Origin of Life

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I’m not a paleontological expert, but invertebrates must leave some sort of fossil- probably imprints- or else we would not know of the Cambrian explosion at all.</p>

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No, it does not “prove” creationism. However, such lack of evidence harms the case for evolution, thereby strengthening the case for creationism. </p>

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That may be so. Even if this spacing of mutation is the case, the sheer number of mutations required to go from a single-celled organism to a complex vertebrate means that we should have found more fossil evidence of the intermediate mutations.</p>

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<p>Creationism cant be the only other explanation. There must be others. Avida proves a lot about evolution. Read that article and u’ll be thinking differently. Creationists are facing grave danger to their theory due to this software.</p>

<p>I’m going to make what I feel is a logical proposal, though no one would ever adopt it.</p>

<p>Reverse the amount of funding given for research in evolution and creationism for five years. At the end of those five years, I’m willing to bet that it will be the evolutionists who are ridiculed and the creationists who are believed.</p>

<p>I think it is silly for creationists to try to defeat evolution in a scientific context (i.e. use science to disprove it). Rather, they just need to say “Ok, we just need to have faith that there is a God that did it all.” That is a much more compelling argument.</p>

<p>“I think it is silly for creationists to try to defeat evolution in a scientific context (i.e. use science to disprove it)… That is a much more compelling argument.”</p>

<p>why though?? religion isn’t based on blind faith. religious people dont just say " God did it because he is God." and if science provides information to disprove evolution, why shy away from it?</p>

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Whoa. Run that by me again. Isn’t “blind faith” the primary tenet of, well, every major world religion? Science and religion are capable of coexisting peacefully, but the moment that religion infringes on science is the moment it all comes toppling down. Religion is faith. Religion is a moral code. Religion, if reinterpreted, is an explanation for that which is unexplainable by science.</p>

<p>As far as G-d is concerned, faith is blind. Anything else is circular.</p>

<p>Read Angels And Demons. Then u’ll know abt religion being based upon pure faith. Religion has always tried to prevent the growth of scientific developments. Also stories like Jesus walking on water and Moses splitting the seas etc are all beyond science. In hinduism there are way more unbelievable stories. Why cant anyone do any of htose things today. Dont tell me we dont have enough faith. </p>

<p>Anyway, till evolution was proposed, only creationism was believed to be true. Evolution emerged from less than scrap. Darwin’s ideas were greatly opposed. But today there are a hell lot of evolutionists, i.e. the creationists were converted. Thats tough enough. That means evolution has a strong enough logical basis.
Till evolution challenged creationism ppl were convinced abt creationism through stories and stuff. Why didnt ppl do any research then - they had over a 1000 years. The church would’ve surely funded research on creationism. Gladly too. The only problem is - where do u start to research creationism? Only after evolution came, ppl tried to prove creationism by disproving evolution as they are still doing today. So, u cant really do any explicit research on creationism. It just has to disprove any other theory of origin of life. Then ppl say creationism is true as u cant show any facts to disprove it just as u dont have any facts to explicitly prove it.</p>

<p>Because they didn’t have all of the necessary tools back then.</p>

<p>Example: moon dust
If the solar system really were billions of years old, the moon should be buried in several feet of dust. NASA scientists designed the Apollo lunar craft with special gear so that it wouldn’t sink into the dust. Then, they come, and lo and behold, there’s only 1/4 inch of dust! Of course, there are many explanations for this…you could argue that some incident blew all of the dust off of the moon…my argument is that the solar system just isn’t that old…so which explanation is more contrived?</p>

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<p>We know that there are many intermediates between single celled organisms and vertebrates. There are invertebrates, Colonised single celled organisms, many species between single cells and vertebrates still exist today. Now, u are asking for all the intermediates. Thats quite impossible. Earth was quite catastrophic till recently. There are many cases in which these fossils must’ve been destroyed. We know most of the intermediates between the chimp and man. So, there must quite enough proof for other organisms too.</p>

<p>“We know most of the intermediates between the chimp and man. So, there must quite enough proof for other organisms too.”</p>

<p>Did you remember to skip Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, and all of the other non-links?</p>

<p>Cro-Magnons were better than Neandrethals. They also lived during the same period. But Cro-Magnons lived longer.
Scientists have many theories on disappearance of neandrethals and cro-magnons.
1)Cro-Mangnons fought with the neandrethals and defeated them. Neandrethals became outcasts and due to their low redproductive rate, finally got extinct. Then the modern human species wiped out the cro-magnons.
2) This one is opposite of the first theory. Cro-Magnons and Neandrethals met and bred among themselves to form humans.</p>

<p>Anyway, neandrethals and cro-magnons were basically in europe and ppl believe that modern humans evolved from Africa and migrated to the other parts of the world. There was a show abt this on discovery where one scientist went all around the world taking gene samples. He compared these gene smples to very old human samples and those of africans to find out in what route man migrated from Africa. I haven’t explained it very well here but it was highly succesfull.
Another thing is that, why would God have created Cro-Magnons and Neandrethals and then just allowed hem to perish. In fact why have animals become extinct if God had created them. What did He create them for then?? How does creationism explain this?</p>

<p>Cro-Magnons are virtually identical to humans. As such, creationists believe that they are humans who just happened to live in caves.</p>

<p>How can Neanderthals be our ancestors if they had larger brain capacities? Is being too smart bad in natural selection? Creationists’ view: Neanderthals are merely humans with different diets (deficient in some vitamins, more than sufficient in others)</p>

<p>Creationists’ view: all extinctions have come about through the intervention of man. God allows this to happen, just as he allows tragedies to happen to man. Of course, in order for this to work, it has to incorporate the VERY unpopular theory that dinosaurs were merely exotic lizards in hyperbaric conditions.</p>

<p>@Tanonev:</p>

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<p>This article is confirmed by dozens of other sources.</p>

<p>The moon dust argument is seriously outmoded.</p>

<p>Evolution of the horse:</p>

<p>The species listed as being the evolutionary chain leading to the horse appear to follow a trend: they get bigger and slowly look more like the horse (think one of those morphing pictures).</p>

<p>HOWEVER: why does the number of ribs jump arbitrarily between links?</p>

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<p>There isn’t a trend like you mentioned. Read above. I also suggest you visit the website for a more in depth analysis of horse evolution, replete with scientific (and creationist) references.</p>

<p>“A Question for Creationists: Creationists who wish to deny the evidence of horse evolution should careful consider this: how else can you explain the sequence of horse fossils? Even if creationists insist on ignoring the transitional fossils (many of which have been found), again, how can the unmistakable sequence of these fossils be explained? Did God create Hyracotherium, then kill off Hyracotherium and create some Hyracotherium-Orohippus intermediates, then kill off the intermediates and create Orohippus, then kill off Orohippus and create Epihippus, then allow Epihippus to “microevolve” into Duchesnehippus, then kill off Duchesnehippus and create Mesohippus, then create some Mesohippus-Miohippus intermediates, then create Miohippus, then kill off Mesohippus, etc…each species coincidentally similar to the species that came just before and came just after?”</p>

<p>Limited variation…many species were lost after the Flood, and new species arose from the pair of horses on the ark. New species can arise, but there has been no change in “kind” to date…</p>

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<p>This is becoming tiresome, tanonev. Every time I quote, reformat, and comment on a response to your claims, you come back with an unrelated, equally unfounded, one. Please research your claims before making them. It takes no work to make a fallacious claim. It takes a substantial amount to disprove said claim with evidence.</p>

<p>Very well, I’ll post something related to my last one. Limited variation:</p>

<p>Take the bat. It supposedly evolved from some sort of shrew. However, in order to go from shrew to bat, there has to be webbing between the “finger” bones and a lengthening of said bones. Now, unless we have really punctuated equilibrium (shrew gives birth to bat), there has to be some transitional creature with either somewhat lengthened finger bones or the creation of webbing. In either case, we have a transitional creature that is LESS fit than the original shrew, so it would be promptly eliminated.</p>

<p>Natural selection is linked to limited variation: changes can only occur if the resulting creature is more fit than the original. Within a certain area around a species, this is quite possible. However, at a certain distance, there arises a virtually insurmountable barrier of unfit cases. The chances that these unfit cases can survive long enough to reproduce and complete the change are slim, especially since many animals are hardwired to destroy their unfit offspring.</p>

<p>"What hasn’t been observed is one animal abruptly changing into a radically different one, such as a frog changing into a cow. This is not a problem for evolution because evolution doesn’t propose occurrences even remotely like that. In fact, if we ever observed a frog turn into a cow, it would be very strong evidence against evolution. "</p>

<p>The problem is that even if we DID witness a frog turn into a cow, no one would believe it…so what’s the point?</p>

<p>@tanonev: You’re taking frog/cow out of context. I will not respond to that. As for bats. . .</p>

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<p>Science is an exploration. What we do not know now, we may know in five, ten, fifteen years. The Bible is static. What it fails to adequately explain now, it will fail to adequately explain forever.</p>