I’m not sure if you are listing this as a pro, or a con? There is nothing wrong with being easier to get into. 
2 Likes
This is 100% true.
OP has the student visited?
In my kid’s case it’s largely about where the major they want to do is available, but that doesn’t sound like that’s the issue in your case.
Having schools that are easier to get into is important to have on a college list. I would think that any serious culling of schools (other than those that are clearly unaffordable) is probably better to do after you have acceptances to choose from, rather than before you apply.
2 Likes
There are public LACs and smaller schools that don’t have big lectures.
There are LACs that have a few big lectures.
It’s all about list selection.
While it’s not specific to a major or your kid, you can look at the CDS section I3 for undergraduate class size ranges.
My kids went to 3 different flagships, housing guaranteed at one, not guaranteed but likely at another, and pretty much not likely after freshman year at the third. At two in state non flagship public’s housing was guaranteed.
1 Like
As long as off-campus housing is available in the vicinity, I wouldn’t worry about this. Even at schools that guarantee housing, many students prefer off-campus housing after their first or second year. It’s a step in the direction of adult living, giving them more freedom, and can be cheaper than on-campus housing.
7 Likes
Exactly this - my kid chose his school because he got his own dorm room and a shared bathroom with just one other kid.
And yet, while he thought it was the greatest thing ever and he’d be in it for four years, he couldn’t wait to escape - and moved out for 2nd year and got an adjacent to campus apartment.
What kids think at 17 is often very different once they experience it.
5 Likes
Where we live (Northeast), OOS state schools in the south are very popular. Our understanding of the reasons are: they are easier to get into, they are in warmer climates, they have big school/football/party/Greek cultures, and lastly, the families applying can afford the steep OOS tuition. If the above the does not fit you and your student leans towards a flexible/creative liberal arts environment, I am not sure why you would target an OOS state school, other than having a safety and possibly getting some merit aid.
1 Like
This is school dependent, and not private LAC versus OOS public.
I have/had family members at both. And- all schools have parties.
I recommend visiting if possible and talking to students about how they spend their time on the weekends.
3 Likes
There are many schools, even in the south, that are public LACs or are smaller. One can’t generalize an entire region.
OP hasn’t asked for names but if they put out what they are looking for or did a match me, they’d get names.
I think OP is simply putting out a hypothetical to see if they are missing something, but I personally, don’t think their hypothetical is - correct. There’s a lot of gray, a lot of nuance -this isn’t a black and white topic.
2 Likes
I was so worried about S23 picking a school that didn’t guarantee 4 years of housing (I think the one he picked actually doesn’t guarantee it, but everyone who wants it gets it), but as it turns out, it’s a complete non-issue. Many large state schools have nonschool owned “student” apartment complexes that are comparable in cost to the dorms and offer individual leases on multi-bedroom apartments. Unless finding off campus housing is a known issue, I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on it.
My kid attends a very large state school (OOS) and one of the first things I always bring up is how user-friendly it is. It’s a large institution, but they are student-forward and have a customer service mentality.
I thought this was an issue, but S23 insists he learns best in the large lecture format with the smaller breakout sessions after (this is a kid that graduated with a class of 10 from middle school and 65 from high school. Plus, has a learning difference) He feels that once you’re in a lecture, it doesn’t really make a difference. Plus, there are more sections of the class, and often you can go to different break out sessions so you can find the one that works for you. Once you get into upper level classes, it’s not an issue.
I was all in on a smaller school, LAC for S23, but he knew what he wanted (big state school) and I’m so glad that’s where he ended up. It was the perfect fit for him.
6 Likes
I think this is the most important thing I have read from this thread!
Look at the schools themselves- and not through the lens that they are OOS Public. Drop any preconceived notions (some will hold true- but some wont and this will be different at each school) and really look at the programs they offer and especially at organizations and Honors colleges offered to see if those are options that will help your student have that small college feel at a big university.
The difference in cost- whether or not worth it- can really only be answered by you. 10k a year is life changing to some and makes absolutely no difference to others.
Just for antidotal info:
Among her applications- D26 is applying to 2 state schools (one in-state and another OOS) that has a student population of 2k and 5k,
One of the privates on her list is 18+k.
So, for her- the private school is huge and impersonal feeling compared to a couple of her state school choices.
Good luck- my suggestion- get the applications into a variety of choices- the decision doesn’t have to be made ‘usually’ until May 1st and it will be good to have a diverse list to choose from. So, plenty of time to work through this and hopefully get some visits in if not already done.
3 Likes
I think there’s a difference between savings of 10K at high profile schools when both are full pay (say UCB/UCLA vs Georgetown) and cheaper/merit-based OOS schools which are being compared to privates where there is an expectation of some need based aid (say Ohio State/Purdue vs Georgetown).
Are you talking about the former? If so then I think it’s a decision that will depend on the specific admissions, my S had quite a number of OOS friends at UCLA who chose it over private options (eg Boston College).
1 Like
Does he have a career interest? It’s ok if he doesn’t know, and keep in mind that it is common for interests to develop/change.
More information would make it easier for us to give useful advice. What state you are in is one piece of information that would be helpful.
Regardless of where you live, there are of course lots of out of state liberal arts colleges.
In-state versus out of state is a rather broad categorization. When we were looking we did of course find in-state public schools to have some cost advantages, but there were only a small number of in-state public schools that were even remotely appropriate for each kid (perhaps one for one daughter, and zero for the other daughter).
Some out of state schools offer some merit aid for strong students, which can reduce the cost difference. We found lots of out of state public schools (every one either daughter applied to) that cost significantly less than the private schools that we considered, but this of course will depend upon how much aid the private schools offer (for us need-based financial aid was not going to happen).
We had an unusual situation in that we live in the northeast of the US and both daughters have dual citizenship, which made schools in Canada another out-of-state option to consider. In our case every public university in Canada (which is probably everything you have heard of and more) would have cost less than our in-state public schools, and one daughter did take advantage of this.
Regarding Liberal Arts Colleges, this is a term that is as far as I know unique to the US. However, Canada does have some very good small primarily undergraduate universities, which are pretty much the same thing (some are around 2,000 students, some get up more towards 4,000 or in one case 5,000 students). Since we live in the northeast of the US, we got familiar with the ones in eastern Canada. The last time that I looked the cost of these for an international student (such as an American with no ties to Canada) was about the same as the in-state cost at our local in-state public universities. The exchange rate helps a lot for someone from the US who is attending university in Canada.
And there are some LACs in the US that offer merit aid, although the highly ranked famous ones in our part of the US (the northeast) don’t offer merit aid and are very expensive unless you qualify for need based aid.
This sounds like this might mean a major that is available at a wide range of colleges and universities. This takes away one of the largest disadvantages of a smaller school, which is that smaller schools typically have a smaller range of possible majors.
I know someone from Vermont whose daughter thought that UVM was boring and too local and everyone went there, so she went to U. Mass Amherst. I also know someone from Massachusetts whose daughter thought that U.Mass was too boring and too local and everyone went there so she went to UVM. Both were offered merit based financial aid out of state so that the difference in cost was limited to something like $20,000 per year. Both got a great education. Both stayed within their family’s budget. Both families probably paid about $80,000 in total extra for their daughter to go out of state. Was it worth it? I do not know. Both daughters probably would have done well in their in-state schools. However, both got a slightly broader view of the world, felt like they got to make their own decision, got to be a bit more on their own, and both graduated in-budget from a very good university. One went on to get a doctorate and is currently well employed. I expect the other is doing well also although I have not talked to that particular father for a while.
Perhaps each family needs to decide what is right for them.
University is very expensive in the US. Costs can vary widely from one school to the next, and different students might have wildly different costs at each particular school. University is also a major stepping stone for a child turning into an adult and finding their way in the world.
How to balance this can be a tough decision for each family.
2 Likes
Your question is too broad; need specifics such as specific school names and student’s priorities and preferences.
Much has changed over the last two to three decades so that you & your spouse’s experiences may not be relevant today.
5 Likes
A lot of students will say that they do not want to run into students who they went to HS with…yet…some OOS publics have a lot of students from our HS attending each year.
1 Like
It depends on which schools, your kid, expectations, major, etc.
University of Vermont “feels” more like a private college than a state flagship IMHO. NYU has all the downsides of a huge public U- but it’s private. You can major in Education at U Michigan and have a “feels like a private U” experience, or major in Psych at Penn State or CS at UIUC and have no illusions that you are at a small university.
So your construct isn’t really helpful. Sometimes the “out of state” experience will be worth it, other times you are trading your own state U’s challenges for somebody else’s state challenges while paying more for the privilege. It really depends.
7 Likes
OP here…I got a lot of similar questions, so will give a bit more info.
For what it’s worth, this is our second child to go to college, so we’ve done all this before.
We haven’t gotten very far on this part of his list, but are looking at UVM (visited), UCSC (think we are crossing this off due to cost), and possibly U Maine, UC Boulder, UNC Asheville, maybe William and Mary, maybe others. I know OOS costs vary at these places–I actually didn’t realize how drastically they vary till looking closer today.
He has a strong preference for schools near mountains or with a lot of wilderness nearby, which affects this list a lot. We live in FL (please no discussion of FL schools…we know all about them…he’ll apply, but prefers not to go in state for various good reasons). Our estimated SAI is about 50k, which we can manage, though not very comfortably.
He does not have a career figured out yet. Grad school? Maybe. Don’t know. He really is interested in a lot of different stuff.
He is a very strong student (3.9 GPA, IB diploma candidate, also lots of AP classes, 36 ACT), though there is nothing very exciting going on for extracurriculars.
He already has a good list of reaches and high targets for LACs (Vassar, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Macalester, Colorado College, Conn College). He hasn’t found a lot of safeties/strong target LACs that excite him (looks like Conn College and Sewanee right now…we aren’t too sure about Sewanee). This is where the public schools may be coming in. Also, I think it’s good to have some variety.
As far as size, I would say he’s not excited about really small schools and really huge schools, but feels fine with a wide range. He definitely isn’t a rah rah party kid.
1 Like
This is exactly my concern.