“I have a hard time believing professors would be okay with this.”
Ha! Most professor would be so thrilled to get a paper that had already been through the editing process that they wouldn’t care WHO had done the editing.
One my sons friends was home on spring break from a college across the country. He and my husband discussed a paper he was working on over dinner one night. After he got back to school he wrote the paper, including reading a secondary resource that my husband had suggested to him. His professor remarked that it was good find, and the kid told the prof that he had been tipped to it by my husband. Turns out the professor and my husband had gone to grad school together and taken a class on Kant together and both would have read the same article at time. The prof had no problem with this.
The OP can certainly speak for herself but I don’t read it that way. I remember being a chaperone for a kindergarten event and sitting with the kids as they created collages. I helped the kids use glue and glitter and all sorts of messy things. They had a blast. I watched another chaperone hover over her daughter, direct her where to put every last cotton ball, glue and glitter accent, the works. At the end of the project, adults came over and remarked on her daughter’s work. She smiled at them and said proudly, “And she did it all by herself.” I said nothing and believe me, it meant nothing to me personally, but I have never forgotten that interaction. My reaction to the bragging about the grades is the same. Depending on the level of involvement, the final paper may not be the kid’s work, yet the parents are gushing over it as if it is.
Add to that, the parent may not even be aware how much his/her influence shaped the paper or kept the kid from developing relationships with other adults. Forget about the issue of academic integrity. It’s so important for young adults to learn to find assistance beyond the limits of their family. One of the highlights of my older daughters’ college experiences was working closely with professors, learning to think differently, ask for help, find new resources. Frankly, the profs they worked with were far better at editing than I ever could be. And when they entered the working world, they were very well equipped to take those networking skills with them.
@lololu, I don’t think there is a problem with what you describe. Talking over a paper before it’s written and suggesting a good source is qualitatively different from editing/rewriting one that’s already been written.
@lololu Your husband is a professor that the other professor knew. I doubt that example is relevant to any everyday student getting help from parents.
I’ll stand by my statement. My kids’ boarding school teachers would not have approved. Parents were pretty much told that wasn’t their place. I doubt their college professors would like it either.
While one parent might consider editing grammar/punctuation issues, another parent could totally rewrite.
Honestly, if a student needs help that school resources cannot handle (doubtful) even more reason to use school resources and seek out a more remedial writing class.
A well prepared college student shouldn’t need help from a parent. A lot of justifying seems to be going on in this thread. Why the need to be involved instead of using the resources provided? Isn’t that what you are paying for? Isn’t independence part of the college experience? How does one learn to become a better writer if they aren’t going through the painful process themselves?
I’m currently a college junior (STEM majors, performing arts minors).
It depends on the paper, but my mom (and sometimes my dad) has in the past helped with editing my larger papers, including in college (although they did help more with editing in high school). As a STEM person, writing is not my forte, and even with my mom’s help, we’re talking almost always getting B’s on papers. If I’m finishing late at night for something due the next day, I don’t send it to my parents- I’m on my own. I have to have written a draft at least several days before it is due for them to help.
I have ADD and often my thoughts aren’t as organized as I thought or as easy to follow, I have problems with run on sentences, etc. it’s not like they’re telling me what to write and what to say. Usually it’s underlining a sentence and saying, “this isn’t clear” or “break this up, there’s more than one idea here”. Sometimes my parents are familiar with the topic of the essay, which can be really helpful (because they can spot inaccuracies), but more often than not, they don’t, so if they can follow my paper, that’s a good sign. Last spring I took fourth semester German without previous formal education (I’m a heritage speaker), and my mom’s help on the essays was invaluable, since she’s a native speaker. I did still go to my professor for help on those assignments, but since I had never written in German before, my mom helped me get my writing to a level where the professor could understand what I was trying to say and then help with specific grammar issues. There’s no writing center help for foreign language papers and going directly to my professor from the beginning was not really an option (I had to schedule special appointments as it was since I had class during her office hours). My professor knew I was getting help from my mom and was perfectly okay with it.
We have writing consultants here on campus, but I haven’t found them to be helpful. They give the same boilerplate advice and often their suggestions erase your “voice”. My parents have worked with me enough that they know what sounds like me, and can give more individualized help. I think this is the case for other students as well. I don’t think there’s any issue in the way I do it, and the way most students do. Sure there may be some that are practically writing their child’s essays, but I don’t think that’s generally the case.
“editing/rewriting one that’s already been written”
Here is the problem. There is a world of difference between editing and rewriting. Every good writer needs a good editor, and a good editor is not a writer.
Editing a paper includes pointing out errors (both grammatical and factual), inconsistancies, missing thoughts, circular arguments, holes, etc, and it is up to the writer to correct them in their own voice.
Rewriting is just that, and no good editor would do that.
@3girls3cats, read the acknowledgments section of almost any book, fiction or nonfiction, and you will find authors thanking all manner of friends and family and professional editors for their help in crafting the finished product. Whether it’s a scholarly article, a scientific research paper, or a work of fiction, outside eyes are always involved after something is initially written. That’s what a first draft is for! As long as the help provided is no different than what the professor, TA or writing center would provide, why does it matter if the person providing the service is related to the student?
There is a line between parent editing for typos or grammar mistakes and parent taking on an inappropriate amount of the writing.
Parents who cross the line won’t admit it or won’t care that it’s inappropriate. The kind who is sensitive to it will be careful not to cross the line. I don’t think parents are really open to any suggestions on this subject. They’ll do what they want to do.
My daughter has contacted me two or three times this year as a freshman in college to get help on papers (I was an English minor) and I said no. She has the Writing Center at her disposal and she has free tutoring as an athlete if she chooses to use it. Plus, she always contacts me a day before the paper is actually due. It’s not that I mind helping- I actually enjoy editing- but I can’t stand a call the day before when I know she’s procrastinated.
Yes, I do get the distinction between editing and writing. I am not at all sure that parent editors do. I have expressed my discomfort with the practice and the reasons for that discomfort.
I also believe there’s a world of difference between the acknowledgements in a book and parental intervention in an undergrad-or grad level!-paper. Again, I’ve explained why I think parents should stay away from editing their children’s work.
I am 100% with @Nrdsb4. Parents who cross the line won’t admit it or won’t care that it’s inappropriate. In some cases, they won’t even realize that they have crossed the line.
Question for those editing their kids’ papers: When you were in college, did your parents edit your papers? If not, why do you think your kids need that kind of assistance?
Because both of them worked for at least a year on each of their theses, had advisors who were very busy, and had read them so many times over the year that they were the farthest thing from fresh eyes for the last read.
I also proofread resumes, job applications, and admissions essays.
"Maintaining a network of resources that is not limited to the current environment is actually much more valuable than artificially restricting oneself to just what is on hand. "
I am quite a few decades out of university and into working for a living, and “maintaining a network of resources” is probably the best thing that I can still do.
“There is a world of difference between editing and rewriting.”
I agree with this also. Saying “take another look at this sentence”, or “this word is mis-spelled” or “this thought is jumbled” is quite different from “here are three pages that you might want to include as is in the paper”.
"Parents who cross the line won’t admit it or won’t care that it’s inappropriate. In some cases, they won’t even realize that they have crossed the line. "
Both of my D’s learned to become much better writers and editors because I would comment on their work (when they asked) throughout high school and college. I considered it free private tutoring as I am a literacy teacher. You’d be surprised how little guidance students actually get in school when it comes to writing and editing. I felt more than happy to help and was gratified when I saw my “lessons” pay off.
My involvement was based on how much work their papers needed. Some papers elicited long discussions about their thesis and whether or not it addressed the prompt. Often their thesis was not specific enough–requiring them to do major re-writes. Other times, I would indicate throughout their paper where they needed more supporting details or further clarification. Sometimes my directions would be very general-- “this is too wordy” or “this is hard to understand.” I would sometimes circle words that needed to be varied, mark up grammatical errors, misspellings or substitutions.
I never took ownership of their papers, nor did I re-write them. If anything, it would have been much easier for them NOT to show me their work. But in the end, they learned by this process and that is the point of getting an education. PS–I also helped many a neighbor’s kids if they asked.
Reviewing and editing papers is a big part of my work. Learning to write well is a long and difficult process, and a good editor can help you a lot in this process. I myself use professional editors for important papers or grants and have a learned much about writing in the process. A prof or TA does not have the time, generally speaking, to give good feedback on writing; I know as I have taught and TA’ed plenty of classes. I have acted as an editor for all my kids for big papers and I’ve encouraged them to show me their drafts early in the semester in HS. It’s kind of a two-step process. I ask them to describe what the teacher is working on and then to show me the rubric. I then give them honest feedback on whether they have done what the teacher asked. Often they do not fully understand what the teacher wants—for example they do not fully understand the essay structure that the teacher has assigned. Or as in in college, they are assigned a paper but not given a particular structure to use and maybe ended up getting lazy and not using a structure or mixing them. I try not to give ‘content’ but I am definitely giving feedback on content. It’s often a challenging process and I have brought my kids to tears many times when I’ve told what they’ve written sucks and they need to start fresh or when I’ve taken out the scissors, tape and poster board and shown them how to re-structure their paper.
Reads for grammar (and spelling). They often ask me to do a final read for grammar. Usually I do a quick skim and if it is too rough, I give it back and tell them to re-edit before I look at it. Re the grammar, I definitely review things they are getting wrong and I keep mental notes and have them check for that before I look at the next paper.
For my kids in college, however, I only have gotten papers when they were stuck or it was a big paper. The latter are a ton of work, so I only agreed to do a final read. I also require (unless they really beg) that they visit the writing center first and use the school resources. I get pretty annoyed when I’m asked at 11pm to do a read. Not that I haven’t done it, but I complain a lot.
Is this helicoptering? Hmm, I definitely don’t see it that way. I’m helping them learn a difficult skill. Would you say I was helicoptering if I helped them learn to repair cars or to play an instrument or to play a sport? Do my kids have an advantage because I do this. Well, I hope so. The point is for them to learn to write well, and that is a skill that is very hard to learn.
P.S. In HS, they are required to add a note to the paper to say what kind of help they got and from whom. They school gives them guidelines on what kind of help is permitted and we stay in those guidelines. They do many in class essays too so the teacher definitely knows how they write without help.
My kids never wanted our help. They’ve been on their own with schoolwork and homework since they left grade school eons ago. They may ask each other (or peers or school) to be an extra pair of eyes and edit but never mom and dad. I’m not sure why or how this is. H and I do edit one another’s stuff and do a pretty good job.
When my kids were in college, they never asked for any help with any papers or schoolwork and I never gave any.
The only thing I have read over and edited since high school was early in their careers…resumes, cover letters for jobs, and graduate school admissions essays. That’s a bit different than work one is graded on. Disclaimer…I am a college counselor who edits resumes, cover letters, and admissions essays.
I was raised in an academic household. My parents never saw my papers, maybe not even my grades.
Because of being raised in that environment, that is what felt natural for me to do as my kids progressed. I don’t know their grades except for the one excited phone call that organic chemistry went better than anticipated. We just ask them, “Did you learn something? Did you try hard?”
This other family’s process is so different it made me wonder about the spectrum and here at CC there will lots of different view points.
I know my family baffles their family with choices we make regarding internships across the country, etc. It’s all good.
No, but in the days before computers, my mom typed all of my papers for me! She typed law student papers from home and thought nothing of typing up a few pages for me. She even typed up excuse notes for me when I was in elementary school - the teachers got a kick out of that.
Like I said previously, I thought nothing of asking my dad for help with engineering homework. He was an excellent teacher and could explain things much more clearly than most of my professors.
D2 didn’t make Law Review on class rank. Her school recently offered the chance for only one person in her cohort to make it via a writing submission. D gave me her almost final draft, with the express request that I look only for typos or glaring grammar mistakes. I was instructed to ignore the urge to critique content or writing style. I didn’t find any typos or grammar mistakes, and bit my tongue about a couple of other things I saw that I would have changed or worded differently. It was hard.
It’s a good thing I kept my mouth shut. She made Law Review with her submission. I don’t know why I thought for a moment that I would have any idea how papers of this type should be written since I have no legal education whatsoever. Whew, I dodged a bullet there.
