Only tipped 16%

Parent Cafe
41

<p>

</p>

<p>For starters, there is absolutely NOTHING the restaurants can do about this. They cannot “get together” and do anything about setting a standard. All they can do is to set a “fixed” service charge on group settings. And, the reality is that the waiters would probably complain about that percentage because they are expecting … MORE. </p>

<p>If the restaurants owners and operators wanted to change by getting together, they should adopt a system that stops their ludicrous practices to transfer their obligations to both patrons and staff. They hire people at an insulting wage level, but sell the idea that patrons willl be generous enough to make the job a very high paying one, especially based on the skills required. Regardless of the mechanisms used by the restaurants, the customer is the one paying. It should be simpler to have a system that forces the restaurants to pay reasonable wages to their staff and HOPE that the restaurant is successful enough to cover those wages through a fixed service charge. </p>

<p>The 15 percent versus 18/19 percent comes mostly from a discussion about tipping on the taxed or not taxed amount. Despite the best efforts and guilt attempts through of some --which are obviously people with a family member earning tips-- there is absolutely nothing that makes a tip of 15 percent less than acceptable AND generous.</p>

42

<p>

</p>

<p>Well, that is the issue that everyone seems happy to dance around and avoid addressing: what is the definition of a “decent” living by waiting tables?</p>

<p>Who much should a part-time waiter earn for a 4 to 6 hours shift at a Applebee’s? At a fancy steakhouse? How much should a bartender earn for working a Saturday night at a fancy club? </p>

<p>We always are fed the sob stories of starving waiters (and other service providers such as hairdressers) but how do those jobs that are rarely full-time compare to people who have to work at places like WalMart or in construction? How do paychecks compare for waiters who work 6 hours to a Starbucks “partner” who spends the same type building lattes? </p>

<p>The reality is that waiting tables or serving drinks is one of the most lucrative activities on a hourly basis that is available to younger people. And by a far margin!</p>

43

<p>So Xiggi, where did you wait tables?</p>

44

<p>I agree with Xiggi on all counts. My daughter’s “resume” job is working with a clinical psychologist. Her “money” job is working as a bartender at a fashionable downtown restaurant. </p>

<p>I enjoyed traveling in Europe where service was included in the cost of meals, and tipping was not expected beyond change.</p>

<p>Of course, I’m so old I can remember when a “standard” tip was 10%.</p>

45

<p>

</p>

<p>Me too…and I wish that was the way it was here. I will say…it was hard for me to leave those restaurants where we got terrific service without leaving a tip.</p>

46

<p>I remember as a youth when we didn’t need to tip, we NEVER went out to eat…</p>

47

<p>

</p>

<p>Is that a veiled way to state that only waiters (or parents of waiters) have a valid opinion on the subject? Fwiw, I have never played a down in the NCAA or the NFL, never played in the Major Leagues, and never played pro basketball, but I have plenty of opinions about the salaries of the players. And that places me on par with millions of fans. And, as we know, the basketball divas also wanted more money for the same work. ;)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Thumper, if it was hard, why … did you not leave an extra few Euros? Please not I am criticizing your decision to add or not add, but nothing was precluding you to do so IF you felt the service was beyond the regular. In the meantime, is it not great for BOTH the waiter and the patron to know the expectations upfront? Of course, a bad waiter might earn just as much as a great one, but you’d have to trust the owners to encourage great waiters. </p>

<p>Except for my point that 15% is an adequate tip (that can be complemented at will) do we really disagree? Again, I would prefer a clearly spelled charge and would prefer the “system” to prevent abusive practices.</p>

48

<p>

</p>

<p>And why is the “system” not applicable to restaurants in the first place? There already is a system in place to help protect against abuse, but restaurants are allowed to abuse their employees by paying them so much less than minimum wage…</p>

49

<p>Hops_Scout, was it not obvious that my point was that I would prefer a clearly spelled charge (posted by restaurants) and that I would prefer the (restaurants to be forced to adopt a) “system” to prevent abusive practices?</p>

<p>If you opine that restaurants should have the full responsibility to pay their employees wages that are beyond the minimum legal, I am not sure where we disagree.</p>

50

<p>“For starters, there is absolutely NOTHING the restaurants can do about this. They cannot “get together” and do anything about setting a standard”</p>

<p>I think they can in San Francisco.</p>

<p><a href=“http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/7_on_your_side&id=6109192[/url]”>http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/7_on_your_side&id=6109192&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There is a 25 percent tax for parking in a garage.
<a href=“http://www.vtpi.org/parking_tax.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vtpi.org/parking_tax.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

51

<p>Really, I’m just confused I guess. $2/hr base pay. $30/table (probably low end), 3-4 tables/hour (call it $100 total, again low end), 15% = $15/hr + $2. $17/hr as a waiter.
Maybe it depends on your part of the country.</p>

52

<p>gouf78, tips are frequently divided up, with a share for the various other personnel involved in the food service (busboy, bartender, host/hostess, etc.) The waiter doesn’t get it all. In some restaurants everyone on site shares in the tips.</p>

53

<p>Actually we did leave a small tip everywhere in Europe, and in South Africa as well…we were told that the “change” could be left so that is what we left. It was usually 10% or a tad less.</p>

<p>I personally think that everyone should wait tables at least for a short time in their lives. It really gives an appreciation for the hard work that this job is. Both of my kids have done so. One still does. Doing a job where you have to be “on” for the public is not a bad thing…and (in the U.S.) where your final pay may depend on your good gracious service. </p>

<p>Of course anyone can express an opinion about any job. I personally think sports folks are excessively overpaid. But it’s the law of supply and demand I guess…folks are willing to pay the exhorbitant prices of tickets for these events to support the high pay of these athletes. </p>

<p>But then I also think that many executives get ridiculously high salaries and bonuses too.</p>

<p>Then I look at customer service folks like wait staff and have to wonder…why don’t they deserve to be compensated better?</p>

54

<p>The way I remember tip sharing (it’s been almost 20 years since I’ve worked in a restaurant, and I wasn’t a server), is that servers give back a portion of their nightly tips for the bus boys and bartenders. I’m not exactly sure what it was, but I’m assuming it was probably 10-15%. Servers, in the restaurant I worked at, did not give back all of their tips at the end of the night into one “pool” to be divided up.</p>

<p>At a restaurant, there is probably only 1 bartender and 1 or 2 bus boys, and perhaps a “food runner” (waiter assistant) working on a given night. 6 or 7 waiters giving back 10-15% to the other 3 or 4 workers is how it usually worked.</p>

55

<p>I did wait tables in college 20+ years ago. It was not a super nice restaurant. I never made less than $12-$15 an hour at that job in tips. We had to declare 12%. </p>

<p>We didn’t share our tips, because we did our own bussing and their weren’t any bartenders. </p>

<p>It was a horrible job on one level - exhausting and crazy hours, but the money was good and helped me pay my way through college.</p>

<p>I do get annoyed at some restaurants with the cost of the meals/drinks. I went out to eat the lunch the other day with some friends - we had lunch. Not an upscale place, but the prices were more expensive than we thought it would be. There were 6 of us, most of us had water, but we did order an inexpensive dessert. The bill was $125 with tax, which was $25 tip. We weren’t there for more than an hour and the server wasn’t great. That server had two or three more tables in our section. </p>

<p>It is a good wage paying job compared to many that college student/part time students can perform.</p>

56

<p>As has been said above, the customer pays in the long run, no matter how it is done. Either the customer is left to discern his own tip contribution, it is fixed by the restaurant, or the restaurant shifts its increased base salary costs back to the customer via increased meal prices. I think wait staff should have a better base pay, but I also think there is nothing wrong with the quality of their work being rewarded by the customer in the quantity of the tip. After all, isnt that what the tip is supposed to be for?</p>

57

<p>

</p>

<p>Thumper, here we go again. What is YOUR definition of deserving to be compensated … better. As I wrote before, what is the EXPECTATION for a server to earn in a four to six hours shift? How much do YOU think a server should take home after working from say 5 pm to 11pm on a Thursday night? With your kids in the “business” I believe you have several points of reference. </p>

<p>Your children embraced the profession (on a temporary basis, I presume) for very good reasons. Wasn’t one of them that waiting tables offers more flexible hours and a MUCH BETTER pay than most jobs? On this issue, how would explain that PhD students who can make 20-25 dollars per hour on campus jobs do seek working at a restaurant? The answer is that they can make a lot more! </p>

<p>Fwiw, I think we will keep going in circles on this issue. And there is no need for us to agree on it. :)</p>

58

<p>

</p>

<p>Sure, but then if a customer receives “adequate” service a customer shouldn’t be expected to pay 15-20% MORE than the cost of the meal. If it’s good service and the customer wants to, go for it. But the expectation of a minimum percentage tip is nuts…</p>

59

<p>^^ That would be nice if we didn’t have to, but that is the standard, to tip on your meal.</p>

<p>Let’s say you come into my section at one of my restaurants (one requires me to tip out, the other doesn’t) and you and your SO order an appetizer, two entrees, and a bottle of wine. That check would come out to be around $75-85. You feel that you shouldn’t pay for whatever reason (don’t believe in tipping, you’re European, etc.) </p>

<p>Well guess what, I just LOST $2.75 waiting on you. As in not only did I make no money, I have to pay to wait on your every whimsical need (Not saying that you’re a difficult customer, but the bad tippers usually are). My restaurant automatically deducts 3% of my sales to be tipped out to bussers, bartenders and hostesses. I had a 6 top come in one day, order $110 worth of food and drinks (no alcohol), which is a fairly average check. They left $4. FOUR DOLLARS. I only made $.50 to wait on them hand and foot (and they did run me, so many coke/sweet tea refills) and I gave them perfect service. Luckily they paid their tip on credit card, because if they had paid in cash, the computer at my store would have required me to declare a 10% tip.</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, waiting tables can be a (relatively) lucrative job. I’ve graduated college and am applying to grad schools, but waiting tables pays more than jobs that my friends have requiring their respective degrees. </p>

<p>There is a reason that this industry is higher paying though, than say most minimum wage jobs. It is VERY draining, both physically and emotionally. I’ve taken orders literally dripping in sweat, because I’ve had to move so fast to get everything done I needed to do. There is a term in restaurant lingo “in the weeds” that means that you are really busy because, say for instance, you just got two tables at once and your other table wants to cash out while the soda station is out of ice. Then your tables ask you the most inane questions possible, while you’re staring at them in disbelief when the last person to order at a table what soups you have today, when you only told everyone else individually because no one is listening to you. Or my favorite “I’d like my steak cooked medium rare or well done.” Really, that happened. </p>

<p>I agree with thumper in that everyone should have to go through a rite of passage of waiting tables at some point in their lives. My skin is VERY thick now.</p>

60

<p>I agree with erhswimming, as I waited tables for a long time. It was great money, hard work, at low end restaurant. Alot of work for people who’d leave you a buck or nothing at all (the church crowd…I’d be thrilled when they left me a buck because I knew it just about killed them to leave a penny).</p>

<p>But when it comes to leaving massive tips at a high end restaurant…man, I think some of you are completely insane, really. What kind of unbelieveably spectacular service will you get if you have to tip $50 for one table? Why should you tip 20% because you bought an expensive bottle of wine. My God, do they come home and clean your house for that too?</p>

<p>15% on an expensive bill, with a pricey drink order is perfectly fine. Or less if you feel it wasn’t warranted. Unless you required the server to spend hours entertaining you. Really, what do they do that deserves so much more money at an expensive restaurant, than they would at a cheap one? Bring your food out, take your order, pick up your plate and bring you the drinks. Bartenders make their own tips, hostesses rarely get tips and usually wait staff share some with the busboys. I don’t know if this has changed, but we were taxed on 8% of our food sales (expected tips), unless you kept a tip log.</p>

<p>I often tip a far higher percentage on an inexpensive meal, if they were very good or took alot of trouble. But to be throwing money at a waitperson for average service, just because you’re at a pricey restaurant or had an expensive bottle of wine…was it that much harder for them to open up th $60 bottle of wine than if you’d ordered a $15 one?</p>

<p>Save your money, leave decent tips and give your extra to a food bank if you feel guilty.</p>