<p>well-said farbdogg71.</p>
<p>I don’t think most people care where you went to school. They go by grades, no matter where you went, because it shows you are the best you can be. I think that is the only fair way,</p>
<p>I think that this may be a fair generalization, but it’s important to bear in mind that the truth of this is also entirely dependent upon each employer, especially in positions where potential employees are evaluated on highly individual bases. For example, I go to school in Claremont. If I look for a job in the Midwest or East, chances are high that my employer will not be very familiar with where I went to school. If I decide to stay in Claremont, however, most employers would be very familiar with the schools and their status. This is also why resources such as alumni networking are so helpful. </p>
<p>It’s also dependent upon what kind of employment you’re looking for. Even though many have never heard of Harvey Mudd, it’s a valuable degree within the technical world. Likewise with many schools that have particularly renowned departments, despite the mediocrity or lesser-known status of the school in general.</p>
<p>I’m not disagreeing with farbdogg at all, just bringing up the fact that no conclusion we reach in this thread will be without its exceptions, and I think it discredits the vast majority of schools without nation-wide name recognition to presume no post-graduation distinction, whatsoever.</p>
<p>But if you go to Michigan,let;s say, and the person hiring went there too, you are almost guaranteed.</p>
<p>Ivy-League status is nothing but a prestige crutch for the Lesser Five. Cornell, Brown, UPenn, Dartmouth, and Columbia are not great schools in their own right. If you mention that you go to Columbia, you will get a blank stare. People will ask you, “Where is that school again?” You have to say that you go to Columbia, an IVY LEAGUE school, in order to get any recognition. But that brings up a dilemna. First, you would sound elitist if you constantly tell people that your school is ivy league. Second, you won’t be able to write this on your resume: “Columbia University Class of 2008. Ivy Leaguer.” </p>
<p>Anyone who knows that Columbia is an ivy league school is probably educated enough to judge the school for its worth instead of judging it by its ivy league status. So if they have a choice of picking somebody from MIT or picking somebody from Columbia, all things being equal they will choose the MIT grad simply because MIT is a better school. In the end, it’s the name of the school you go to that matters, not the league it is in. Stanford may not officially be in the ivy league, but its name is a hell of a lot more impressive than a Lesser Five school. Same goes for MIT.</p>
<p>On the Sopranos, someone said that they thought Meadow went to the Columbia School of Broadcasting, which I think is a matchbook school.</p>
<p>Student615,</p>
<p>I agree whole heartedly, </p>
<p>alot of this is really a regional matter. It’s not some zero-sum game winner take all. There are way to many variables for that.</p>
<p>Gutrade,</p>
<p>What Ivy did you attend?
if not Ivy, what school?
You seem to know way too much for one person.
You must have gone to the best school in the world, nay all the schools in the world.
Your parents must have been so proud, but you really should move on now. You can’t be a collge student forever.</p>
<p>IDK what this “lesser 5” stuff is but what if you went to Wharton or the Cornell School of Hotel Managment- this isn’t a cut and dry thing here</p>
<p>I don’t understand demeaning teenagers for having been accepted to any school, including the non-HYP ivies, etc… Perhaps some of the posters with more insight could make this clearer to people like me who think that going to the school you dreamed of attending is not a “lesser” thing.
Did they work that hard only to be childishly abused by resentful posters?</p>
<p>“lesser-5” …is this a technical term? Or a childish attack?
Are the “lesser-5” identically lesser, and thus the same school with no differences, or are they individual schools that happen to be highly valued by grad schools, employers and parents, each having their own character and reputation?</p>
<p>Is it considered to be a negative to be attending an ivy school, a failure of sorts.</p>
<p>Or, as I believe, is it a form of resentment from those believe that their school is not valued enough?</p>
<p>I think Lesser Five is probably a term people use to describle the ivies that do not meet the quality and reputation of HYPS.</p>
<p>“Or, as I believe, is it a form of resentment from those believe that their school is not valued enough?”</p>
<p>woodwork, of course you are correct! </p>
<p>This term seems to have cropped up on this board about 3-4 weeks ago from posters that don’t attend Ivy or near-Ivy (MIT, Stan, Duke etc.) schools. You can’t give credit to ■■■■■■ such as Gutrude/Collegeperson12/ubermunch that are practically foaming at the mouth to attack Ivy league schools…some of them barely have 30 posts, and each one is a bitter, bitter retaliation. </p>
<p>If they are so filled with Ivy-Envy, maybe they can try to transfer into an Ivy for grad school or something…there’s no need drip venom at the sight of an Ivy :)</p>
<p>It this really amazing to me that some posts on this board seem to have it as their mission to storm the walls of the ivy-league.
I’ve visied all 8 ivies sites and haven’t seen any posts that are directed at non-ivy schools. Is it because they have a certain confidence in their choices and don’t need to bring down other schools in order to be content with there choicalkines, or are we talking about an entirely different environment?</p>
<p>Check the Ivy forums. There is no denigrating non-ivies.</p>
<p>
I would die to get in any Ivy, except Cornell maybe.</p>
<p>Woodwork, Gollub,</p>
<p>Please. This is beyond insufferable. Try to get over yourselves with this tiring attempt to paint every effort to see a broader picture as “Ivy envy.” Woodwork in particular seems to take delight in intentionally misinterpreting comments to find this so-called “Ivy envy.” Many long-time rational posters on this Board – those who enjoy balanced discussion, not cheerleading agendas and/or sophistry – have raised good-faith points designed to stop you from this really silly “witch-hunt.” You don’t seem interested in any serious discussion, only having some fun, tossing-out some clever barbs, having a little joust. Do you think it’s any accident that all serious discussion with you has effectively stopped?</p>
<p>As to your thesis --Are there people with “Ivy envy?” Of course, and some people don’t believe men ever walked on the Moon either. But it’s rather insulting of you to not give people more credit. Most people on these Boards are very well aware that ALL 8 Ivies are incredible universities, some more for undergraduate study than graduate study, others for the reverse, some in certain majors, others in different majors. It’s certainly likely that most of the exceptionally talented people on this Board – or their children – have applied to one or more Ivies, or at least strongly considered applying to some. Despite your chest-thumping and belittling, the universe of “elite universities” extends beyond the eight Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>It’s a little naive to think that you have your Ivies (ranked one through eight in some order) … then … gap … the rest of the colleges in some order, but who really cares since they’re not Ivies anyway? You’re either having a lot of fun with hyperbole, or, you are myopic beyond belief. There are plenty of amazing colleges BETTER for certain people, with certain interests, with certain desires, with certain preferences, than ANY Ivy. Why should that simple, harmless thought throw your world into disarray? It says nothing about the overall quality of either HYP or the other Ivies (and you’d never hear me say “lesser” Ivies for the same reason that it makes no sense to call many, many, many other outstanding colleges as “lesser TO the Ivies”). EVERY Ivy is undoubtedly in the top 50 country by anybody’s measure – most of the Ivies are very, very high on that list. No other group of universities (grouped by athletic conference or otherwise) can boast the same.</p>
<p>Pardon the length of this post. As Mark Twain quipped, “if I had more time, it would have been shorter.” I’m not interested in playing this game with you because I certainly do give the Ivies their due. They have many outstanding qualities and there is no questioning their unparalleled cachet of prestige and connections. That being said, tremendous academics, wonderful fit, and prestige and connections aplenty, can also be found at so many elite schools in this country, including without limitation the following (and in no particular order): Stanford, Duke, Chicago, NU, Hopkins, Rice, MIT, CalTech, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Carleton, Pomona, and the list goes on and on.</p>
<p>I have an Uncle who has taught history, law, and sometimes both at Harvard, Columbia, Cornell, and Chicago. He steadfastly believed that the students at Chicago were far more engaged, far more interested in academics and learning, far more studious than the students at the other three. Chicago certainly has this reputation – as does Swarthmore and many others. Believe my Uncle or not; believe the general reputation or not. But for you to not even acknowledge that some schools – for certain people, in certain circumstances, and in certain ways – are the equal of or better than the hallowed Ivies, is being so smug in your provincialism that you just can’t (or won’t) face the truth.</p>
<p>Feel free to hurl your barbs. I won’t play. I’ve said what I’ve had to say. The truth as I see it. Period. I have no interest in further discussion on these points because you have clearly shown yourself to have no interest in any real discussion anyway.</p>
<p>I think that Woodwork brings up a VERY valid point, even if it has been expressed many times here at college confidential:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>People here seem to look down on non-HYPSM schools. (DUH, I know.) If somebody brings up UPenn, an excellent school, suddenly people are like “WELLLL, it’s not as good as HYP so it’s in the LOWER part of the Ivy League.” It’s even worse for a school not carrying the Ivy name, like Duke or Rice, and poor WUStl. get’s smashed on these boards. THESE ARE ALL GREAT SCHOOLS. They see schools only in the context of their admissions. WUStl. sends out lots of mailings to increase interest in the school, suddenly it’s a school full of people trying to hype themselves up and look good! How could a school like THAT ever actually have substance!? Cornell has a higher acceptance rate than the other Ivies, and this is always used to bash the school when it really has nothing to do with its quality.</p>
<p>Anyways, I too have been on this board a long time, and this argument has been made a lot so I won’t go overboard, but don’t attack Woodwork, because I think she’s right to some degree.</p>
<p>You pretty much just agreed with DudeDiligence, who I assume your reply was to, ay_caramba.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s like with cars, Harvard Yale and Princeton are a Mercedes, but a Hyunadi like a lower Ivy will get you there just as well.</p>
<p>“It’s like with cars, Harvard Yale and Princeton are a Mercedes, but a Hyunadi like a lower Ivy will get you there just as well.”</p>
<p>Dudediligence - it is comments like the above that so lividly paint the image of Ivy-Envy. Comparing Ivy league schools to the hyunadi…I hope you can see the bitterness in that comment. How do you expect anyone to take such a comment seriously? You know well that several students are jealous of friends/relatives that got into an Ivy, and spare no expense to degrade those schools!! If I listened only to one my princeton-rejected friends (i.e. comments such as Princeton has no medical school, no business school, filled with HY rejects that can’t wait to transfer out etc.), I would think Princeton is a dump that should implode and commit suicide. Thank God other, more reasonable opinions are also allowed to be voiced, otherwise Ivy-abolishionists would have everyone thinking that the Ivy League schools are trade schools that survive only by swindling students out of their parents money.</p>
<p>Hey genius, you do realize he wasn’t putting them down, only pointing out the fact that a degree from any Ivy is good, despite the fact that some are more “recognized”?</p>
<ol>
<li>Dudediligence didn’t make the car comment.</li>
<li>DD’s last post DID acknowledge the existence of Ivy-Envy.</li>
<li>DD’s post, as I understood it, served in NO way to degrade any of the Ivies, nor did it ever refer directly to what other people are calling “Lesser” or “Near” Ivies.</li>
</ol>
<p>Just to point that out. I think at this point, people are assuming they’re being attacked and taking some of these posts out of context. For the most part, the most recent posters seem to be in some level of agreement with one another, but are failing to interpret each others’ arguments in such a way.</p>
<p>Schools that are Ivies are good schools. Many schools that are not Ivies are good schools. EVERY school is good for SOME students. No Ivy is perfect. No other school is perfect. In the end, I agree with those who’ve said that school is about fit. If national/international prestige is of maximum value to you, then there are certain schools that it would make more sense to attend. If this is of lesser value, then it’s not only unshameful, but wise to choose to attend a school that does better fit your specific needs and values. As for the car analogy, well, I drive an old, cheap Ford. My sister’s just gotten her license and there’s talk in my family about getting a newer, nicer car for us. Personally, I like my current car, for however many random reasons. This doesn’t mean that I don’t pass a sports car and go “phew, nice car,” but it also doesn’t mean that I want to trade mine in for that. What’s wrong with the simple philosophy “to each his own”?</p>