I don’t care if she thinks she’s black. She can call herself any race she wants. But she can’t claim things that never happened to her, black children as hers that aren’t, and claim a black man as her biological father. She’s simply a liar. There’s also no reason to have done so. She could have gone to Howard and become President of the NAACP without lying about her background.
Why does everyone think she is “nuts” or “disturbed?” What difference does it make to anyone, besides her parents, that she sees herself as black? If she is “disturbed” or “nuts,” I wish all mental illness can be treated by identifying with another culture. And no, I am not equating it with being transgender. But I don’t think she is crazy for adopting a culture that is important and meaningful for her. Others have done it and may or may not have lied about their actual parentage.
It’s lying to the point that you get the sense that she herself believes all the lies. For example, the selfies she took with her “natural” hair for her 36th birthday. It’s fine to live your life embedded in a culture that you love that may not be original to you, but she has constructed all sorts of lies and pretense to feel, I suppose, that she is a more authentic part of that culture.
My takeaway from this story is that a person can live as anything he/she wants to: just don’t lie about it.
To echo others, my issue isn’t with the race changing. My own mom had her race “change” several times depending on which country she lived in and now self identifies as something different than what the US census considers her.
My issue is with the lying, the making up a background, etc. To make up a whole new childhood is just bizarre to me.
The “natural” hair selfie is a great example of how hard she is working to make her lie seem like a candid reality to the outside. Maybe it’s too Gone Girl manipulative or something, but the lengths that she goes to create a seemingly candid backstory and involving other people to me takes it to another level.
One thing that has intrigued me about the responses not only in this thread but in commentary elsewhere is how many people defend the idea of being whatever race you want to be. There’s one thing to identify with a culture and it’s another thing to appropriate its ancestry and believe you’re another race. I am not comfortable with this woman declaring she is black because she is not. Frankly, I think it’s a bit messed up that some do not see double standard and the limitations this belief presents.
“Transracial” is a semi-permeable barrier. Try telling a black person who has always “identified” with white culture that they can snap their fingers and declare they’re white. The entire world will look at them as though they’re not. Preach how race is a social construct and anybody can be any race all you want, but it’s a social construct that affects people’s jobs and quality of life – it’s very much real. It’s not as easy for others to “pass” on by. So, yes, I find it disturbing how people want to accept this woman’s doing when she very much could’ve been a white woman advocating for the black community just how others have done before her.
Perhaps someone should do a couple studies on “racial dysmorphia” because I don’t believe it. I can understand identifying with another culture or embracing it, but believing you’re another race? What is that? Is it believing that you have a strong 3C curl and an affinity for a troubled childhood? I see it nothing more as picking and choosing what pieces of stereotypes, statistics, and culture that you like and creating your fantasy selfhood.
@romanigypsyeyes, I agree.
BTW, the Census accepts people as whatever they say they are. On some surveys there are separate questions about gender, race, and ethnicity. Other than clarifying the difference when it is an issue, census workers are supposed to accept what the respondent says.
I once had a respondent that insisted that his race–not his ethnicity-- was Greek.
Put down whatever you want on the Census. You can declare that you’re Asian, but at the end of the day if you don’t have it in your family tree – you’re not Asian. Dolezal can declare she’s black, but she’s not. Come to think of it, Asian wasn’t a good example, but anywho, it’s one thing to identify with a culture and it’s another to appropriate as your own. If she grew up in a household where black culture was present and she knows all the lines to Friday. Great, keep doing your thing Dolezal! But she didn’t and she latched on to the background of her brothers when turned off by her own and now declares a background this is a lie. She can declare she’s black, but her mother and father weren’t affected by the civil rights movement (in the way black people were). She can say she’s black but rewind two hundred years and she wouldn’t be a slave. For clarification, I do understand that cultures are not lock step with one’s racial history, but claiming a history that isn’t yours doesn’t sit well with me.
Maybe my feelings will change as I think through this whole thing, but this is currently how I feel about it all.
Very fair. It was poorly worded on my part. I should say that according to the Census she can identify as X as well as Y but chooses only to identify as Y because that’s what she considers herself.
[quote]
I didn't say she applied for any AA scholarships. What I was saying was that the NAACP wouldn't be giving a pass to a white kid who applied for an AA scholarship. If she can self-identify as black then whats stopping white students from doing the same?
[/quote]
Sorry, I did misread your initial comment. But the point I made was one I wanted to make — she had qualifications other than whatever she put down as her race that would have justified giving her scholarships. As for all-white applicants applying for affirmative action scholarships ---- yes, that would be frowned upon. And really, not all that easy to do, since it usually involves more than just checking a box on a form. Personal interviews, multiple recommendations/profiles from teachers and counselors and employers, a c.v. of involvement including the neighborhood schools and churches attended, etc. Not impossible to fake it, but not easy enough to make it commonplace, imo.
Also, in the case of Dolezal, it’s clear that she did not believe herself to be “born in the wrong body” since she was aware that her black identity was something she had to warn her visiting brother to protect. “Don’t blow my cover.”
To be rational, the belief that one is living in the “wrong body” has to be backed up by science (not just individual feelings) and it is…scientists have made great strides to show there is a brain connection that can be part of a rational explanation for why the physical and the mental manifestations of male/female may not be in sync. There’s no similar science to back up the notion that one is in the wrong body for one’s preferred race (or to go more extreme that one is in the wrong body for one’s species).
If people conflate those, it’s ignorance or maliciousness or both.
I feel like I’m in the wrong body for my age. My brain tells me I’m younger than my birth certificate shows. Lots of women dress, color their hair, have plastic surgery etc. to appear younger than they are. So a woman can appear to be one age, when she is actually another. It’s just not okay to lie about it on important things.
If this woman wants to look black that is her right. She just shouldn’t lie about it. She should say that her parents were white, but she likes looking like a black woman and feels more comfortable that way.
My friend who thought her heritage was Mexican and whose DNA is actually Basque, still feels Mexican because that is how she thinks about herself. Of course, hers was a mistake not a conscious decision. But now that she knows the ‘truth’ I doubt if it will change her self-identity.
@Niquii77, let’s leave this particular woman and her personal issues aside. Let’s think about this broadly.
What is the difference between saying this:
…and saying “You can say that you’re a woman, but at the end of the day, if you don’t have XY chromosomes, you’re not.” (Please note that I am NOT endorsing this statement.)
This link was posted in the thread about Caitlyn Jenner:
It is in interesting read. When you finish it, take a look at the picture of the woman who wrote it.
You might also imagine a woman saying, “You never experienced people telling you in first grade that ‘girls are bad at math’. You never experienced boys snapping your bra in school when you were a horribly self-conscious 12 year old who had just started to develop. You never experienced boys at school talking about you being “on the rag” when you were that horribly self-conscious child going through puberty. Go back 200 years and you had no right to own property, no rights to your own children, and your husband could sign you into an asylum if he wanted on his word alone. You never experienced modern feminism and the struggle for equal pay, access to education, access to careers, reproductive rights, and a host of other things.”
That proves nothing. A trans person could have said exactly the same thing to their sibling if they were not “out,” so to speak.
Science on this and all other subjects does not spring fully formed from the head of Zeus. Have scientists even been investigating it?
Look, this particular person seems to have a screw loose, and to have lied in a particularly harmful manner.
I find it equally astounding that people of ill-will would try to conflate this with Caitlyn Jenner to the detriment of trans women, AND that people would be so intellectually dishonest that they practically have the vapors when the possibility of a person feeling this way is discussed.
You make some valid points, Consolation. I think people should be able to live however they want to live in whatever identity. But they should not lie about their dual identities. Caitlynn Jenner will never have a menstrual period, menstrual cramps, ovarian cysts, missed periods, and certainly not being weaker than the opposite sex and all the other biological manifestations of being an XX woman. So for her to say “I feel like a woman” is well…not how 99% of XX women feel like. But she feels like she feels like a woman. So whatever.
And in the process of editing, I screwed up the chromosomes…
“But they should not lie about their dual identities. Caitlynn Jenner will never have a menstrual period, menstrual cramps, ovarian cysts, missed periods, and certainly not being weaker than the opposite sex and all the other biological manifestations of being an XX woman. So for her to say “I feel like a woman” is well…not how 99% of XX women feel like. But she feels like she feels like a woman. So whatever”
Not all women will have menstrual cramps, ovarian cysts, or be physically weak. Is a young woman born without a uterus who never gets a period not a woman? What about a woman who never develops a chest?
This is really fascinating, because honestly it’s hard for me intellectually to rationalize this situation against the Jenner situation. What part of your biology really is your destiny? And what defines being a woman / being black / etc. - is it the outward signs that others see? (after all, a black person with vitiligo is still a black person) Is it what society tells you you are / should be? (wear a dress and makeup, etc.) Is it shared experiences? (sexism, racism, etc.)
Well, one thing is certain: just like a woman who is amply endowed, it will be the subject of public comment by men–and some other women-- throughout a good deal of her life.
There isn’t much of a difference. If your elders weren’t by any means (let’s say…) African, then you don’t have an African heritage and to claim so would be a lie. If you were born with XY chromosomes, then you weren’t born a woman by birth and to claim so would be a lie*. Now, I do want to step back from the comparisons between transgenders/Caitlyn Jenner talk because I was never originally comparing the two. I am answering a question that was posed to me. Additionally, this is extremely oversimplified (too much for my taste) and I know it will be misconstrued by some, but this is a response to a question posed.
At the end of the day, my belief is this: “Don’t claim a history that isn’t yours.” Even simpler: “Don’t be a liar.” My view of her would be entirely different if she didn’t select an overplayed trope of an American black woman and lie about her background.
*Ignoring chromosome abnormalities
What does the “overplayed trope of an American black woman” have to do with it? Are some types of black women more authentically black than others?
“Caitlynn Jenner will never have a menstrual period, menstrual cramps, ovarian cysts, missed periods, and certainly not being weaker than the opposite sex and all the other biological manifestations of being an XX woman. So for her to say “I feel like a woman” is well…not how 99% of XX women feel like. But she feels like she feels like a woman. So whatever.”
Suppose the gender reassignment surgery were to include a component that implants a uterus that bleeds monthly, and all of the other typical symptoms of a period were to arise (bloating, cramps, etc.). Would that make you feel differently?