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<p>Shawbridge, you may never know, but I bet that there were fellow students and perhaps GCs and teachers who thought that your approach would kill his chances at top schools. It’s so nice that you had the courage to go with what you thought would work best. So many people have this lockstep mentality, thinking that if you don’t do all the steps in the same order at the same time, there will be bad results.</p>
<p>I am chuckling at all the angst about B’s. D1’s school awards (the horror! the horror! 
) C’s. The kids still get into wonderful schools, and/or kick academic b*tt once they get wherever they’re going. </p>
<p>On a serious note, I’ve heard of some ugliness that goes on when students are pursuing A’s at all costs. One of D1’s fellow students was grounded all last summer because the student didn’t bring home straight A’s, having received a B from one especially demanding (and excellent) teacher who gives perhaps 1-2 A’s out of a class of 35+ :eek: Said student, to avoid the same fate this year, is now cheating. :(</p>
<p>About the fish/pond idea:</p>
<p>My D1 was a big fish here. It’s a VERY small pond - a decent sized HS but not a lot of competition. But she also did very well on standardized measures and was an All-State Scholar. She set her sights on top-25 schools and got in ED to one of them.</p>
<p>Temperamentally, she is very determined and disciplined. She has always been a pretty tough cookie. She liked being on top, but mostly because she felt the standards here were too low to do anything less. She had peers she respected, and wanted very much to be among people she could not only feel similar to, but also look up to.</p>
<p>Fast forward - she is a rising senior at her elite university, has made Dean’s List all but one semester, completed an excellent study abroad program this spring, and was selected to a competitive research internship this summer. But all she can talk about is how much she respects almost everyone she goes to school with, how incredibly brilliant/creative/well-read/thoughtful they are. She is proud to live and work among them. She is proud that she has managed to have a respectable record among them, but not with a competitive feeling. She’s just pleased that she can hold her own and be doing work she considers to be meaningful. </p>
<p>I think she always knew what the deal was in HS - the work was generally easy, and she tried to get all she could out of it. In college, she pretty much feels that the work has been generally hard, and she has tried to get all she could out of it. Getting a B in a class at a school where she sees quite capable people getting a C or even a D gives her way more satisfaction than getting an A in HS ever did.</p>
<p>This is just one story for one particular kid, but it’s a perspective, anyway.</p>
<p>We talked to S’s GC about the fish/pond thing yesterday. We/he still isn’t sure about whether he is better off at a lessor school where he is one of the brightest or at a school where he isn’t and is more challenged. The choice may not be his to make if he doesn’t get into any reaches.</p>
<p>We don’t know what to do about D2 ('11) in that way. Her stats aren’t as competitive, and she, like many kids, will have to see what the schools think. But I imagine she’ll have a choice at some point which will raise the fish/pond question. </p>
<p>She is less inclined to put people in a box, likes interesting, creative and thoughtful people but understands how someone might not get an A (horrors!) in a supposedly easy class. She “gets” distractability, nonconformity, or just plain being oppositional. She’ll have reaches, matches, safeties. At some point she’ll make a subjective decision based on the choices she ends up with. </p>
<p>But making the list is hard. We’ve found with her that visiting is absolutely essential. She looks closely at programs, but she can’t get a feeling for a school based on the students’ application stats. Just not that kind of person. Totally unquantitative. Luckily she’s been interested in the school search since 9th grade, and we’ve managed to be pretty much finished with her list. </p>
<p>One thing I’m counting on is that as an imaginative, contemplative and witty person, she should write quite a kickin’ essay.</p>
<p>EmmyBet, we’re in a similar place with ShawD. We’re visiting schools with her rather than looking at stats (though we have done that as well). But, the feel of the place is very important. </p>
<p>With regard to big fish/small pond, she was a medium sized fish in a very competitive pond: She attends a very competitive private HS and has really learned how to work hard – she had to in order to survive and her friends are all serious students (applying to Brown, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, etc.). I am hoping that with her work skills (and thinking/writing skills) combined with her new-found focus (courtesy of correct ADHD diagnosis and Ritalin) that she goes to a smaller pond and performs incredibly well. I’d prefer to see her at a match or safety than a reach so that she’ll when she turns on the steam, she’ll develop self-confidence that matches her abilities.</p>
<p>I get this too. S wants to apply ED to a highly competitive LAC. His last SAT scores give him a very reasonable chance of getting in, but we are not sure that is the best choice do to the majority of the student body at the school have REALLY high SATs and GPAs. Will he feel that he can’t keep up? Would he be better at a slightly lower rated school where he feels like a star? Both schools have good reputations. Also, second school offers merit scholarship where first school does not. Thoughts?</p>
<p>crewguy1 - my gut says if both options are a good fit, then follow the money and save it for grad school. (or your retirement)</p>
<p>I want my kids to feel challenged and engaged, but I also want them to feel confident and to have time for a little fun. In other words, I have no idea what to do. :p</p>
<p>It helps to do these college visits and then do some chatting about “can you see yourself here?” With D1 it wasn’t so hard, because I knew she was up to whatever challenge was presented to her - not that she’d be a superstar, but just that a general work ethic and some natural talent for learning and organization would pull her through. She also had an emotional pull toward top schools, wanted to see how she’d measure up.</p>
<p>D2 is very hard to predict - we’ve visited several schools that “call” to her, even though they are very different. She can usually say why once she’s gotten a chance to think about it. I deliberately say absolutely nothing until the day is over and she’s said the first comment. She’s interested in my opinions, but I consider them secondary.</p>
<p>So far she’s liked several big city schools, feels the energy there, likes the dedication to education and also the “fun” stuff she hears about (and I think it’s important that these guys think it will be a nice place to live, whatever their standards are for that). But in NYC on vacation, she couldn’t bring herself even to look at the buildings of schools there - she admitted that she just can’t see herself as THAT much of a city girl. She’s liked some smaller, more removed schools, too. Lots of little details pile up that make her lean for or against a school after a visit, even when she’s thoroughly read the websites.</p>
<p>Since her grades and scores have gone up significantly this year, I wondered if she should add a “reachier reach” she’d always been interested in. She may yet. But I do know she doesn’t want in-your-face academic intensity all the time. A very unscientific test I did was to visit the applicants’ pages on CC and see what they talked about. EEK! I turned and ran. The kids are fine, and entitled to be obsessing over the way high stats and mega-activities, but I did not see my D2 among them. </p>
<p>These kinds of explorations have let me to feel that she should only be looking where she will be among her B+/A-, slightly off-beat peers, or maybe a leader where she’s in the top 25% of applicants, at a school where she’s gotten the vibe she’s looking for (there have been many schools where she’d be that kind of applicant and definitely has NOT gotten that vibe). </p>
<p>If she throws another reach in after all, I’d strongly urge her to do an overnight (if she’s accepted). Or I’d figure she’s grown in some way that has made that kind of atmosphere work better for her. I’ve certainly seen some growth in that direction lately.</p>
<p>Morning all–
Up early (4:40am) to get our student to the airport on time…
Will miss our student – no apps work til late summer here.</p>
<p>Have you all seen this thread and read the article
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/940164-tufts-students-treated-alcohol-related-problems-have-meet-their-prez.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/940164-tufts-students-treated-alcohol-related-problems-have-meet-their-prez.html</a></p>
<p>Very impressive.</p>
<p>Fish/Pond question will be something we will have to work on more come August, as well as essays etc…</p>
<p>Another thing that’s happened this year is that one of her best friends is a 4.0 student, and my D has been her study partner in several classes. She’s gotten a vicarious look at that kind of experience, and she’s improved her grades enough that she can get a handle on feeling like “that kind of kid.” (Has anyone figured out that she’s pretty much a typical follow-your-older-sister-who-was-first-in-her-class-with-a-chip-on-your-shoulder type for the first couple of years of HS? Along with being an unconventional thinker with a quirky personality, too…)</p>
<p>Anyway, her new understanding of “top” kids - in her opinion - is that 1) on the side she doesn’t relate to, many of them worry way too much about scores and grades, which upsets either the people around them or, worse, their own self-esteem; and 2) they’re just people, and if you get over the “omigod sh/e’s SO smart” block, they can be fun and interesting (or maybe kind of boring and uncreative, the robot kind); basically that she neither rejects them nor is intimidated by them.</p>
<p>So I guess what she’ll decide how much of the 1st characteristic she can stand (and having gone to a top school, with D1 at a top school, I can say confidently that if the applicant pool are the types to obsess about 10 pts on the SAT, you’re going to hear a lot of that in college, too - not inherently bad, but worth knowing up front). And she’ll decide if the 2nd characteristic will be enough to get her past the 1st characteristic, if she reaches on the high side.</p>
<p>Being very focused on the arts, she mostly cares about her peer group in that. But she’s seeing more and more how much she prefers talent mixed with smarts, including book-smarts. </p>
<p>It helps that she’s a dreamer, and an analyzer (D1 is a “plow-aheader”). I know many kids don’t get to this much self-awareness in time not to panic over decisions because they have no idea what they want. I do think spending time on college campuses and with college students is so very, very helpful. Visit anywhere - if your list has too much distant travel, find local schools that are similar, and just go see how they feel. I do think schools come in “families,” and you can find their sisters and brothers near you that will give you some idea of what feels right.</p>
<p>And I think that if a kid continues to think any school (within their basic criteria) seems fine, that’s just probably how that kid is. Either they’ll truly be fine with wherever they go, or they may just have to live it to know. If they end up transferring, that’s just another valuable learning experience. The first piece of college advice my family was ever given was that transferring should always be OK as a backup plan.</p>
<p>And to make life really interesting, we are downsizing to free up some additional funds for college and moving in the next couple of weeks. Wisely I postponed much of the work until after the school year was over. I didn’t realize how crazy the last couple of months would be. I’m still exhausted from working the post prom Mon nite.</p>
<p>So glad that the Junior Year is over now! It seems in my D’s high school there are two groups. One is not that concerned about colleges, and for them the Junior year was paradise. The other group is very focused on colleges and for them the Junior years sounded like one long stressful trek. Not a lot in between.</p>
<p>The Big pond/small pond discussion re colleges in ongoing at our house as well. Many pros on both sides of the arguement. We probably will refine as we go on.</p>
<p>Onto the last college recon trip now: Thomas Aquinas, Cal Lutheran, and an interview at Scripps. My DW has told me no more trips until the acceptances come in (except for one we can day trip to). Will rolling admissions, that still means we may be able to do some in the late fall here.</p>
<p>Will give impressions of the schools when we go for those who are interested.</p>
<p>luck to us all in the bell lap here</p>
<p>My rising Sr took yesterday afternoon/evening off from studying for finals… to let loose at a concert last night with buddies. (Thank you blueiguana, for making me feel okay about allowing this). He slept at a friend’s house…and just came in. He needs to get geared up for his last final tomorrow, and then undertake some procedural logistics familiarization and timed tests for first go at the ACT on Saturday. He gets a half-day Saturday and all of Sunday off, before heading to his first of many football camps/prospect days. This little break was good for his soul… and his motivation to finally be done. This was a tough year, indeed.</p>
<p>The first day of summer break, and all is well. D had a sleepover here with some friends and is heading out to stage crew (can’t stay away, even on break…) followed by a graduation party for a copple of recent grads (can’t believe that will be her next year)and stage crew end-of-year pool party. S is chilling before starting summer school next week. Will be squeezing in little college research between p-t work and a couple of out-of-town activities. I made an initial list to get D started,using the small LAC with merit aid criteria (Grinnell, St. Olaf, Kenyon, Denison, Wooster, Lawrence) and encouraged her to broaden/shorten the list based on what she finds/hears. Will probably do an Ohio trip at the end of the summer (before HS starts and when colleges are back in session) and a couple of long weekends in early fall. A lot is going to depend on “feel” for the school and students, and visits really are needed for these types of schools (they look so much alike on paper). It’s great to get jr. year behind us (as well as a challenging freshman year for S). Looking forward to enjoying summer!</p>
<p>Very excited. D and I were discussing the common app essay last night. She was happy to learn that she could write on the topic of her choosing. We did a brainstorming session and came up with a topic that will reflect her wonderfully quirky character and will be fun to write!! Now I know she’ll get it done while away all smmer at her job! The creative writing course she took this semester has done wonders for her confidence with more creative forms of writing. ( she still struggles with writing assigned essays for English literature or history.)</p>
<p>holliesue, your daughter is my hero. 
Seriously, that is great she has already honed in on a topic and will have time this summer to work on it. I think most kids underestimate the amount of time it takes and the value of lots of drafts and editing. My oldest and I agree that one of the best parts of the app process was that he learned how to edit his writing. This whole process can really be a time of growth. It is wonderful when kids give themselves the gift of time for that instead of it being a last minute stressed-filled process.</p>
<p>We leave for our first visits in a little under two weeks. I’m hoping that D will love at least one of the schools and that will motivate her to write her essay. This has got to be something she owns, not me.</p>
<p>I am with missypie on this. Have talked to D about the fact that getting the essay done in summer is the best thing she could do. Have talked about planning the application process - stay ahead of the schedule, less stress etc etc. She does understand this - but I am waiting to see if she will actually do this during the summer. Right now, she doesn’t have a job for the summer - if it stays that way, I hope she can get a lot done. But she needs to own this process - I can keep track of deadlines etc, but she has to be pro-active about this. Here’s hoping…</p>
<p>Cooker - S just got a postcard in the mail today from “The Ohio Six” (Wooster, Denison, Kenyon, Oberlin, Ohio Wesleyan, and Wittenberg). They are promoting the Ohio Six College Tour for the ultimate college road trip this summer on August 4,5,and 6th. http:/<a href=“http://www.wooster.edu/OhioSix”>www.wooster.edu/OhioSix</a></p>
<p>We may visit two schools in OH this summer: Miami U and Xavier. Both match/safety schools for S that I am hoping will give him some merit money. Xavier is Jesuit, another plus because S is currently at a Jesuit HS, and they look after their own it seems.</p>
<p>I took a quick look at the common app last week and I thought the topics looked good, I think once we get the ACT behind us on Sat I will have S take a look at it. </p>
<p>Pick S up at school, he took his last final today. </p>
<p>S did something today I am not sure I am proud of or not. The school collects books at the end of the year to be used by kids next year who can’t afford to buy them. S ran into someone who had about 20 paperbacks (for English) they were donating, he bought them all for $5, sold 3 for $10 and donated the rest. The American way? I am not sure, but I told him that I would mail in all his used paperbacks to the school later this week.</p>