Opinions on UCSF Tetrad, UC Berkeley MCB, Stanford Biology

<p>minky: Yar, I’m sure some of us have probably interviewed together!I’m with you for most of your points. And you’re right, the website doesn’t have much information regarding the program either, while Stanford/Berkeley gave a pretty in-depth pamphlet during the interviews. </p>

<p>I really like that one of the classes during a past “bootcamp” at UCSF was on how to build a microscope from scratch. That seems like the kind of research culture that I’d like to be a part of. </p>

<p>krypton: How are the talks at UCSF? Are there frequent seminars and such from visiting guests and what not?</p>

<p>gclooney: Ceramics! Haha, that’d be interesting.</p>

<p>Heh, hardly a day goes by when there isn’t a seminar going on somewhere on campus:
[UCSF</a> Seminars & Retreats](<a href=“http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/seminars.html]UCSF”>http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/seminars.html)
[UCSF</a> Seminars & Retreats](<a href=“http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/seminars_MB.html]UCSF”>http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/seminars_MB.html)</p>

<p>In addition to those resources, we get a weekly e-mail listing all upcoming events. Two things of interest to Tetrad students in particular:

  1. There is a committee of Tetrad students that selects, invites, and hosts some of the speakers.
  2. First-years get free lunch every week with the Tuesday speaker. :P</p>

<p>Sweet deal, thanks!</p>

<p>Sorry if this is a silly question, but does anyone know how many rotations you’re expected to/can take the first year? I can’t see to find it anywhere.</p>

<p>Three are required (Fall, Winter, and Spring quarters). Pretty frequently, people will do a fourth, either the summer before or after the first year.</p>

<p>This is not just for UCSF, by the way. This is essentially the case for all peer biology PhD programs (only MIT comes to mind as having a unique rotation format).</p>

<p>Minkyboodle: I was in synthetic biology for a long time, so I can comment a bit. It might come down to what your interests are…imo UCSF is stronger for parts, while UCB is stronger in systems/chassis/metabolic engineering. Theory is more of a tossup; it’s hard to argue with the sheer size of Berkeley in mathematical and computational biology, but if you’re coming at it from a mostly-bio perspective (which I assume you are if you’re in Tetrad/MCB), there’s some cool stuff happening at UCSF in small-network dynamics. (This is what I’m going for; I can blather on about this at request, but will spare you for now.)</p>

<p>As for SynBERC, the fact that it’s headed at UCB doesn’t mean much in practice. There are two conferences a year, one of which is hosted in the head’s office building (yeah…you know how big his lab is, right?) and the other one is at MIT. I wouldn’t decide based on that.</p>

<p>Also, in UCB’s defense, are you sure you need a med school? It’s convenient if you want human samples, but that’s very rare in synbio - at best, you might have a mouse or two. Specifically, I’m pretty sure that none of the UCSF labs are doing work that could not be done at UCB, at least not due to a lack of clinical collaborators.</p>

<p>Good luck. I know deciding is hard…honestly, I’m a little grateful I didn’t get in to my co-first choice.</p>

<p>As for rent, I’ve been ■■■■■■■■ Craigslist for the UCSF area. For my relatively modest standard of living (one small bedroom in a 3-6BR house, cat friendly) it looks like rent has an east-west gradient…west side next to UCSF Mission Bay $875/mo, midtown $800/mo, near Parnassus shuttle $750/mo, way out east maybe down to $650/mo. South on the light rail is $700/mo, but I’ve heard it’s a little scary after dark. Berkeley is cheaper, but I don’t think by much - housing is brutal anywhere in the Bay Area.</p>

<p>turkeylurkey: Yeah, I’m a fan of the hands-on classes too. It seems like they put a lot of effort into making sure people get the skills they need - lab skills, presentation skills, and so on. I understand the desire to get on with it and go straight to work, but it’s still nice.</p>

<p>For iPQB, they were talking about starting a lab class in network dynamics, where your group would pick a pathway, stick some reporters on it, and do single-cell quantitation to figure out how it works. Also, apparently they have a module where they give you a vial of yeast killed in some creative way, and you have to figure out what happened to it (using microarrays, proteomics, etc). My inner child is a total geek…this makes me happy.</p>

<p>Minkyboodle - </p>

<p>I’m a UCSF tetrad student who lives waaaay out of SF (on the Peninsula, about 20-25 miles south of SF). I have no problems living far away at all. Actually, I like the separation between my professional and personal life. There is pretty decent public transportation into the city, and the mission bay campus is very close to the terminal caltrain station, so it really doesn’t take long to get there (it’s a 25 minute train ride for me, during which I can read, sleep, whatever).</p>

<p>I have also never experienced any cut-throatness at UCSF. All of us students are pretty close-knit.</p>

<p>If you have any other specific questions about UCSF, feel free to send me a PM. Good luck in making a decision! I don’t think you can really go wrong either way :-)</p>

<p>How do you find the classes that you have to take? It appears that there are 4 “core” classes in Tetrad at least: macromolecules, molecular genetics, bio regulatory mechanisms, and cell bio. In addition to this, I guess there are 2 mini-courses that you can take during the spring semester. Do you feel like these classes are enough in terms of providing additional framework/background? For comparison, the Stanford home program I’d be in would have 8 required classes, 3 of would be electives of my choosing. While the Tetrad classes feels like they would be more hands on, especially the mini-courses, I feel like Stanford would offer more in the way of core knowledge.</p>

<p>Additionally, how long is “boot camp” at Tetrad? Like 2 weeks or so?</p>

<p>Thanks for the responses - they have been helpful.</p>

<p>dd2200: I hadn’t even thought of taking the caltrain - that does sounds like a nice option. Do you walk from the caltrain station to campus?</p>

<p>blueroses: I studied a lot of math and physics in my undergrad and that is a major interest of mine. I decided Tetrad over iPQB because I want a strong foundation in biology/genetics. I’d love to get involved with the small-network dynamics work going on at UCSF and would like to hear any info you have about it. In some ways I wish I had applied to iPQB instead so I could do the complex biological systems track. You’re right about not needing a medical center for what I want to do. And knowing SynBERC isn’t really ‘active’ most of the year is helpful also. That iPQB class in network dynamics sounds awesome - I hope they make it a real class.</p>

<p>krypton: You mention that there is a speaker every Tuesday. I hadn’t heard of this event before. Could you tell me some about it?</p>

<p>minkyboodle: Just to confirm, you have to mail in your decision to Tetrad via snail mail, correct? There is no online decisions or anything? Kind of a bummer, as it eliminates a few days of procrastination on the decision :P</p>

<p>

Does your online application account not have a place to confirm your intent to enroll (a link on the left like “Confirm Enrollment” or something)? I remember having that last year.</p>

<p>You might still have to snail mail or fax the detailed form listing what other schools accepted you, which ones you’re turning down, etc., though.</p>

<p>

It’s one week. Last year, ours went from Sep. 1st (Wednesday) to Sep. 7th (Tuesday). This included working over the weekend to build our spectrophotometer microscopes.</p>

<p>

Sure! Most UCSF departments have a weekly seminar where an invited speaker from some other institution comes to talk about the research in his or her lab. Tuesday afternoons is the Biochemistry & Biophysics department’s seminar. You can view the list of speakers we’ve had so far this school year at [Biochemistry</a> 2010 Seminars](<a href=“http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/B&B_seminars10.html]Biochemistry”>http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/B&B_seminars10.html) and [Biochemistry</a> 2011 Seminars](<a href=“http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/B&B_seminars11.html]Biochemistry”>http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/B&B_seminars11.html). On the same day as their talk, the speakers are invited to have catered lunch with the Tetrad first-years.</p>

<p>You can find more information on the other weekly Mission Bay seminars (e.g., the ones hosted by iPQB and the Helen Diller Cancer Center) at [UCSF</a> Seminars & Retreats](<a href=“http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/seminars.html]UCSF”>http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/seminars.html) and [UCSF</a> Seminars & Retreats](<a href=“http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/seminars_MB.html]UCSF”>http://biochemistry.ucsf.edu/seminars_MB.html).</p>

<p>Huh, you’re right! I received a stamped envelope and physical decision letter form, so I assumed that I would have to mail it in. Sweet, this gives me until the weekend to think it over!</p>

<p>

I felt UCSF’s courses were comprehensive. The topics that are covered, from cell cycle in Cell Biology to splicing in Bioreg, may be basic tenets of biology, but the instructors are professors who actively research these areas, so you learn about the topics in great detail. I thought I would not get much out of Cell Bio and Bioreg because I had already extensively studied equivalent subjects in undergrad, but I still learned quite a lot from the Tetrad classes. The last time I took a genetics course was three years earlier, so much of the material in Genetics was new to me and useful. Likewise, Macromolecules really taught me how to approach biological problems more quantitatively.</p>

<p>By the way, you take three minicourses in the Spring quarter.</p>

<p>Minkyboodle -</p>

<p>Yes, I walk from the caltrain station (it’s 3/4 of a mile). I enjoy the walk though. UCSF does also run a shuttle from the caltrain station to campus if you’d like to ride in or if it’s raining.</p>

<p>I found that the classes were comprehensive enough. Graduate school isn’t supposed to be undergrad. It’s mostly research. The point of the classes is really to get everyone on the same level with the most important tennants of biology. You are always welcome to take additional courses though, even in other programs. </p>

<p>There is also a huge selection of “minicourses” in the third quarter to choose from, and these classes are really fun. They’re much smaller (5-8 people usually) and almost all discussion oriented.</p>

<p>minkyboodle: Okay, one infodump coming up. :-)</p>

<p>You probably know this, but UCSF just got a chunk of $$$ from the NSF for systems and synthetic bio. They are going to hire three fellows in that area.</p>

<p>As for current researchers, Lim has a couple of students doing straight-up computational work, on what he calls a “periodic table of circuits”. This is with Tang and El-Samad; one of these (adaptation circuits) was published in Cell a couple years ago, but there’s similar analyses going on for other behaviors. (Tang is a modeler, and El-Samad is a control theorist; they both have students collaborating with various experimental labs.)</p>

<p>There’s a healthy emphasis on using high-resolution measurement techniques to constrain models - this was a priority for me, because I’m into tools development, and I think this type of approach will be increasingly common/useful. For instance, Tang has a student working with Morgan, doing microfluidic imaging studies and modeling on the cell cycle. Li recently did a time-course study to figure out the regulation points in a biosynthetic pathway - I believe he made fluorescent reporter strains, stimulated the culture, and popped it on a FACS to get induction over time. I also hear the new virologist, Weinberger, uses similar methods.</p>

<p>Also, El-Samad is particularly interested in noise/stochastics, and has some nice projects on this with Walter (unfolded protein response) and Madhani (yeast mating). I met with Madhani on the interview; they did a high-throughput screen, and found a gene that increases noise in a pathway-specific fashion. They chased it to a rather funky phenotype (weird enough to get a purely descriptive paper into a Nature-baby). I don’t think he knows what to make of it, and I don’t either, but it was interesting enough that I might rotate there.</p>

<p>I think you <em>could</em> do that kind of work at Berkeley. Arkin was in the first wave of people to integrate modeling with biological research (he’s a good guy, too), and the Voigt/Salis RBS calculator was one of the things that really pushed me to consider tools as the future of synthetic biology. (And if you want to do pure theory, you have a much wider selection at Berkeley as well.) But I ended up not applying, because I only tried a few schools (last-minute decision to apply…) and I wasn’t sure that there was an intellectual community for systems/synthetic.</p>

<p>What there IS an intellectual community for is Keasling-style synthetic biology. And here’s where I have to lay out my biases a bit. You’ve probably figured out that there are a few quasi-religious debates in synbio…among them is how fast the field is really going to progress. There are the realists/incrementalists (type specimen: Keasling), and there are the optimists (type specimen: Endy). If you’re a realist, you will be interested in simple(-ish) genetic engineering: move this pathway from one critter to another, break out the optimization hacks to boost production, maybe find and domesticate a new part, but you’re working one project at a time. If you’re an optimist, you’re going for universal principles: let’s build this parts library, these CAD tools, and why not try to build some crazy phenotype while we’re at it.</p>

<p>My problem with Keasling-style is that being good at it doesn’t help you very much. The success formula is highly weighted towards persistence and blind luck. Not only does this work directly against my comparative advantage (don’t want to outwork 'em if I can outsmart 'em…), it also makes it harder to get a PhD-level job. Yes, in academia, it’s normal to spend a large chunk of your time doing tasks that could be outsourced to a reasonably smart Golden Retriever. In industry, they aren’t going to pay PhD wages for that - if a couple PhDs and a herd of minions can run a project, then that’s what they will hire.</p>

<p>I went to industry after I graduated (BS Bioengineering); looking at my options, I could go to grad school in synthetic biology, or I could do the same work in industry, with double the salary and much better resources. (Granted, this was before the economy did a swan-dive.) I still think I made the right decision. Now that I’m going back, I am taking a hard look at where I can add value to my skills - if I kept on, and became the best darn genetic engineer in the whole world, I wouldn’t be all that much more valuable than I am right now. So I’m taking a detour; I’m going to go off with the systems people and work on building better output tools.</p>

<p>I’ll still be at SynBERC, though. (I’ve been there awhile…at the last one, somebody asked me if I was applying for faculty positions. Sigh.)</p>

<p>Edit: brainfart. Voigt is at UCSF. I know this, really…</p>

<p>Voigt is currently at UCSF, but is moving to MIT very soon.</p>

<p>Quick question for those that are currently attending UCSF:</p>

<p>So it would be possible to sit-in/take some of the classes listed here?:</p>

<p>[Course</a> Listing For Biological & Medical Informatics](<a href=“http://student.ucsf.edu/gencat/biological_medical_informatics.html]Course”>http://student.ucsf.edu/gencat/biological_medical_informatics.html)</p>

<p>For example, some of the courses that I would be interested in would be:</p>

<p>206 Introduction to Bioinformatics
207 Statistics
209 Statistical Analysis of Microarray Data</p>

<p>

I can’t think of any reason why it wouldn’t be.</p>