<p>All this tip talk made me actually go and read what the current etiquette suggests. It’s definitely pre-tax, not post tax. </p>
<p>That 120 bill with a $35 tip was extremely generous. I doubt I would have ever, ever been that generous (and I am often very generous with tipping). That’s over 35% tip, if you count on pre-tax!</p>
<p>I think a tip should be just that- a bonus for effort and service. And if a large table takes more effort, they should receive a tip accordingly. That said, I again feel that the establishment should provide a more reasonable base hourly rate. Currently that doesn’t seem to be the case, which is why, adfter reading several reports of former wait staff and family of wait staff on this thread, I was careful to tip nicely at lunch yesterday.</p>
<p>Perhaps, Jym. </p>
<p>But what is clear from the account of the waiter is HOW such people have grown into reacting to large tables and differently to the NICE people at the 35 dollar tip table. Should we perhaps consider the position of the people at the large table. From the mouth of the waiter, he and his companion seemed to have served better tables while resenting to bring additional beverages. How can TWO waiters be unable to attend a table with an average ticket of about ten dollars. And they were demanding? Sounds like the typical waiter bull! </p>
<p>Regardless of the service, it is borderline insulting to report the tip of 17 dollars as inadequate. Here is a reality: waiters would be mostly unhappy with base salaries of minimum wages and fixed charges of 15% to balance the credit of the base wages. They DO expect a LOT more. The attitude regarding the 35 dollars tip is telling. A story of misplaced entitlement. </p>
<p>A fixed 15 percent service charge would be most welcome! That should be the available revenue for restaurants to compensate THEIR staff at a reasonable level. Seems like some believe that it should be minimum wages PLUS all the tips. That is entirely ludicrous.</p>
<p>I don’t think we disagree, xig. A gratuity should, IMO, be offered as acknowledgement of the quality of the service. What has happened, or so it seems, is that the gratuity has become, given the frequently low, below-minimum-wage base pay offered to wait staff in many states (some states do require minimum wage) the majority of wait staff’s pay, with the cost shifting from the employer to the customer. I agree that either the restaurants should all be required to pay at least minimum wage, or a reasonable autograt should be added to the bill, and if a customer wants to tip more, that is their discretion. But as I said above, if the restaurants are required to pay a higher base pay, all they will do is cost shift to the customer by increasing their menu prices. </p>
<p>Some may feel that an autograt might effect the quality of the service. I dont know if this is true or not. I would prefer the european model, but don’t see that changing in the US anytime soon.</p>
<p>I’d also like to get away from the haggling way of buying a car, but that didn’t work too well for Saturn and I don’t see that industry changing anytime soon either. But I digress…</p>
<p>I also happen to think that there should be a better way of tracking the tips and other cash transactions so that emloyees pay taxes on their tips and wages. But thats probably a topic for another thread.</p>
<p>When I waited tables, I did it because I actually could make quite a bit more than a normal part time job. It did help me partly pay my way through school. Even though I got well below less than minimum in terms of a base pay - I want to say it was around $2.50 an hour - my tips brought it up to between 10-15 an hour. I always made more money in the smoking sections, too. I don’t remember what true minimum was in those days, but I had left my administrative assistant job to take the wait job, because I knew I could bring in more money. I had to declare on 12% and it was never a problem for me. </p>
<p>There were several people I worked with at the restaurant who were out of college but “making too much money” to actually go into their chosen profession. </p>
<p>A tip for service should be just that, a tip because the server helped make our meal more enjoyable by being attentive and helpful in taking our orders and bringing our food - but we know that food servers rely on tips so we play this game. The question is - what is fair and reasonable?</p>
<p>In San Francisco, current minimum wage was just raised to $10.25/hr. California is one of a few states that does not give a tip credit when setting the wage. So the base wage in SF is now $10.25. This in addition to the required health care fee brings the employers cost to about $13.00/hr in sf. I think the rest of CA has a minimum wage somewhere around $8.75. So, even without tips our waitstaff makes what every other minimum wage worker makes. The higher costs are already passed on to the consumer and when adding the expected minimum 18% on top of these costs it makes one think before going out to dinner.</p>
<p>IMHO…tipping should be based not primarily on the cost of the meal but on the time and effort required to make the experience a pleasant one. For example…bringing me a $100.00 bottle of wine and pouring two partial glasses takes way less effort than refilling a $3.00 soda for the entire evening. The lobster and steak plate takes much less effort to deliver than the entree plus second entree for dinner plus special request side salad plus coffee. Yet, the lobster plate would rate a higher $$ tip than all the separate plates combined. </p>
<p>I’ve posted this before…here it goes again…our favorite family diner will run us about $60.00 for our family of 4. This includes salads, shakes, main meal, and wine or soda. We usually stay for at least an hour since they have the Trivial Pursuit cards on the tables and they are a hoot. The other local family owned upper end place will run us about $150.00 for two (if we keep an eye on alcohol costs) and frankly requires much less work on behalf of the servers. So, by common convention I should be leaving $12.00 at the diner and $30.00 at the higher end. It makes no sense.</p>
<p>D1 was surprised when people asked to only pay for what they ate in college. She usually got stuck in collecting money from everyone and paying the waiter (maybe because of her major), and most people would conveniently forget about tax or tip. So she came up with a rule, everyone could pay for their own food, but she would figure out total tax/tip and divide it between everyone. Her rational was even if someone only had a cucumber role, he/she enjoyed the service like everyone else. As far as tax, no one is good at figuring out what’s 8.75% of $14.25 vs $8.55.</p>
<p>I have found the times when people don’t pony up their share is when you’re in a group of young people, seniors, or groups where people don’t know each other well. Like sports or school events. If you are in a large group of good friends or family (though it depends upon the family, somehow I always seem to end up with the bill), they will put in enough.</p>
<p>We were the parent reps for a soccer team one season. Last time we ever did that. We were instructed to make sure that nobody had to pay up more than a set amount for the end of season party, and to have it at a certain place. We organized the entire thing, and during the lunch, people just started ordering extra pizzas and drinks like there was no tomorrow (even though we had already pre-ordered it all). At the end of it, they all happily left us with a $200 extra bill. I don’t think it was purposeful, as most were quite wealthy, but just unthinking. One kind person insisted on donating an additional $20, as they knew the drill. So now after those sort of events, I always give some extra to the arranger, as they always end up getting stuck.</p>
<p>Yes, busdriver, I think you are right. I don’t know about the seniors, but a bunch of school kids can leave you standing with a big balance and not enough money in the pool. That may have been the situation the Landshark was in. I was thinking of lunch with my good friends, middle-age women, when we always end up with plenty of money to leave a giant tip.</p>
<p>Kids don’t think. If they did, they’d be grownups. :-)</p>
<p>Yes, Busdriver and Skyhook - that makes sense.</p>
<p>We never have this trouble with adults or family members coming up with their share. It’s been the sports teams and young people, mostly. </p>
<p>That soccer team situation sounds like a disaster, busdriver. I bet nobody ever volunteers twice for that position!</p>
<p>You’re right about that, landshark! We never volunteered for any other parental organizational duties again (except for rummage sales). Let some other type A mom or dad take care of those jobs, us B+ personalities aren’t cut out for it.</p>
<p>And when I’m thinking about the seniors not coming up with enough money, that is definitely a generalization. There are very generous and thoughtful seniors. But there are some extremely frugal ones, and often for good reason. When you’re living on a pension without much extra, and prices keep going up, you keep your eye on your wallet. I rarely expected more than a $1 tip from senior ladies, and was happy to get that.</p>
<p>And one thing about the school kids, you never know. But I’m sure some only think about what the cost of their meal was, and not all the extras. My son goes out with a big group after every musical, and they are the nicest group of kids, and very generous (with their parents credit card). The last time, he said the waitress was so rude and snarly, and even though they were overly polite and undemanding, and planned on leaving a big tip, she was just cranky. It just seems the best policy to treat everyone with respect (whether you’re the waitress or the diner), at least until they give you reason not to.</p>
<p>Lots of ways to “eat out” and not have to worry about tips. Go to church or community suppers, or go to cafeteria style restaurants or buffets.</p>
<p>xiggi,</p>
<p>You seem to be reading into my post way too much.</p>
<p>I said I provide excellent service to all my tables. I provided excellent service to that ten top. The $17 was appropriate for them to give me, as that was ~15%. They were not given the gratuity in that bill, because that restaurant does not allow that, no matter how big the party. We certainly didn’t have a pretentious attitude when we were serving this table (and it was mostly me, I took both the drink and food orders in their entirety). I’m not sure where in my post I implied a sense of entitlement that is beyond the scope of my job. </p>
<p>All I was trying to point out in that post you quoted was that it can be very odd what amounts of service garner a certain amount of tips.</p>