I haven’t decided. DS2 was good friends with someone caught up in this. Kind of devastated and had no idea what was done on their behalf.
I am asking relevance. Of course it is a perfect system - anything can be made perfect if people are shut off from asking questions with “like it or leave it, buddy.” But this “shut up and go elsewhere” attitude seems counter to the very point the colleges love to justify their astronomical price tag: critical thinking. Thou shalt never use what you learn in the classroom on sensitive issues outside?
However scandalous, the operation college blues was not some unthinkable acts of transgression committed by unspeakable thugs. The perpetrating parents themseves seem the very finest products of the system, if judged by where they currently belong in our social caste. The slap-on-the-wrist sentencing (2 weeks?) bespeaks this - they simply went a bit too far. Perhaps getting caught was their biggest sin.
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I liked it. It was pretty interesting.
I thought it was interesting. I think John Vandemoer’s story sums up what goes on at colleges. Coaches are under a lot of pressure to fundraise. The film implied that if a donation is high enough then admissions will take note. Singer’s checks just weren’t high enough for back door access. I don’t believe Rick dreamt up this type of fraud recently though. There are recordings of Singer where he implies he’s been doing things like this for nearly 25 years.
I think colleges knew what was happening. The athletic director at Stanford knew Singer and didn’t seem to want to know details about why the money was given. Several former college presidents and admission deans (including 2 from Stanford) served on an advisory board (created by Singer in ~2004), so I suspect Singer knew more people on campus than just the Athletic Director. Stanford’s buildings are card access yet he was able to bypass all security and stroll directly into John’s office the first time they met. Their security is either really bad or someone he knew let him in.
I think that after everyone who’s been charged has been sentenced or had their trial then Singer will be sentenced too, but I doubt he’ll get much time. I don’t think fines or a few weeks in (probably some cushy) jail matters to those people, but I think the negative publicity does. And I’m glad to see that the deals are a matter of public record. People are blatantly cheating on standardized tests. Colleges are taking money in exchange for acceptances. Not that it’s a surprise, but at least it’s a matter of public record. The last line of the film pretty much sums up the entire process. The back door is still open. I think that’s true. And while I think it’s important to focus on affordability I think we need to weed out corruption when we can.
I do feel badly for the students, but I think a lot of them knew what was happening. Even if they didn’t, if their application was falsified I think they should be expelled. If your parent steals a car and gives it to you for your birthday you don’t get to keep it just because you didn’t know it was stolen. But I think they should be able to keep the credits for the work they completed.
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I just watched it.
My realization was that people, in most professions, uncover opportunities to beat the system - on all sides and in many ways. 99.9% of the people think for a minute - and walk away saying - not for me.
The .1% are truly criminals.
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Wonder what are the percentage of students who get extra time on the standardized tests that don’t really need it? Even at our small rural hs, MULTIPLE kids were talking about who to go see in town in order to be diagnosed with “test anxiety” in order to be given more time for the ACT/SAT. These were kids that were not even applying to T100 schools, but just because everyone else is doing it, they feel they need to as well or they would feel they were not keeping up with their peers. Supposedly it is so common it is not even questioned & those who don’t get the extra time are def the minority. It is one of those things that it is not politically correct to question and so it balloons. My kid could have done easily 1-2 points better with extra time on ACT (35-36 rather than 34), but trying to teach honesty. In fact, the local test prep people advise kids to take the practice tests timed vs untimed to see if they would “benefit” from the extra time. However, at T20 schools, sometimes the smallest thing truly does make a difference in admittance and so have to wonder when you see the STATS of who does & doesn’t get admitted.
Wonder what this system is breeding for future leaders of industry, health care & our nation. We are looking the other way over “small” bits of unethical behavior, but what happens is then the kid learns if they can get away with something “small”, then they feel it is OK to push it to the next level. It is a series of rationalizing behavior that follows into adulthood.
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It is amazing to me that schools with such large endowments put pressure annually on coaches to fund raise.
This was a problem of their own making. Stanford had to know.
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Sports at Stanford are self funding which probably puts more pressure on the athletic directors. I think that’s a better approach than using student fees, but increased oversight is needed.
One thing I do not understand: If a student gets extra time on the standardized tests and does well, do they then get extra time on every test at university, and extra time to do their homework? Do they get extra time in class?
At least in my experience (which was a long time ago) it is not as if you show up at Stanford and suddenly everything become slow paced and easy.
Yes they get extra time at their university, if they register with the Office of Disabilities and provide the required documentation. Some may get extensions, extra time, even reduced course load.
Honestly, there are many students who need the accommodations to be able to perform at the level they are capable of. The concept of leveling the playing field is hard for many to understand.
Schools like Stanford and Harvard provide these same accommodations to students.
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However, it may not be truly level. If the true rate of learning disabilities that require extra time accommodations is in the 30% range found at some high SES high schools, but the overall rate of extra time accommodations is something like 3%, that means that many students who should get extra time accommodations but do not happen to grow up in high SES families in the know about such things are not going to be on a level playing field.
I have a gifted kid and another gifted kid with a learning disability, documented, tested in elementary school (20+ years ago, before this was all trendy.) Kid #1 finished all standardized tests before time was up and scored well, IIR 1350-1400 SAT back when that was great, but not incredible. Kid #1, with double the time, scored almost identically. The extra time did not provide any bump beyond showing their intelligence, so it did not bump to 1500-1600 or anything. This is without test prep classes and strategies, just taking the test, what we used to think of as normally.
Kid #2 got into great schools and went to a highly ranked public university; there was no adjustment for disability thereafter. At the public uni it was not about (as in K-12) not testing to your potential, it was only offered if you tested below average. For example, if your IQ is 150, but you test at 120 without extra time because of an LD, then you are testing a couple of standard deviations below your brain power, so you got extra time in K-12. But one would need to test at something like the equivalent of 80 IQ to have received extra time or services at that university. Which would likely mean a serious physical limitation in getting the answers on paper. I do think private universities likely have more leeway to craft their LD standards.
My kid understood that and did fine, did not shine as a star, but did fine. A few more B+/A- grades than would have happened with extra time, but ok. Scores on standardized tests for grad school also were quite average rather than excellent, but kid made it through highly competitive graduate school and their professions rigorous and repeated standardized tests, just as through university, by accepting that they would always test average at best, and adjusting whatever they could in real life to be successful at doing real life things, not fake test things. LORs were helpful.
In our personal experience, extra time was not needed by the kid without an LD, I don’t know, perhaps with all the test strategy classes, kid #1 could have bumped the score up? Extra time, though, made all the difference to kid #2 in obtaining an SAT score than reflected their innate ability versus testing ability. I remain firmly convinced kid #2 would not have gotten into competitive highly ranked universities without the SAT score, which would have affected the rest of their life choices.
The answer doesn’t lie in resistance to those who truly need the accommodations, getting them.
Something needs to be done about those who are cheating (though in our experience it was hard to get accommodations for standardized tests, but we were in a low SES area).
Something needs to be done to make sure that schools are helping students with the process of applying for accommodations when parents don’t have the knowledge or time to do it.
Public schools will do evaluations and as I remember, in our state, will pay for one private but in general, neuropsych. evaluations are expensive and insurance companies need to do more.
However, those who really need accommodations and are getting them at present should not be the objects of resentment but instead, understanding.
The problem is, so many kids (especially those who go the private test prep route) are getting the extra time that it almost is to the point that it would be more fair just to increase the time allowed to take the test for everyone, IMO.
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All truly excellent points. I, for one, should thank my grandparents and great grandparents every minute of every day for having bravely boarded those ships to move to the US some 100 years ago, before the very fine people of Europe could so generously relieve them of their possessions (not that they had anything) and the pesky burden of being alive.
Our state test (MCAS) had unlimited time. One of mine would end up alone in the office finishing while everyone else returned to class 
Another one of mine had some medical tasks to do during testing and there was no deficit in terms of time.
I think removing time limits is a great solution.
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Extra time keeps things fair for people who are less-abled, If everyone got the time, that would be equally unfair to giving those students with need no extra time at all.
Rewarding people with extra time because some people abuse the system does not make sense to me.
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@michaelcollege I was assuming the more-abled would leave early, as happened with our state MCAS. But you may have a point.
I have to disagree that the current system & abuse of the extra time( by a significant number of students) as currently exists is “fair”. If extra time is given to all, then you can use it if you want but don’t need to if you don’t. How is that unfair to those who take the extra time? They get the extra time. What is the purpose of the test, is it to see if you can get the correct answer - or is it to see HOW FAST you can get the correct answer. I feel it is to see if you are able to get the correct answer, regardless of how quickly you do so (within reason- not talking taking days). If it is to see how well you can perform under pressure, then how is it fair that some get extra time & others don’t. Especially if some who are getting the extra time are doing so because their getting it through the “side door” method. Either way - likely irrelevant as test optional will be new norm.
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I decided to watch. It was better than I expected, but I came in with really low expectations. I would’ve watched immediately if I knew it starred Matthew Modine. I used to have such a crush on him.
I was totally enthralled with John Vandemoer’s lawyer. His voice reminded me of Jack Webb from Dragnet.
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