<p>Lerkin, try a different synagogue</p>
<p>The Sikh guy is not refusing to shake my wife’s hand, so I don’t care whether his tonsorial habits are superstitious nonsense or not. I reserve to myself the right to judge–for myself–which practices are more or less nonsensical than others. And I don’t know why you would suggest I don’t understand–I understand quite well why the person doesn’t want to shake my wife’s hand. I simply don’t think that his reasons are truly valid. As I said, though, I will defend his right to hold them and to practice them. But I’ll also defend my right to disagree, and to dislike.</p>
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<p>That’s an apocryphal story along the lines of the fabled cherry tree tale. Long debunked.</p>
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<p>exactly.</p>
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you’re welcome, but I don’t agree with the rest of your statement. it is the users’ responsibility to use the term correctly. most Muslims live their religious lives privately in peace. most people, for that matter, do the same. it’s not fair to place the burden of what fanatics do on them.</p>
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that’s because you don’t know that those people are so religious, because they don’t make a big show of it.</p>
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sort of a side question, but are you sure that’s why? some people are just opposed to contact with the opposite sex</p>
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<p>My experience is that there is quite enough to worry about in living morally yourself rather than to worry about the presumed morality of some other person. Someone who is trying to obey dietary laws or any other stricture is hardly doing it for your benefit. I doubt the Amish, or men with peyos or wearing forehead ashes are congratulating themselves at how the rest of the world must think them so stylish. Ok maybe some, but I doubt it hold in the majority of cases. </p>
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<p>ah ha! so you feel superior to him!</p>
<p>It just seems a slippery slope if you start worrying that everyone is doing their in group affinities to spite you. I am sure somewhere tonight someone will go to a noisy rave and not give a thought to me eating Asian ribs and watching Columbo on netflix streaming. And I wont give a thought to the raver dude. It wasnt about the other guy for either of us.</p>
<p>They did try to convince Washington to serve more terms, which he declined to do.</p>
<p>But not to become king.</p>
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<p>Or, perhaps more to the point you can NOT respect why they follow these practices even one tiny little bit, but since this is America, you respect their RIGHT to practice their religion.</p>
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And if I do, so what? And it’s not that the Amish or the Orthodox or anybody else is doing what they do for my benefit–they’re doing it because they believe themselves to part of an exclusive group that has the secret to the right way to live, as opposed to the outsiders. This is more or less true of everybody, I suppose, but I think it’s exacerbated in groups with more extreme views.</p>
<p>Which they are entitled to have, of course.</p>
<p>Let me just add: this kind of discussion is very familiar when tolerance of religious views and practices is discussed. In my opinion, at least, tolerance doesn’t mean thinking that others’ beliefs are true, reasonable, sensible, or anything like that. It simply means thinking that others have the right to believe as they wish and not to be penalized in public life for their views. But it doesn’t mean (for example) taking my kids to a faith healer instead of a doctor to show respect for the faith healer’s beliefs.</p>
<p>So your position is that anyone who promotes a visible group identify does it to be superior to the out of group?</p>
<p>poetgrl, I believe the simple rule is that, outside of some sort of true loving relationship, the powerful tend to oppress the weak (as “power tends to corrupt” in the words of Lord Acton), regardless of how power is determined, and it is not always obvious or clear who has the power or how much because very complex relationships can be involved. You may find it in your self interest to see it differently, but that is a rule that explains much in very many contexts.</p>
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No, and that’s not what I said. Not all visible groups refer to outsiders as “heathens” or other similar terms.</p>
<p>You think they’re superstitious, they find you to be a heathen. </p>
<p>I think it’s pretty fair. :D</p>
<p>@Alexissss. I would ask you to change your mind, but if you are a Muslim, there is no choice for you. Its Sharia law or fists, or rocks or prison or worse. Consider it cruel irony that you apparently enjoy freedom but apparently do not understand the importance of freedom. Look to the Muslim countries and examine the implosion of the culture. After youre done blaming the U.S, and Israel and resident ethnic minorities, try to understand that the problem is a fundamental lack of freedom. Without freedom a culture cannot innovate and tolerate and progress. Without freedom there is only hate and scarcity and blame. Go ahead blame away.</p>
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That’s fine with me. My point is just that I don’t feel constrained from judging their beliefs by my own standards.</p>
<p>Most of these things are not really a big deal. How often is my wife really going to be snubbed by an Orthodox Jew who won’t shake her hand? If it happens, it’s not that big a deal. But what if some group has beliefs that are pernicious to society? There are groups, for example, that include white supremacy as part of their religion. Surely nobody would think that we have to respect those views, even if we do have to tolerate them? I certainly don’t respect the beliefs and practices of the Westboro Baptist Church, and I have to swallow hard to tolerate them.</p>
<p>sosomenza, I believe that alexisss indicated that s/he is a Seventh Day Adventist.</p>
<p>To the OP: What did happen? Did the Pakistani roommate tell her parents to go pound sand, that they were bigots and that she was going to choose her own friends? </p>
<p>One would hope that a college education would provide some backbone to this Pakistani girl to reject cultural biases and think for herself.</p>
<p>Going back to the OP, just want to add, the we don’t know what any parents say to their kids in terms of limiting who they can have as roommates, hang around with, etc. Many colleges make it clear that room assignments freshman year are made without stipulation that a certain race, ethnic group, or other such conditions come into play, or these things are discretely handled. But once it’s up to the students to pick their next year’s roommate, there can be all kinds of discussions between the parent and child, and all kinds of bigotry and other thing may well be in the mix. </p>
<p>I always joked that the sitcom, “Three’s Company” 's premise of coed living was no news to me. Lots of males and females sharing apartments off campus where I went to school, and many were shares that did not involve any more of a relatonship than sharing the rent. But there were parents that went ballistic over such arrangements.</p>
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<p>And when is the last time you were actually called that? I dont see this as being a daily problem. </p>
<p>There are probably groups, like biker gangs or those people who have 140.6 triathlon ovals in their backwindow, who are doing visible group identity to set themselves apart from riff raff like you. </p>
<p>But for religious groups there are specific textual reason for them to obey they laws that they are. I would assume that is the reason for their actions instead of looking for an offense directed at yourself.</p>
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I’ve stated this before, and I’ll say it again. Islam does not advocate that kind of oppression, and Muslims are not for denying freedom to anyone.
Muslims can be open minded.</p>