<p>^^ First, I agree with the practice of checking mid-year reports and rescinding admission for grades that drop significantly.</p>
<p>This is one more reason that public universities in VA are becoming more and more difficult for in state students. Arguably the top three (UVa, W&M, & VT), are hard to be touched without a 3.9+. VT is hardly your typical ‘state flagship’. </p>
<p>Schools like JMU are close on their heels with an average GPA of 3.8. Unless a student is receiving merit aid/financial aid, parents are no longer willing to send their students OOS or to private schools to the tune of $50k when many rely on federal government or contracting jobs for employment. The increased number of students staying in state naturally increases competition for top schools.</p>
<p>While we are very, very proud of our instate schools, many having great historical significance, the 3.0 student is finding it harder and harder to find a school that fits. We all encourage our students to strive to do their best, however not all students are destined to be a 3.5+. A 3.0 should hardly be considered a ‘poor’ GPA, however in VA choices are severely limited. </p>
<p>I’m sure there are other states where this is also true, this just caught my eye.</p>
<p>I imagine this is particularly true in states where the flagship is top-ranked nationally (VA, MI, CA, WI, TX, etc). In WI, we’re finding the next 2-3 down in selectivity (La Crosse, Eau Claire, Stevens Point) are getting harder to get into, as a result. Luckily for students here there are many other instate options. I don’t know what it’s like for OOS students.</p>
<p>It is even true in non top ranked states like MA. I was amazed at all the kids from my S’s well regarded high school who did not get into the state flagship and some of the lower ranked state schools. Kids who clearly were above average stat wise. Could be these schools know some of these high ranking kids will not attend if they get admitted to other schools they can afford and are therefore being denied. So getting into public schools is not a slam dunk anymore.</p>
<p>We’re finding for us that the public/private question is much more intense this time around - D1 really hoped not to go to Madison, but would have gone as a safety if necessary. D2 ('11) not only doesn’t want to go there, but unlike D1 also would have a harder time getting in (not a 4.0/30s ACT kid). Also, the flagship doesn’t have the programs she wants. </p>
<p>So being a slightly lower-stat kid, she’s looking more closely at the second-level state schools, because she likes them better and because a couple of them have excellent programs in her field. We’ve definitely gone from a family that only was looking at state schools as backups to one that has several state schools, including OOS, as significant contenders. A lot of this happens when you get program-specific. D1 didn’t have this issue.</p>
<p>I don’t know if we would say we prefer state schools now, or even that we hope D2 goes to one because of cost (of course we’d enjoy that benefit, but we want her to go to the best fit for her) but I do feel we see their value this time in many new ways. Also, the second-level state schools are often a really nice size - 6-10K - which is very difficult to find in private schools.</p>
<p>Well, good news on our front. I mentioned to a client as we were starting up a conference call that I was taking a college tour week with ShawD and listed the schools. He emailed me to tell me that one of the schools, high on ShawD’s pre-visit list (and top of mine), was his alma mater and that it was an absolutely fabulous place. He offered to call the school and set up a more personalized tour including meeting with professors in her department and with the President, who apparently likes to meet with strong candidates. I told ShawD about this and she thought it was a great idea. I thought it would make her nervous but she was eager to do it. (We’ll have to prep her on questions he is likely to ask and questions she might ask him).</p>
<p>My D has visited 11 schools and is only going to apply to her top 2. But every time someone asks about this and I talk about her favorites, people always tell me more schools - Has she considered Washington & Lee? What about Alabama? etc. Why would we want to add more schools? I think we’re in a great place.</p>
<p>mamom, I did a quick Naviance check and UMass Amherst accepted 8 out of 10 applicants from ShawD’s private high school but none went. So, maybe after a while they start nixing the kids per your thought. ShawSon got in (to honors college, with money) and didn’t go but a number of kids from his public high school did.</p>
<p>shawbridge, I just looked at the naviance data again. For the class of 2010, 109 applied, only 65 acccepted, 16 enrolled. </p>
<p>For the class of 2009 UMASS Amherst web site states there were 29,452 applicants for a class of 4,124. About 20K students were admitted for an acceptace rate of about 68% or so. Which is in line with S’s school acceptance rate. </p>
<p>I have to say I was surprised that more were not accepted. If I see anyone from the guidance dept I will have to ask about it.</p>
<p>How wonderful Shawbridge!! Whoot-whoot!! I’m sure ShawD will have an awesome time and all that is needed is an introduction. I think that is wonderful that the President of the university takes that much of an active interest in potential students.</p>
<p>dignified1- You get access through your school guidance department. The information is the historical data of students from your school regarding admissions. I believe most, but not all, schools participate.</p>
<p>blueiguana, with a little coaching, ShawD will probably do well. The fact that she saw this as an opportunity and not a scary thing is, to me, the biggest predictor of success. I’m going to suggest that she take her Ritalin that day so she’s focused. </p>
<p>I suspect that the President takes an active interest in prospective students, especially those introduced by influential alumni, but who knows.</p>
<p>After talking with my dd from her summer program, it looks like I have to retool the whole college search. WHile she loved doing the academic portion of the program, she is much less thrilled with the other students. This is the second bad experience with potential classmates she had in the last month. In June, she went to a college visit and sat at a table with other potential students at lunch. At one point, I looked over and saw that she looked unhappy. Then later, I found out why. The four girls she was sitting near were all recounting tales of vandalism and being stopped by police. And I don’t mean tping but things like tagging cars with spray paint and other serious vandalism like that.
At this college program, which is a summer program for upcoming juniors and seniors, she is also getting bad vibes from the majority of students. Issues like “I can’t believe you are actually interested in this” after a very interesting two hour lecture according to my d. Issues like girls dancing in front of windows in a very provocative manner to guys who aren’t even in their program but who knows who they are and they are taking cell phone pictures. Fortunately, she has found at least two kids in the program that she likes and I have told her that the summer program is unlike college because she wouldn’t be stuck at stupid dance parties and could escape to the library. (SHe isn’t anti-dancing at all and has no problems with regular dancing but dancing like a pole dancer in front of strangers who are taking photos is not her idea of fun).</p>
<p>Anyway, she has decided that she really needs to find a school where students are dedicated to working. She likes to have fun too and do things like sports, but for her, school must come first. Now how do I do that? Her grades, recommendations, awards, ECs, and essays will be great. It is her test scores that are the problem. She does have ADHD and the long, boring tests are not the best way to assess her. So she ends up scoring in the top 90% but she needs to score higher, I think, to find schools that are the right environments for her.</p>
<p>One of the things my D notices *a lot *is the other students we see AND the other students on the college tours. It seems she wants them to be somewhat like her, but not exactly like her. I think it’s a very sophisticated internal process. It may seem silly to an adult, but if all the schools visited are “worthy” why not let a child decide where she feels she fits?</p>
<p>MilitaryMom, from the sounds of it, your daughter is correct. You’ve got to find places where the kids are serious about their work without being too serious (e.g., “Chicago: The place where fun comes to die”). ShawD is also ADHD, but has been greatly helped in her performance by Ritalin and extra time. She explicitly does not want to go to one of the top 20 schools. Given that she probably wants to study biology (which every school will have to greater or lesser degree), her choice will be based in part on the feeling she gets from the kids at various schools. That will involve lack of pressure and seriousness. I think she’d be back home in a heartbeat if her classmates thought pole dancing in front of men they don’t know was a preferred activity – and she is a dancer.</p>
<p>We’re all affected by our environment in ways that are subtle as well as obvious and we should help the kids choose an environment that will support them in both their education and their personal growth. As a male, I’m not sure I’d have had much of a sense of that, but ShawSon decided an hour into his visit to Wesleyan that it wasn’t the school for him despite the fact that the kids were interesting and reasonably smart.</p>
<p>I’ll put in a plug for UChicago - I felt very much the same way about my peers in HS as your D does, and I found it was absolute heaven. I was plenty interested in having fun, but I really loved being somewhere that academics came first for everyone. I would strongly suggest that she look at it.</p>
<p>Let us know anything that she has found appealing, and we’ll be happy to make suggestions. I do believe strongly that you shouldn’t fear that she can’t get into “top” schools. First, she probably has a better shot than you think (watch out for the “CC scare”!). Second, many top schools have lots of kids who aren’t that interested in academics - they’re there for lots of reasons: sports, legacy, prestige, etc. Third, many schools that don’t just look at stats are looking more for the kinds of values and interests your D has. </p>
<p>Have you read Loren Pope’s books (Colleges That Change Lives, Looking beyond the Ivy League)? I took my D2 - not probably as intellectual as your D, but unconventional in her own way - to a CTCL Fair last fall, and she was very invigorated and inspired by the choices they offered, that “college” doesn’t just mean one thing, or even “top college.” Thirty years ago, finding out I didn’t like the “typical” top kid school was the best thing that ever happened to me. There are lots and lots of choices, and I’m sure she’ll find what’s best for her. And I didn’t shift gears until Dec of my senior year, so she has way more time than I did!</p>
<p>Was reading through the last few posts etc
and rambling thoughts here…</p>
<p>Our student has noted how “different” certain groups of students are–and has noted how badly behaved some kids are–bad manners, bad behavior, bad language, …
alot of risky behavior and arrogance…
and while some of it may be the competitiveness of the student-athletes also trying for attention at top schools etc…both academically and athletically–some of it is just plain lack of grounded self respect, kwim?</p>
<p>We are happy our student recognizes it as such–and will back off–and not participate when there is inappropriate behavior
— however it can be lonely…and I have wondered about where the right fit will be…</p>
<p>Hard to know —and we want this decision to be our student’s - not ours.</p>
<p>Too often I hear the parent say all of the things they want–
and when I ask–
“what does your student want…?? because you aren’t going… ha ha”
the parent doesn’t know…</p>
<p>and I wonder if
either the parent is too interested in directing the search,
or if the kid hasn’t really engaged in the search,
is the student self aware?
etc</p>
<p>kwim?</p>
<p>AP scores in…
3 of which our kiddo and we are happy with
and one is a shocker… kinda wondering wt@#$</p>
I’m sure ShawD will have an awesome time and all that is needed is an introduction. I think that is wonderful that the President of the university takes that much of an active interest in potential students.</p>