Outrageous restriction of free speech in the classroom

<p>Some of the last few posts remind me why the Right is so hard to love.</p>

<p>afadad – after acknowledging that “we don’t know the entire story” – concludes “teachers like this need to be thrown out.” Rush to judgment much? When the Duke lacrosse team incident happened, people rightly slammed the administration and press for lynching the students before listening to their side of the story, and there was a lot more basis for condemning them than there is for going after the teacher here. (I suspect dmd77 is right, but he’s speculating, too.) If one is going to criticize others for rushing to judgment, that ought not to apply only when one doesn’t like the way the hasty judgment is going.</p>

<p>(Also, I note that there were law enforcement professionals involved here. Since when do we presume that the police – even the campus police – are willing tools to enforce academic political preferences? Might it be possible that the police looked at all the facts at their disposal and concluded there was reasonable cause to do further investigation? Should we not give them the benefit of the doubt on that?)</p>

<p>And geeps20 is eloquent about how courageous it is for students to express thoroughly mainstream views. Spare me. I believe strongly in students’ right to express whatever views they want, including views that completely accord with the views of their parents, their friends, and the politically powerful. But I don’t call it “courageous”.</p>

<p>For centuries, through and including today in most parts of this country, people who defended homosexual rights exposed themselves to censure, social isolation, imprisonment, and often serious physical danger. People who condemned homosexuals could generally count – and in most places still can generally count – on the agreement and support of the majority. So maybe there are a few corners of the world where they risk having peers and teachers think less of them for it. Boo-hoo-hoo. I’m not ready to admire their courage.</p>

<p>When my kids were in middle school – at a very politically liberal school – there was an incident of this. One boy, who happened to be very charismatic and popular, from a family of strong evangelical Christians, decided that it was his duty to bear witness against the sin of homosexuality. He thought carefully about what he was going to say, and even wrote it down. As part of it, he called out publically several classmates who had gay parents, and one who was in the process of coming out, and explained how they were immersed in sin and evil. Of course, within minutes there were several sobbing, hysterical 14-year-olds, two of whom had to be taken out of school that day.</p>

<p>Now, there WAS an element of courage in what that boy did – he knew perfectly well that he was expressing a view that the powers-that-be in his school did not agree with. But the social context of that particular issue meant that even 1-against-100 was not such an unequal fight, because the kids he was attacking knew that everywhere BUT their school and their homes their position was extremely precarious. One student breaching the school’s unspoken compact to help those kids feel safe at school was plenty enough to remind his targets that they WERE, after all, targets almost everywhere they went.</p>

<p>(How did this ultra-lefty school respond? Several sessions with the boy and his parents, at which the school made clear that he was free to hold and to express whatever views he wanted, but not to attack his classmates, and that they would not be permitted to attack him. He had not understood at all how hurtful he was being – (a) he was 14, and (b) he came from a social world in which the rhetoric he used was normative and upset no one. His parents had always understood that the moral philosophy of the school was not the same as theirs. While they were proud that he had maintained his faith against social pressure, they also understood that it wasn’t OK to reduce classmates to tears. Things worked out fine. He was a great kid.)</p>

<h2>“Agreed. I think that this student’s demeanor made the hairs on the backs of the necks of the audience stand up.”</h2>

<p>Is this fact documented? Has the professor provided evidence that her students were uncomfortable? Were actual complaints made or was she just using the ‘mouse in her pocket’ argument?</p>

<p>This student was making a presentation on a very timely topic since this issue of gun-free zones is on the table at many American universities. How else does the topic get debated, if we aren’t free to use our words? </p>

<p>And do we really want professors substituting ANYthing for good judgment, including an overzealous sense of political correctness? </p>

<p>[Professor</a> Called Police After Student Presentation | CCSU Recorder](<a href=“http://therecorderonline.net/2009/02/24/professor-called-police-after-student-presentation/]Professor”>Recorder Online - Podcast for the Business Professional)</p>

<p>"Wahlberg believes that her complaint was filed without good reason.</p>

<p>‘I don’t think that Professor Anderson was justified in calling the CCSU police over a clearly nonthreatening matter. Although the topic of discussion may have made a few individuals uncomfortable, there was no need to label me as a threat,’ Wahlberg said in response. ‘The actions of Professor Anderson made me so uncomfortable, that I didn’t attend several classes. The only appropriate action taken by the Professor was to excuse my absences.’</p>

<p>The university police were unavailable for comment.</p>

<p>‘If you can’t talk about the Second Amendment, what happened to the First Amendment?’ asked Sara Adler, president of the Riflery and Marksmanship club on campus. ‘After all, a university campus is a place for the free and open exchange of ideas.’ "</p>

<p>JHS, regarding your story about the middle school, I think that is exactly how issues like that should be handled at that age. 14 year olds do need to be protected at school, but when we start talking about college classrooms, the students need to grow up a bit, and learn how to deal with ideas that make them uncomfortable. As adults, we are supposed to have freedom of speech, not freedom from hurt feelings.</p>

<p>

There is no question that this student’s freedom of speech was infringed. He was summoned to the police station for questioning based on what he said in that class. Now, as others have said, it may be that the facts justified this questioning, but they may not have, as well. Personally, I am willing to consider the possibility that either the student or the professor is an idiot, or that both of them are idiots. So the student may have said something that really seemed threatening, the professor may have freaked out just at the mention of guns, or some combination of those things. But calling you in for an interrogation certainly inhibits speech.</p>

<p>We were not there in the classroom and all we have is this student’s version of things. An unbiased source?</p>

<p>While the student may infer it was because of the topic chosen, we don’t know what was said in class, how it was said or why students felt nervous. Why were they nervous? What was conveyed? Campus police were as likely called not because of a topic talked about, but because of a perceived sense of threat that emanated from what went on in the classroom that day. </p>

<p>My students could present on child pornography or domestic abuse or gang-land killings or killing baby seals, and all that would be perfectly acceptable, to take any position on those topics. But there is a HUGE difference one witnesses between a) presenting the facts and arguments on a controversial side of a topic and b) conveying personal motivations, emotions, and details around it. </p>

<p>They erred on caution, looked into it, and I don’t see where his rights were violated. </p>

<p>It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. If you don’t follow up, and something comes of it, where are fingers pointing about how no one responded to the signs?</p>

<p>I would say to everyone who has posted on this: don’t make assumptions about the facts based on your ideological position.<br>
Oh, I forgot to add in my prior post: the police officer who took the call from the professor might have been an idiot, too.</p>

<p>Most likely prof. just follow a guideline to keep his job. MD’s have them also, for example, and can report a minor bruise on a child body to children services. As ridiculus as it sounds, everybody just follow rules that they are imposed on.</p>

<p>I am a gun owner who is open to the idea of some individuals on campus being able to carry concealed weapons. If I ever find out that my kid shared with a professor that he was scared and made uncomfortable by another students actions and the professor decided to not report it, I’d be furious and feel completely betrayed by the school.</p>

<p>Again, Virginia Tech; the report clearly stated that part of the problem was that campus authorites did not communicate with each other due to wrongly understanding privacy laws. If you were the professor, would you take the chance that this student had never been reported before? Would you dismiss your students concerns, not take the action the campus requires you to take, because you could be that sure based on what you know about a student in your classroom? </p>

<p>I mean, really, no matter how one feels about guns/concealed carry, how can you justify dismissing students concerns? What if this student did attack one of the students who came to you? </p>

<p>What if it was your child whose fears had been dismissed and then something happened?</p>

<p>But you simply have to dismiss unfounded concerns. If, for example, this kid simply said that he favors allowing concealed weapon permits, I think the professor should have dismissed concerns, and perhaps give the concerned student a mini-lesson on free speech.
If a student came to you and said that she was concerned that a big black student was “dangerous-looking,” without anything more, wouldn’t you dismiss that concern?</p>

<p>Again, I’m curious as to whether students actually did express concerns. I didn’t see anything in the article other than the professor’s generic claim that the presentation made her students uncomfortable. She’s implying a conversation between her and her students and I’d like to know more about those conversations. But seems like she is not elaborating further.</p>

<p>How can we judge if we do not know what was in the presentation?</p>

<p>I think that there are always two sides to every story and none of us clearly knows what happened. However, IF this prof did get complaints from her students then what was she supposed to do? Ignore it? If my child was murdered on campus by this person & I found out that other people already were worried about the person but too afraid to do anything about it I would be more than ticked. </p>

<p>What if your children were at the school? It ISN’T a liberal/conservative thing like some of you are making it out to be. It is a safety issue.</p>

<p>

Again, it depends on what the complaints were. Based on the facts we know, I can easily construct a scenario in which it would have been terrible malpractice for the professor to fail to report the complaints, as well as another scenario in which it would have been shameful and unprofessional for her to have reported them. Heck, I can imagine a scenario in which she should have reported the people who made the complaints!</p>

<p>I really wish people would stop acting as though a person being black people has anythign whatsoever to do with weapons. It’s meaningless. It’s just an attempt to distract. A gun is not race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc. It is a weapon. </p>

<p>If any student of mine came to me feeling uncomfortable about another student, I’d ask for specifics. If those specifics were limited solely to race, I’d take one course of action. If those specifics involved a presentation on weapons of anykind, I’d inform my superior and the campus police. Not because I am anti-butcher knife but because my first obligation is to my student’s saftey. </p>

<p>Overall, I’d very much error on the side of caution. I also find this willingness dismiss this because we “only have the professors word” appauling. So now the standard for a teacher reporting this kind of thing should be what? At least one witness who is a member in good standing of the NRA?</p>

<p>

Do you really mean that if a student came to you and said, “I just learned that Joe is a member of the NRA–that makes me uncomfortable.”–you would report that to the police?</p>

<p>Let me propose that almost all of us would be in agreement on the following:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If a professor used the campus police to intimidate a student who made a class presentation against gun control, and the campus police cooperated in that effort, it would be an outrageous infringement of academic free speech. The professor ought to be disciplined.</p></li>
<li><p>If a professor honestly believed that a student was threatening to carry firearms on campus, in violation of law and university policy, and students in the class also had the same reaction, it would be an outrageous dereliction of duty for the professor to fail to alert the campus police, or for the campus police to fail to investigate further if the threat was objectively credible. If the student had firearms on campus, disciplinary action would be appropriate, regardless of one’s views of the wisdom of any anti-gun rules. As a society, we are comfortable with chilling absolutely free speech a bit when it comes to credible threats of criminal violations that endanger others.</p></li>
<li><p>From the one story any of us has read, we have only the professor’s word (and implicitly the police’s word) that this wasn’t the first situation. And we have only the student’s word that it wasn’t the second.</p></li>
<li><p>Some judgment was clearly being exercised, since only one student out of the group was investigated, and there were additional facts about that student that supported the investigation, and the authorities seem to be taking care not to demonize the student. Nothing further seems to have happened to him. But none of this is inconsistent with either extreme hypothesis.</p></li>
<li><p>There is a whole spectrum of possibilities between the two extremes – maybe the professor and the police were being manipulated into a bureacratic corner by hostile anti-gun students, maybe the speaker was misinterpreted by his classmates and the professor, etc. It’s overwhelmingly likely that the real facts fall somewhere along that spectrum. None of us knows where, though.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>JHS- I agree</p>

<p>pugmad - It’s not appalling to wonder what, if anything, was said to the professor by her students. It goes to whether she was relaying facts or just her impression about what her students were feeling…or if her own ideology regarding the topic affected her decision-making process. If we are asking the question… ‘how much personal freedom are we willing to sacrifice in the interest of political correctness?’… it’s information that would be helpful.</p>

<p>I doubt that any of us – or the professor – would admit to being willing to sacrifice ANY personal freedom in the interest of political correctness.</p>

<p>If I remember correctly, the phrase “PC” or “politically correct” was used positively for about two weeks in the late 70s. Since then, the only time anyone uses the phrase is to accuse someone else of enforcing it. No one will say, “I support Political Correctness! I want to make certain no one ever violates it!”</p>

<p>The issue here is, without regard to political correctness, was there a reasonable concern that this young man was, at best, violating university policy, and at worst endangering others? We are ALL willing to sacrifice a little personal freedom to protect our college students.</p>

<h2>“We are ALL willing to sacrifice a little personal freedom to protect our college students.”</h2>

<p>Except of course, if one is not protecting college students at all, but just indulging one’s own personal belief system with regard to gun control. Then it’s not really about the students at all is it?</p>