<p>Sorry to be late replying but I have been out of town.</p>
<p>Starting salaries in locations other than major US cities (Washington, NY, Chicago, LA, SF, Houston,for example) will be less than in those cities and starting salaries in smaller firms will be less than those in larger firms. In general, however, most IP attorneys work more than 40 hours per week. I would say at least 45-50 hours is more common. How much more than 40 will depend on the particular employer.</p>
<p>I once thought of supplementing my education with a degree in patent law. I have a Ph.D. in physics. However when I started reading the patents associated with my inventions and the junk the lawyers put in to cover all kinds of absurdities, I couldn’t stand it! I couldn’t read more than 1/2 a page at a time. It really takes a particular kind of person to write a patent with all the claims.</p>
<p>DocT: Flattery will get you nowhere with me. But I agree that some patents contain a lot of garbage. On the other hand, what may seem like junk to you is often included to meet the requirements of patent law, which are very different from those of a peer-reviewed publication.</p>
<p>I have a few questions that have popped up, dadofsam…I hope you are still reading here!</p>
<p>(1) Does the bar pass rate indicate anything about the quality of the school, and is it a nearly perfect correlation?</p>
<p>(2) Do patent attorneys typically put in the brutal 60 to 80 hour work weeks?</p>
<p>(3) Son now plans to get his MS in engineering immediately after undergrad. Will this make him more marketable to a patent department/firm down the road? Do they care about actual work experience in the engineering field?</p>
<p>(4) Will having the MS make him more or less attractive to law schools?</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>lkf725:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Yes, just about absolutely. One should attend a law school with as good a pass rate as one can. However, since “quality” isn’t readily quantifiable, the correlation can’t be said to be near-perfect. But it’s a pretty good correlation.</p></li>
<li><p>Please see my previous post on this question.</p></li>
<li><p>In most engineering fields a bachelor’s degree is sufficient to carry on patent work - unless the work is in a very sophisticated technology. In general, a law student with a master’s degree and/or work experience will get more consideration than one with a bachelor’s degree or no experience. Employers, both law firms and corporations, usually will prefer the candidatde with the most qualifications over one having the minimum. Law school grades and class standing are important, so is participation in a law review or otehr journal or on a moot court team in competition. These all amount to extra efforts and, in some cases, higher-level scholastic work. An advanced technical degree or work experience, however, can offset lack of some of these.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I always tell my son that, like it or not, competition is heavy for the best jobs, and having only the minimum qualifications, even though they may meet announced requirements for a given position, is not a recommended strategy. </p>
<ol>
<li>Sorry, I am not informed on law school admissions.</li>
</ol>
<p>Hi DOS,</p>
<p>The first of three links in post #1 on this thread seems to have expired. Any chance you know where I can look for an equivalent?</p>
<p>Thanks so much dadofsam! I appreciate your knowledgable advice. :)</p>
<p>The PTO has reconfigured its website. Information on qualifying to take the examination is now found at <a href=“http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/grb.pdf[/url]”>http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/grb.pdf</a></p>
<p>Thanks for all your help. It’s much appreciated.</p>
<p>dadofsam,</p>
<p>I have heard time and time again that engineers make great IP lawyers. As an engineer currently pursuing law school, could you give me some insight as to why a background in engineering is beneficial to becoming an IP lawyer?</p>
<p>My husband applied for a patent (through an attorney) 3-4 years ago and has not received an answer from the patent office.</p>
<p>Also, oddly, my son’s Science Fair project has shown up a very recent issue of a magazine. He has never applied for a patent for it, because it is very expensive. Do you have any suggestions for students who do engineering projects for Science Fairs?</p>
<p>Would it be costly to apply for a patent for a protein he has researched?</p>
<p>Saxonthebeach: Some engineers can make good patent lawyers, some can’t. likewise for other scientific disciplines. One must have a scientific or engineering degree, or a substantial amount of coursework in such subjects, in order to qualify for becoming a patent attorney. One must also be able to understand the technology involved in the patents handled, and finally one must be able to be satisifed with dealing with legal as much as technical issues, and with not carrying out any real engineering.</p>
<p>Amom2: if your H’s invention is in electronics or Internet processing, I’m afraid that the patent office has about a four-year backlog in getting to the examination. If it’s in other technology, the backlog is less. Some of that information is posted on the PTO website, uspto.gov.</p>
<p>I don’t wish to give cost estimates for filing a particular patent application on this board. As far as science fair inventions are concerned, they are in general as patentable as any others. The question, as with most inventions, is whether the cost of a patent application would be worth it. The answer may be in terms of possible income from selling or licensing the patent, or it may lie in terms of satisfaction that one has obtained a patent. The value, as with the beauty, is in the eye (or pocketbook) of the beholder.</p>
<p>Hi dadofsam,</p>
<p>Ive read through all your posts and they are very informative. I am currently in law school at Franklin Pierce and I am doing very well (top 5%). I came to FP for their IP program. My issue right now is that I want to work in my home state of NC. FP has a good placement record when it comes to IP students. My issue is I am not sure if i will really like IP law once I get into the heart of the subject during my 2L year. So right now I am considering trying to transfer to UNC law school. I know if I want to stay in IP I should probably stay at FP. But if I dont like IP then UNC would be a better choice. So I was wondering if you could give me more insight into the daily life of a patent attorney. Anything that will give me a better idea of what i am getting into. If it is of any significance, my technical degree is in computer science. Does this mean that I will be examining code a lot, etc…</p>
<p>Thank you very much!!</p>
<p>A day in the life… Well, the day would vary a bit depending on whether you were employed as a patent attorney or in IP litigation, at a company or at a law firm. But I’ll try to summarize anyway.</p>
<p>If you will be working as a straight patent attorney, with a CS degree you probably would be working on patents in information technology in general, computer software applications, Internet-related inventions, and maybe even hardware. That would depend on how much general engineering you had, as well as on the products of your employer (if at a company) or of clients handled by your law firm.</p>
<p>If in-house you woud be meeting with inventors, attending R&D meetings, writing up patent applications and “prosecuting” thenm., i.e., dealing with actions by patent offices in the US and perhaps other countries, in order to get patents on the applications that have been written.</p>
<p>If you are a patent prosecutor at a law firm you normally would not be attending R&D meetings and your direct discussions with inventors woulld be much less frequent. However, you might have the opportunity to work on some of the hottest new hi-tech inventions, since most likely you will be working for multiple clients.</p>
<p>In either function you also will eventually be spending some time evaluating patents of competitors and assessing your company’s or clients’ products for possible patent infringement.</p>
<p>If you are engaged in patent litigation you will not be writing or prosecuting patent applications or meeting with inventors but will be assessing the validity of patents, whether there is an infringement, and the strategies for litigating cases you will be working on. In the beginning, however, you will be doing a lot of drudge-type work such as reviewing documents and otherwise working on discovery issues, i.e finding out information about the other side’s case and situation while dealing with their activities to learn about yours.</p>
<p>4 YEARS? The federal government should maybe patent backlog-creating technology. Since they seem to be so good at creating them.</p>
<p>Hey - I’m currently majoring in Industrial Engineering. I know my major qualifies me to take the Patent Bar, but I’m just curious to how difficult it would be for me. I know Industrial Engineering isn’t as technical as other engineering disciplines, but since I meet the requirements to take the Patent Bar, would I have as good a chance at passing? Would an Industrial Engineering Patent Attorney be less desirable for hiring? (please no imaginary jokes)</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Marines920: A degree in industrial engineering will make you eligible for the patent bar and provides a good background for some jobs in patents. However, the Patent Bar exam has nothing to do with any type of engineering. It is an exam in the rules and practices of the US Patent & Trademark Office and in drafting and working with patent applications in general. In order to pass it, you’ll have to learn about those. Self-study will get you part of the way but in general I strongly recommend anyone taking that exam to first take a review course. There are several of them given; they take 5-7 days each.</p>
<p>I have 2 general questions about IP/Patent law that hopefully can be answered here.<br>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Many in house positions, as with pharma companies, require experience. They don’t have the time or manpower to train. That experience typically comes from law firms. Additionally, the jobs you see advertised are for experienced attorneys, even with law firms. Firms typically do not advertise for entry level positions - they recruit from the law schools for these.</p>
<p>Some people go to law school right after college or graduate school; some work first. In my opinion one shouldn’t be going to law school unless one is pretty certain one wishes to be a lawyer, and some people take some time to figure out if that’s what they want.</p>
<p>As far as entry-level positions there have historically been a few companies that will take newly-minted patent attorneys and train them, and a much larger number that preferred not to do that. Generally patent attorneys get their training (a) in the Federal government, either as a patent examiner or as a patent attorney in a government agency, (b) in a larger IP law firm or (c) in certain companies. For law firms some people start out as described in one of my earlier posts as a technical advisor or similar title, doing patent and literature searches and helping write some patent applications.</p>
<p>Bear in mind that, in addition to the usual difficulties in obtaining entry-level jobs, IP law is seen as a “hot” area and a lot of people are trying to get into it becaue of that, including a number whose initial aim was to be a scientist, engineer, or doctor.</p>