Overwhelmed with college mail

<p>“I wonder why they are recruiting hispanics and native americans?” </p>

<p>Fiske is recruiting to become more diverse. I visited North Carolina Central University once, also a historically blacks-only university (under explicit segregation laws in that state) and heard from an official there that NCCU was actively trying to diversify the students admitted. I sat in on a law school class there in the late 1980s: most of the students, as I remember, were black, but quite a few were white. </p>

<p>I think the general argument is that it’s simply better education for everyone on campus if the campus “looks like America” and reflects all the diversity of people who might be in its potential applicant pool. It’s a tricky issue to decide whether it is “better” that every college be diverse in that sense, or whether some colleges should be distinctive, even ethnically distinctive, as many colleges once were. Here in the United States no one person does decide that issue: instead, hundreds of colleges decide that issue one campus at a time, with some constraint by the Constitution (especially for state colleges) and some constraint by statute (for all colleges). </p>

<p>Personally, my taste in applying to colleges is to apply to colleges where it goes without saying that you’ll meet every which kind of people there, but some people like to go to colleges with a large number of people similar to themselves.</p>

<p>Yes, I can’t imagine going to school with everyone being Mexican. It’s like the opposite of “A Day W/O A Mexican”. lol. That would get boring, I think. That’s a reason why I like MIT - they have a super diverse group of people.</p>

<pre><code>* 1% American Indian/Alaskan Native

  • 28% Asian/Pacific Islander
  • 6% Black/Non-Hispanic
  • 12% Hispanic
  • 36% White/Non-Hispanic
  • 7% Non-Resident Alien
  • 10% Race/ethnicity unreported
    </code></pre>

<p>…mostly because I’m putting off (in no particular order) dishes, sewing and taxes. </p>

<p>I’m really curious about how colleges “decide” who is going to receive their mailings. We went through the initial rush right after the PSATs, so it was obvious that my daughter must have checked the send-me-info box. Most of the mailings at that point were LACs, mostly small and relatively unknown (read that as mostly midwestern, so they weren’t necessarily unknown to us). Then came LACs that we actually knew something about (LACs that are often seen on these boards), and in the past two weeks or so, the universities have moved in…Purdue, Northwestern, Tulane, NYU, and University of Alabama-Huntsville (?!). Is it just that my daughter’s PSAT scores met some pre-determined threshold? I really didn’t think her PSAT scores were all that great, but some of the schools she’s getting mail from are fairly selective (e.g. Kenyon and Grinnell). </p>

<p>Oh well, at least the counseling office at my daughter’s school is benefitting from all this…they’re getting all the materials that don’t interest my daughter.</p>

<p>I’ve got you all beat. We’re received mail from Keuka College in somewhere NY since PSAT days. My D gets something at least weekly and now they are calling! I answered the phone the first time and kindly said Keuka was not on her list. The caller got a little testy and hung up. We have receive two more calls!</p>

<p>“Personally, my taste in applying to colleges is to apply to colleges where it goes without saying that you’ll meet every which kind of people there, but some people like to go to colleges with a large number of people similar to themselves.”</p>

<p>Most people, however, go to colleges in which the majority of students are similar to themselves. That’s not something that’s true, however, for most URMs except for, for instance, black students going to HBCUs.</p>

<p>Think about it: About one-third of students at Ivies are Asian. The majority of the rest are white. White students and Asian students at such schools have many peers of their race.</p>

<p>At most state universities that are not HBCUs, most students are either Asian (as is the case in many California colleges) or are white. If either whites or Asians want to hang around mainly with people of their own race, it’s easy to do so even in their core classes.</p>

<p>I agree that the sheer amount of college mail I have been receiving has become a bit overwhelming, however, I really like getting mail. If colleges didn’t send me 5-10 pieces of mail every day, I would never have anything fun to open once I come home from lacrosse practice. Most of it is definitely junk, but there is the occasional gem thrown in every few days… I just got one from Yale.</p>

<p>Hi, Northstarmom, you’re replying to an old reply of mine, so I’ll make a fresh reply to your reply. </p>

<p>One of the big reasons I’m enamored of several out-of-state colleges as I think way ahead about my children and where they might apply is the trade-off I experienced as a student at my state university. On the one hand, my state university was ENORMOUSLY more ethnically diverse, and substantially more socioeconomically diverse, than the public high school I attended, because it reflected the whole range of diversity on either of those dimensions found in the state population. I recall a thread where you asked another CC participant if he has ever had any close black friends. For me, my first close black friend was a guy who I knew by name from high school debate tournaments, who was my classmate in my Chinese class from the first day I started taking classes at State U. We were inseparable buddies for as long as we were both at the U. and hung out a lot outside of class. That was an experience I had been looking forward to before I attended the U., because I had had several teachers who did a lot of consciousness-raising about civil rights issues with me. But those teachers and the other open-minded adults (including my parents) I grew up with couldn’t personally undo the undoubted redlining that used to occur in housing patterns in suburban Minnesota, until laws forced the real estate market to open up. (My high school graduating class in the mid-1970s had NO blacks and only two Asian-Americans. That’s a little less weird in mostly white Minnesota than in most states, but I’m glad to report that today, in what was originally an even more blatantly red-lined suburb than the one I grew up in, we have neighbors of every which ethnicity just a few doors down from our townhouse, and my children play with all of them.) </p>

<p>So that was the good news. I went to college, and I had a much more diverse experience (also in terms of meeting both richer, much richer, and somewhat poorer people than I grew up with) than I had had in high school. Alas, I had to stop out of college because I simply didn’t have enough money to go straight through, and my buddy from Chinese class eventually transfered into early admission to a theological seminary, after which I lost contact with him. When I resumed my studies at State U., I continued to meet a varied group of people, but the people I knew best were co-workers, as I had to stay at work continually to pay the rent and pay tuition. </p>

<p>I lived overseas for three years after my undergraduate degree, living in an international dorm with students from every continent and nearly every inhabited island in the world. Then I realized what I had missed by going to the state university in my home state: geographical origin diversity among American students. I have always found it pretty easy to strike up friendships with international students, especially after my own international experience, but when I came back from overseas I had a passionate urge to visit and understand all the parts of the United States I had never been to. Fortunately, my urge was fulfilled when I got work as a contract Chinese-English interpreter and traveled all over the United States. It was on interpreting trips that I first visited your alma mater and its environs, and some of the trips focused on various aspects of higher education in the United States–hence my visit to historically black North Carolina Central University, with extensive conversations with the school officials that I interpreted for a foreign lawyer. </p>

<p>After all that travel, and especially after living overseas and meeting people from countries all over the world, I cherish all aspects of human diversity. I’m glad that there are people at Harvard who are trying to increase the socioeconomic diversity of people entering that school. It happened in my case as a first-year undergraduate that I had considerably more rapport, irrespective of race, with people whose family income level was roughly equal to mine (as was the case with my classmate in the Chinese class) rather than with people arguably of the same ethnic heritage but whose families were wealthier (as was the case with most of my classmates in my freshman biology class, who mostly were premed students). Maybe that’s just me, but that’s how I feel social distance: not by where somebody’s ancestors were living a few centuries ago, or by what kind of visible features someone has, but by how much somebody thinks money is something to be taken for granted. I have observed that for many people racial categories matter a lot in social interaction (and have additionally observed that racial categories aren’t the same in all countries). I’d like my children to continue their current experience of making friends with people from every imaginable ethnic group when they to go to college, and would also like them to be able to meet richer people (which would surely be possible) and poorer people (which is barely possible, in a college environment) when they do that. And I also hope they meet people from all over the world, and specifically from all over the United States. My alma mater is still diverse in the way in way it was when I went to it, and may have more students of color than ever before, but I hope my children can gain admittance to a college that has a much lower percentage of Minnesotans and a much greater percentage of people from all other places when they decide where to apply to pursue their passions. </p>

<p>Thanks for sharing your comments in the thread.</p>

<p>I’m really curious about how colleges “decide” who is going to receive their mailings. >></p>

<p>Mezzomom, I’ve done a bit of research on this. It’s definitely much more than the PSAT scores for many schools. Each school has specific marketing goals and they can buy names from the college board based on their specific marketing goals.</p>

<p>Some schools, for instance, ask for names that not only are at a certain score level, they also want a certain GPA or other factors that students self-reported on the registration materials. Some schools seem to focus on high scores in a particular areas of the PSAT - for instance, high writing scores.</p>

<p>However, more importantly, Many schools now use zip code demographics — this is a sophisticated software program that divides the US up by income, educational level, home ownership, etc. based on zip code. Marketers can then identify which zip codes are likely to have the consumers who are most likely to “buy” their product. </p>

<p>For colleges, this means they often send marketing materials to students who meet a certain thresh hold of score BUT ALSO live in areas where it is likely their parents have a certain level of income. If they know they need a certain amount of “full pay” students, they might put the emphasis on high income areas. If they are trying to increase their geographic and racial diversity, they might mail to zips likely to have students that fit that profile.</p>

<p>Schools can also cross-reference this info. to create a database that includes zips where they have successfully recruited students from in the past. Thus, someone on the west coast is less likely to receive mailings from schools in the midwest or the northeast, even though they might have very similiar scores to those </p>

<p>For instance, my daughter attends a high school that is in a city yet we live in a rural area that has a high income level. She has friends who live throughout the area. She has commented that she and her friends who live in “upper income” areas are definitely getting different mail from colleges than her friends who live in “low income” areas. It seems that much of this mail has very little to do with PSAT scores - once you are at a certain thresh hold of score, the schools look for other factors in deciding who to mail to.</p>

<p>Again, it is important to remember that mailings from colleges NEVER mean you have some sort of “in” with that school in terms of admissions. Rather, it is more likely that you just fall into a general category that the school is marketing to — there is NEVER any implied assurance of acceptance from any of these mailings. I always feel sorry for folks when they mention that they or their child must have a good chance at a particular school because they are receiving so many mailings from them. Remember, colleges can buy the names from the college board for literally pennies and many, many colleges today hire outside marketing firms to handle their mailings. In other words, these mailings are NOT coming from admissions directly, but rather from a marketing company who is simply sending out the mailings based on the school’s marketing goals.</p>

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<p>Well, that’s definitely not us! :D</p>

<p>I appreciate your insight into the marketing process; the college mail has been all over the place, and I wasn’t sure what sort of information could be culled from the PSATs that would explain the apparent randomness. It’s been interesting to receive the mail, and oftentimes, amusing. I wish you could have seen the puzzled look on my daughter’s face when we received the info from University of Alabama-Huntsville; definitely not a school on anyone’s radar in this neck of the woods!</p>

<p>Fortunately, my daughter is very grounded, so she isn’t getting her head turned by any of the “name” schools…although I admit to a certain pleasure when she received the info from Kenyon. But she once read a description of Kenyon that referred to “sheep grazing country of Ohio”, so I’m not sure I’ll ever get my urban-wannabe daughter to look twice at the information!</p>

<p>Carolyn, I wonder what the marketers do about zip codes like mine. It’s long and narrow, and includes multi-million dollar homes, public housing, and everything in between, and it’s probably evenly divided across all income levels.</p>

<p>I’m sure my ZIP code confuses people too. I generally give just my five-digit ZIP code to strangers, and my full ZIP+4 code to friends. We live in a little working class enclave of an EXTREMELY rich neighborhood (think European vacations and summer sailing lessons as routine) where my wife can find piano teaching clients who can afford to pay her what she is worth. We were at food stamp levels of income just a few years ago when we were living overseas, and have no financial assets. So it will be interesting to me to see what kinds of college mail we get after our oldest son takes the PSAT.</p>

<p>My daughter changed her intended major from last year’s PSAT to this year’s PSAT. Just today she received a very specific piece of mail that related to last year’s major!</p>

<p>Side note: my son keeps wondering where his mail is.</p>

<p>“and many, many colleges today hire outside marketing firms to handle their mailings”</p>

<p>They sure do. My son received a mailing today from a college in NYC, but the mailing zip code was Richmond VA.</p>

<p>Regarding zip codes - check your mail. Just about everything will have a 9-digit zip code whether or not you put it down on your forms. Computer programs not only assign the 9-digit zips, but also sort the mail, standardize addresses, print bar codes, etc. to qualify for the lowest mailing rate. I imagine that the mailing companies have programs that pinpoint portions of 5-digit zip codes based upon the 9-digit codes.</p>

<p>You’d be surprised at all the arcane details that go into mailings. College graduates actually discuss whether “Main Street” will appear on the envelope as “Main St.” or “Main St” and whether or not a comma will appear after the city name. The post office prefers that there be no comma, but many non-profits put one there because they think it makes the mail look more personalized.</p>

<p>Well I know were one place where I was targeted and that is the CollegeReviews site. I asked for info on ONE college to be sent to me through that site and just as I was hitting the submit button I noticed my fingers must have slipped and I spelled my last name wrong. I’ve gotten probably 100 pieces of mail with my last name spelled just as I had misspelled it when requesting that one piece of info.</p>

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<p>Yes, Ellen is correct that once they have your street address, they can find your ZIP+$ code, and there is probably a lot of demographic data that is available in such fine-grained units. </p>

<p>[Running downstairs to check mail file:] I see that the only piece of college mail my son has so far received (after attending a certain college’s regional information session this year) has various code numbers on the mailing label, and is addressed only with our five-digit ZIP code. But of course that college knows our full address. I was actually surprised that only this college has put my son on a mailing list, after several visits to information sessions, but his intended year of “high school graduation” (from homeschooling) is still years away, and I guess the other colleges aren’t THAT eager to kill trees to market themselves. We appreciate the mail we got, but understand the lack of mail from the other schools. Post-PSAT things may be different.</p>