Are the high schools with aggressive weed-out policies trying to prepare students for aggressive weed-out environments like pre-medical studies? But not every college-bound student is going to be a pre-med or otherwise going into an aggressive weed-out environment.
This kills me. An 8th grader who isn’t flawless at keeping track of assignments and organizing his day (moving between classes 6? 7? times in a day) gets booted off a track that shuts down multiple opportunities for the next 4 years. I have had this happen to my Ds and seen it happen to many others. It is so profoundly wrong.
Having ranted, I will also say that it doesn’t have to keep your son out of any college or course. One of my Ds got streamed into middle level math in Grade 8 when we moved to the US - b/c in the previous country math was taught in a different order and she simply hadn’t done one unit. We offered to have her take a summer course, but even though she finished the year with a grade in the mid-90s they wouldn’t move her up. Like your son, the result was she couldn’t get to Calc BC by senior year, which meant she couldn’t take AP Physics - or any AP science b/c of other rules. She still got into a very competitive college and is now a physics major taking types of math I have never heard of!
Don’t loose heart- he will be fine. But I get the outrage. These are the same teachers who profess that their profession is all about the children. Ha.
we had a similar problem and asked that our child be tested to be placed. They don’t advertise…and don’t like it, but usually they will administer some sort of placement test to see if he/she fell through the cracks in these types of school systems. I would approach the head of the dept and the GC to see what your further options. I have been advised (and it worked) to push a little.
What if he took honors bio next year and then honors chem and then the AP of whichever one he likes better or does better in? And physics as well, honors, doesn’t have to be AP. Isn’t math and physics more important for engineering than bio or chem?
And isn’t 8th grade a bit early to decide on engineering when he hasn’t had a lot of science and advanced math yet?
We had the exact opposite in our house. Our kid was recommended for accelerated math in 8th grade…and we graciously declined. My husband (who is an engineer, btw) felt a solid foundation in math was far more important than acceleration in the subject. This meant that the highest math our kid could take in HS was honors or calculus.
Somehow she managed to get accepted to the colleges of hr choice. And she matriculates to her number one school where she majored in…engineering. Imagine that? She majored in engineering without HS calculus.
Agree with others.,.this course sequence should be appealed, but it’s not the end of the world if it doesn’t get changed.
Yes. But it is also early, by US standards (as opposed to other countries where tracking is rigid and done early), to permanently lock students out of the more advanced science track because of middle school placement decisions.
The OP is incorrect that being locked out of the more advanced science track will prevent the student from studying engineering in college. However, it is still disadvantageous to no longer have the option of taking the more advanced science track if the student may aim for engineering or a more selective college (regardless of eventual college major).
One important disadvantage here is that a student who takes non-honors science courses is not likely to do as well on SAT Subject Tests in science as one who takes honors courses because the course is less rigorous. And an SAT Subject Test in a science is often required for admission to engineering programs. Self-studying is a possibility, but kids tend not to like the idea.
I would appeal. The worst they can say is no.
@marian there are tons of engineering programs that do NOT require the SAT subject tests…at all…ever.
Our school used to be restrictive many years ago and then a parent brought suit. Now you can override where you are placed and take any class you want.
What does your S want? If he really wants the honors science, I would try to set up a meeting with the department head, guidance counselor, principal etc. Seems that by test scores he should be in the honors class. It sounds like his organizational skills are improving and if need be you can set up a plan to re-mediate issues like late labs going forward (can be as simple as the teacher giving you a schedule of labs and you checking with your S a day or two in advance to be sure that they are done and that he has put them in his science notebook so they can be handed in).
I had a similar situation with my D in math in HS (consistently strong student and misread something on the final exam due to nerves/carelessness (her first final ever and it counted a ton) which put her year end grade one point under the threshold). After taking things through with her teacher and guidance counselor it was agreed to put her in the upper level class (where she did just fine).
FYI, in our district a parent does have the power to override a recommendation of the teachers so see if that is a possibility – I was happier to get their agreement, but I would have overridden it if I had to.
But if he doesn’t get into the honors, he will be fine anyway…maybe just a tad bored.
I have to wonder if this also has to do with how many kids they can put in the class. For example at our high school kids have to meet certain requirements to get into AP classes. However if there is space and then they will let kids in that have a lower GPA/test scores in that subject.
Also we can override for gifted classes however we have to sign a paper saying that is not what the school recommends and if the kid doesn’t do well in the class they still are stuck with it all year regardless of whether they are doing well or not.
So I would find out if they have space for your son and then I would think about whether you believe he will get an A in the honors. If you believe that he will focus and not lose papers then I would go in and ask if you can sign some sort of paper taking complete responsibility for putting him in the class they don’t recommend and agreeing regardless of how he does he will have to stay in that class all year.
Please note though that as a parent who did this with one of my gifted kids it may not work out the way you think it will. DS17 ended up with a 89 in gifted Biology first semester and I’m pretty sure he would have had a A in the regular class… He did get an A second semester but still I wish I hadn’t put him in it.
Oh my. There were a lot of big “rules” about classes in our district that were passed down as gospel from parent to parent and kid to kid… That really weren’t “rules” at all, but more like fables.
- In the long life of your child, whether or not he is in honors bio as a ninth grader will make absolutely no difference at all. Right now it feels like it is huge, but it makes not one whit of difference. I'm sure of it.
- NOT being in honors bio in ninth grade might be a better placement for him. Try to breathe, and think about it as objectively as you can. How might this be a good thing? Make a list of the benefits of not being in honors bio. (Easier transition to high school, where expectations are higher, and kids are expected to take more responsibility for their work than in middle school... Better grades as a freshman... I'm sure you and your child can think of some ways this might be a good thing.)
- If you and your child really want to push for placement in honors bio, go about it politely, but don't take no for an answer. In our district, while there are "rules", teachers make recommendations for the next year's placements based on performance during the present year. They are almost always quite accurate about the best placement, but will change a placement if a parent requests it. (They won't let a kid skip a math sequence, but will allow wiggle room on placement into regular/honors/GT Algebra 2, for example.) Begin by talking with the teacher who he has now, and work your way to the department chairman, and continue up through guidance and the administration.
- Be prepared for your child to struggle (a bit, for a while) if you are successful in pushing an advanced placement. What will you do then? It will not be the teacher's fault. Make a plan of action ahead of time.
My oldest was placed in regular Earth Science as a ninth grader because he had missed a lot of school in 8th grade (short term medical issue) and the 8th grade team wasn’t sure about placement in GT Earth Science. He was a little bored in Earth Science, and not thrilled with the kids in the class. He went on to do well in high school, took four years of math and four years of science, all of which he did well in. He got accepted to every college he applied to, and graduated in 4 years with double majors completely unrelated to math or science.
My second was placed in GT Biology because he was in the highest level math track, which was a requirement for ninth grade GT biology. He went on to do well in high school, took four years of math and science, chose not to take AP Biology in high school , got into most, but not all, of the colleges he applied to, and graduated in four years with high honors, Phi Beta Kappa with a major in biology and two other minors.
My youngest was placed in GT Earth Science. She went on to do well in high school, took four years of math and science, all,of which she did well in. She did take AP Biology. She was accepted to every college she applied to. She is in college now, and in her second biology course.
They all turned out just fine. They did well in high school, got into colleges, and their ninth grade science placement made no difference in anything. Nor did the placements of any of their friends.
Try to get the placement you think is really the best for your child, but mostly try to relax a little bit. It is not a bad thing to be denied a thing or two in life.
If the demand for the honors and AP courses is high enough, and the additional students who would be kept out are reasonably qualified (based on some criteria that are based on actual chance of success in the class, as opposed to capacity control or overly aggressive weeding), why not just change some of the regular sections to honors and AP sections?
Have you talked to the teacher and the guidance counselor? In our district, a parental over-ride is allowed with stipulations - kid can’t switch out until after a full marking period and must keep the grade earned. If not, go and talk to her and see what she says. Talk to the Guidance Counselor as well (both 8th grade and HS). I would also absolutely push the 504- regardless of whether his disability is really the factor in the lost materials assuming you really think he will be successful.
In this case, with such a bright kid, I would push as high as possible (but as nicely as possible). Sometimes the concern is opening the flood gates (if we let your son in with an 88, what about the 87.5?), and the 504 may allow this to be an exception Is it possible for him to raise his grade by the end of the year?
It is very frustrating for the kids, parents and teachers of kids that are very bright, but disorganized, or with executive function deficits. I know many just view them as lazy, but a 13 or 14 yo shouldn’t be excluded from all AP classes due to two points in missed lab reports. Good luck!!
Normally, I would agree, but it seems that the OP’s school district has a policy that once a student is in the non-honors track, there is no way to move up to the honors track. I.e. a “later bloomer” is kept down, regardless of how well s/he does later. This is unlike what I saw when I was in high school many years ago, where non-honors students could move up to the honors track after doing well in the previous non-honors course.
It still probably is not as big a deal as the OP thinks it is, but it is not insignificant either. Indeed, the school may not be sending the right message so early on, that students can only be downward-mobile but not upward-mobile among the regular and honors tracks. Indeed, such a policy may create more incentive for parents like the OP to fight the school in pushing for higher placement, knowing that it is now or never.
If it is indeed the case that there’s no way to move up to an honors track later, that’s pretty ridiculous. I would take the approach of addressing that. Because this one class is not a big deal. And there’s an argument to be made for taking it easy freshman year.
My kids HS allowed kids to move into honors or AP with teacher approval and a B or better. Both of my kids moved up to honors or AP in science despite not starting there. In D’s case she was recommended for honors bio as a freshman but opted against it because.she didn’t want to overdo it with her other honors classes.
@ucbalumnus and @1or2Musicians , iI completely agree with your nuanced responses.
I think this district’s policies are maybe more of the fable passed down as gospel that I referred to, but the OP will never know unless she politely pushes her way on up through the teacter to guidance and administration. There were parents saying much the same thing about doomed tracking back when my oldest was placed into regular Earth Science at the beginning of ninth grade, and most of it just wasn’t completely true.
I’ve found that even schedule rules that I have heard directly from a school official are really just guidelines.
What are the district’s policies for accommodating students who move into the district between 9th and 10th grade? Are newcomers’ flat-out blocked from ever getting on the AP track if they came from a district that didn’t offer 9th grade honors biology?
Like others, I think you need to push back and make noise. You said that the policy was in place to make the school look selective but, as someone else pointed out, that rationale doesn’t really make sense. I strongly suspect it’s a budget driven policy.
My daughter did move to a new state in 9th grade, although we picked a private school. They just didn’t have a good idea of which classes to put her in, so the admissions guy told me to pick one honors class for each (I had two starting). We picked Honors Algebra for one as she’d already had algebra in 8th grade but she just didn’t feel confident, but she could have gone into geometry. Best decision ever. She got a really good base in algebra, loved her teacher, and because of this choice she never took calc in high school. Not an issue. She’s in engineering, got an A in Calc I even though more than half the students had had calc in high school and were ‘repeating’ it. Would she have been accepted to MIT? No, but not because of 9th grade science. Would she have been accepted to RPI and schools on that level? I think so. She’s at a Tech school in about the middle to upper end of the acceptance stats.
After about 3 weeks at the school, her science teacher (I think it was some kind of earth science, or physical general science) recommended she move up to biology as that was the sequence that most STEM high school focused students were taking and he could see she was much farther along in science than her records indicated. We had ONE day to decide, and daughter decided to stick with the science she was in as she didn’t want to be 3 weeks behind in bio. Worked out fine. She took bio as a sophomore, chem as a junior, and then AP Chem and physics as a senior.
My kids actually switched high schools as sophomores, then we moved again, so three high schools total. Different books, different requirements, different number of courses they could take. It was fine.
Your son may be able to double up on sciences if he proves he needs a higher level of science.