<p>Wow, MOSB, that was a terrific post. You have amazing executive functioning skills! Loved the way you organized the whole event.</p>
<p>Hi -</p>
<p>I have also posted in another thread about the “senior meltdown.” I just can’t believe how stressful this process is for the student as well as their families. My D has all 8 apps in and is now in wait mode. She has to send in her portfolio within the next week or so but then she will be completely done. She too applied to schools a notch down however her major is one of the most selective with limited seats. Even though she should be a slam dunk for the overall school, she may not get into her chosen program so the anxiety and self-doubt is very high. As the parent I just keep saying it will all work out and I try to boost her but deep down I am not so sure it will work out the way she hopes (I don’t express that to her).</p>
<p>mosb - great wisdom again. Thank you.</p>
<p>I will apply that method once my D finally HAS a free evening … which means my first task will be insisting on that. This weekend is already pretty much shot with ACT and catching up after that (and a little celebrating). But we’ll get there in the next week or so, just have to.</p>
<p>I got a reply from the school that seemed perhaps to have a second essay - my gut was right, that it was an alternative way to approach the essay if the student chooses. So there’s one more school on the list that will be finished when the CA essay is finished. Yay!</p>
<p>mosb, what a great post. I have to be out for part of tomorrow night, but my husband can probably be home, so we can tag-team the ultra-supportiveness.</p>
<p>Sometimes it helps when she’s buried if we take a short TV break to watch The Office or Modern Family, then she gets back in the zone. The bigger issue will be texting-- her group of friends has all decided to stay home and work on apps/essays tomorrow night, but they could easily text the night away talking about it instead of actually doing it. So I will suggest phone and Facebook off.</p>
<p>She had a major meltdown last week, the only one she’s ever had, because of the pileup of deadlines (she’d gotten behind in a couple of classes because of the senior retreat), and I came home from work right away, helped her calm down, helped her prioritize, and just sat and worked nearby all night. Gave up theatre tickets, too. She just needed someone nearby while she slogged through a huge amount of work. And she did it all, caught up, calmed down… so I did not regret giving up the theatre tickets!</p>
<p>Great advice on the timeline. She needs that.</p>
<p>mosb - can I come to your house and work on the profile? I’d like to bring fogfog to help me if that is okay with both of you. </p>
<p>Just when we think we are in the home stretch something pops us: a non-common app school that needs recs in an envelope with a signature on the seal sent snail mail, a FAFSA or profile for MERIT aid, an e-mail saying that part of the application (coming from HS) is missing, scholarship forms, and (here it comes) the interview requests.</p>
<p>Fortunately, D is making steady progress, has stayed mostly healthy, and has only had one stress meltdown. I don’t want to wish away any of this last year, but I do kinda’ wish it was mid November (when, hopefully all the stuff D needs to do will be done!).</p>
<p>D has a bit of an attitude. We have promised her 4 years (room board and tuition) at the “right school.” She seems to have a list of only expensive schools. I hope we won’t have the safety that she is only in mild like with at $50,000 a year versus a free ride at wonderful state flagship dilemma. We shall cross that bridge (or not) in April, I guess.</p>
<p>Thank goodness for a great counselor and this forum! I am enjoying a glass of chardonnay while you all indulge in a martini…</p>
<p>This should be a simple question.
S has his first app almost ready-well the snail mail part-and he has one LOR which he intends to copy and put with his paper forms which he will bring to the GC counselor who will then add her part and mail it in the manila envelope which we supply with postage. Is is OK to submit a copy of the LOR-I think each packet should have an original signed on the school letterhead but he says no-a copy is fine. The other LOR was submitted electronically by the teacher and is already listed on his common app.</p>
<p>Tonight is the swearing in of the NHS and if his GC is there I intend to ask her.</p>
<p>I find this mishmash pretty interesting. I can’t wait until the transition to paperless in complete.</p>
<p>One school got scratched off the list today when I finally got an answer re: merit aid. No OOS scholarship money for NMF -state residents are eligible to compete for a full ride. Too bad-but it’s gotta go. It wasn’t a top choice of his anyway so it’s no big deal-but it would have been nice to have that as another option.</p>
<p>I have been keeping up with the goings on here-to all who are in a good place I hope it continues-to all who aren’t well tomorrow’s another day! :)</p>
<p>S1 applied to 4 schools last year and one of the criteria was that they didn’t require essays…Now I have S2 dragging his feet and acting insulted if an editing suggestion is made. I think I preferred last years approach.</p>
<p>Here is how we are handling the money matters. (We will not qualify for aid and are only “rich” in the eyes of the financial aid gurus.) H and I dug deep within ourselves and have agreed that if S2 gets into reachy, reachy MIT or Princeton that we will find a way to fund it. (36 ACT, but weak on EC’s and no hooks) He will apply to Wash U, but can only attend if he is awarded a healthy merit scholarship. The University of Minnesota Honors program is S2’s back up plan and he would be very happy there. He also applied to U of Alabama as a financial backup in case my H falls in a hole. I really wish we could justify him applying to Northwestern or any other 1000 great schools, but being full pay… Part of me feels like we are denying him opportunities, but a) we simply cannot justify the financial sacrifice and b) like most kids, he will do well regardless of where he attends.</p>
<p>I’m not addressing this to Kajon or anyone in particular, and don’t mean it personally. But I do think there is a very complicated, and probably unanswerable, question that comes up in these situations - why is MIT or Princeton OK to pay full, but not Wash U or Northwestern? I happen to disagree. I think we’re perpetuating a myth that a top 10 school is more “worth it” than any of the top, say, 100 schools, or even 30 schools, which do provide just as many incredible opportunities in jobs, grad school, etc. </p>
<p>Just what is it that we are saying is worth paying for at “big names,” but not “pretty big names,” or even the “right” name for our kids? My D1 is at a “not quite top 10” school that probably would be classified like Wash U or Northwestern, and I don’t see that she’s having any less valuable experience than an MIT or Princeton - for her personal development, and her future - and we’ve been willing to make it work financially (we are full pay, too) for that reason. </p>
<p>I don’t know where we would have drawn the line financially - earlier I said that I wouldn’t have paid top price if she weren’t completely enthusiastic with the right fit, but it wasn’t about name. There was a question of what was right for her, what made it “worth it” personally. I do think there are variables in quality, even while I also feel any kid can do well anywhere. I can’t say anything conclusive here, but I guess I feel sad if a kid might “deserve” the sacrifice of a top 10, but not anything “below” that.</p>
<p>If we’re talking about what the “top” schools give you, then I personally feel that “top” schools include a lot more schools than many people seem to believe. D2’s “top” schools aren’t anywhere near MIT or Princeton in prestige, or even Northwestern or my D1’s school. We’re talking Boston University, Bard College, and some others. But they’ll also carry full freight tuition, and maybe they’ll be right for her. I don’t know exactly how we’ll decide between them and some less expensive schools, but I know we’ll think hard about what they can offer her that might make the financial cost “worth it” specifically for her.</p>
<p>I imagine this will be a touchy thing to bring up here, but I really wanted to say what I felt.</p>
<p>EmmyBet - No offense taken and we certainly don’t mean to say that MIT or Princeton are more important / better than any other school it is just how it worked out for our son. You are asking a valid and thought provoking question. I look forward to the responses, but right now I have to go toss in a frozen pizza and make myself a drink.</p>
<p>We also are not expecting financial aid. What we’ve told our kids is that we will pay for X amount. After that we will co-sign loans and they will have to pay them off. Our older kids chose their schools due in large part to the cost. They were very fortunate to get good merit aid. Names and rankings are not important to us and each child has had their own priorities about what they wanted.</p>
<p>Many kids and their families start building their list with the dream schools. And it could be MIT and Princeton or Wash U and Northwestern or Boston U and Bard or Olin and RPI. Those would be the schools where the kid would be the happiest and where parents would be willing to make some sacrifices. But you would have to stop at some point, because even though there are dozens other schools that others would think are peers, it doesnt make sense to the family (if it is not ridiculously rich) to pay a full price, because its not a dream. </p>
<p>Then you would add some public schools and some private schools w/ good merit aid that are also a good fit, but where you are hopping to pay less than 50+ K. </p>
<p>At least thats how we built our Ss list. And before putting any school on the list, I told S to imagine that its the only school that accepts him. If he thought he would not be happy there the school would not make the list. Now, that was my rule, but I have to admit that it was a lot easier for me to reject a full pay college, then a college where we had a chance for a full ride.</p>
<p>Thanks, Kajon - have a nice dinner! And maybe our kids will end up at Minn together, who knows? I wish your S all the best.</p>
<p>klp - very well put, and very wise. </p>
<p>I figure, if we can’t talk about these things here, where can we? Everyone is going to make different decisions, for all kinds of personal reasons. </p>
<p>My H and I are completely overwhelmed by - and don’t think about - the idea that our college bills next year could be below $10K or over $50K. How does anyone make that kind of choice and decide on that kind of value? Somehow we will know, and live with our choice, whatever it is. And while I’m dreading all of these months of waiting, I also know that we probably need it, to know what is right for our D, as she grows and changes every day. </p>
<p>I saw with the last child how absolutely huge senior year is, in so many ways I never expected. And it’s happened again, perhaps even more than before. It’s hard, but it’s a huge privilege to share it with her.</p>
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<p>Emmybet, I found both of these quotes from your posts today very meaningful. </p>
<p>Whether we pay $5 or $6K a year or ten times that amount, most of us are making huge sacrifices to educate our kids as best we can, and anything less than 100% commitment, enthusiasm, and motivation on their part doesn’t justify that sacrifice. For some of us (including me) part of the investment has been 4 years of private HS tuition, which I expected to “pay off” in helping my D achieve better odds for merit scholarships. That was a substantial investment over the past 4 years. </p>
<p>Regarding your second point, I couldn’t agree more. I recommend the book, “Harvard Shmarvard” for those interested in exploring what you really get for the big bucks/big names, as opposed to what you may think you’ll get. The flip side is that there are many gems of schools that are THE perfect fit for many high achieving students…fewer people may have heard of them, true, but they often offer terrific opportunities and (dare I say it?) learning/living experiences that in some ways can be superior to the Ivies at a fraction of the cost.</p>
<p>I don’t presume to answer this question for others, but I think a key question is what do you think you’re paying for, and what evidence do you have that you’ll receive it?</p>
<p>I really appreciate knowing that others are carefully weighing their options just like we are, even though in the end our choices and perceived and real “value” may differ.</p>
<p>FIMathMom, what a shocker that weight gain can be! I imagine with your physical mobility challenges it’s difficult to address. The nutritionist sounds like a great idea. He/she may be able to find “hidden” ways to cut the calories, even though it sounds like you’re already eating very healthfully.</p>
<p>Question: even though your trainer mostly addresses mobility issues, do you think he/she might be able to recommend some higher calorie-burning exercises for you that wouldn’t be painful or damaging to you physically?</p>
<p>Final question, in the extremely unlikely event that you did end up on Greatest Losers, would you give a shout-out to your friends on this thread??? I don’t watch TV, but even I would tune in for that. You’d have an amazing cc fan base! :)</p>
<p>Ok, JK, but I do wish you well with the weight loss. You’ve re-inspired me to stop complaining so much and to continue looking for even little ways to increase activity and chip away at the number on the scale.</p>
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Oh, yes! So much so that at times, members of my extended family must resist the urge to apply duct tape to my mouth and remove all list-making/scheduling materials from my reach. :)</p>
<p>Emmybet
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<p>Emmybet, your question is complicated. Let me venture my answer here (which is drawn from something I posted once before). </p>
<p>There are a lot of good schools. One can get a good to excellent education at many (hundreds or maybe over a 1000). A few have recognition well beyond the US borders and people outside of academia take notice. Alumni networks are very strong. My sense is that a very limited number of schools make available opportunities with much higher probability than others. They also tend to cause the already ambitious students to set their sights higher (I call this horizon-raising).</p>
<p>My perception is that HYP do these things well and are recognized around the world by people outside of academia. I think Stanford, MIT and Caltech for engineering and science (and maybe Stanford for social sciences as well) would fall in the same category. [I’m not saying that these three are not superb in other fields, but am thinking about the alumni networks and recognition outside of academia].</p>
<p>Having attended and/or taught at three of these, I’ve benefited from the positive effects. I think that at each step, the probability of good things happening is better, especially if you want to do something out of the normal linear progression. I’ve shifted what I do a couple of times and I am confident that my affiliations have increased the ease with which I’ve been able to shift at high levels.</p>
<p>For example, I decided to take a year off after my first year of grad school and was looking for a job in a field that was different from my own but related to it and interviewed with one firm, and one of the two principals were grilling me about what I knew and what skills I had until one turned to the other and said, “He’s Princeton magna, Jerry” and Jerry then turned and said, “OK, so why do you want to work here?” Similarly, I switched fields after getting my PhD from Harvard and I am confident that the location made the switch easier. I later left academia and joined an investment bank and then a private equity firm. Both moves came directly as a result of contacts made as a professor at Harvard. Having Harvard emblazoned on my current firm’s resume and being an expert in what we do means that the red carpet is rolled out at times when we go to places like Australia, Malaysia, Peru, Japan, China.</p>
<p>There are schools that have this effect in limited fields or areas. Chicago’s reputation and alumni network is really strong in economics in South America. RISD for art and CMU for computer science might be field-specific equivalents. The next general tier would include Columbia, Dartmouth, Penn, Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Amherst and Williams (and others should probably be in it but these are the no-brainers). The latter three seem to have terrific alumni networks, but none of this next tier have the recognition that I see at HYP. Prestige is in the eyes of the beholder and alumni networks are what they are.</p>
<p>And, none of these special benefits – horizon-raising, contacts, alumni networks, improving the lottery of available opportunities – will help at all if the individual isn’t proactive and aggressive in taking advantage of the great opportunities he/she has available.</p>
<p>And, just to be clear, I am not saying that one will necessarily get a better education at one of the top 15 or so schools. [IIRC, I think your D1 is at a school that I think does an absolutely terrific job of teaching and inspiring students.] At the top 15 schools, you may or may not get a better education (although you are likely to learn a lot from your classmates). But, I do think on the categories described above, the top 3-5 and top 15 are relatively better the other schools. Whether one’s child would benefit from these things is unclear. And whether it is worth a $50K tuition relative to a lower tuition elsewhere is a judgment that each family would have to make based upon a) perception of value; and b) ability to pay. I do think the differences are there and are worth paying for, but not for all kids and not for all schools. I thought a number of the top 15 would be bad choices for my son. I think all of them would be bad choices for my daughter.</p>
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Come on over. I think I’ve dodged a bullet with Profile, but still need to organize biz stuff for FAFSA, and have to do another one (CCS? CSS?) for one of D’s schools.</p>
<p>Bring fogfog. I will prepare our detailed work schedule and libations!</p>
<p>Interesting discussion.</p>
<p>We would also consider full pay for an Ivy League education-not because it is better, but because from what we have researched the difference in tuition over his earnings career will be more than enough to cover the difference.</p>
<p>[Ivy</a> Leaguers’ Big Edge: Starting Pay - WSJ.com](<a href=“Ivy Leaguers' Big Edge: Starting Pay - WSJ”>Ivy Leaguers' Big Edge: Starting Pay - WSJ)</p>
<p>It is probably a moot point since my S isn’t “Johnny Inc” and won’t get into an Ivy anyway! Has anyone been reading the thread about tutoring?</p>
<p>I figure the difference between his Number 1 school and his dream school (Ivy but not HYP) will end up around $80,000. He will get merit aid at number 1 school if he gets the NMF status and that will make the difference. His dream school would offer about 10K a year in aid-which they classify as loans so I consider that full pay.</p>
<p>So to us it comes down to “Is it worth it”? Our answer is yes, it is. If you asked us would he get a better education at an Ivy that is something I cannot tell you because that depends on what his experience will end up being there. I cannot imagine it would be worse-assume it is the same as his Number 1 school. I am sure he’ll do fine wherever he goes-but we do feel if was accepted to his dream school we could justify the additional money. </p>
<p>It still is so much about name and who you know. He stands a better chance of making he kinds of connections that will help him at an Ivy-that’s just the way it is. </p>
<p>I think a lot of the college decision is very personal and there is no right or wrong answer.
Every family has different beliefs, goals, finances, and so many other issues that go into this decision. I respect other peoples opinions and choices without necessarily agreeing with them being the right choices for us.</p>
<p>Good Morning Dear Friends…</p>
<p>A couple of thoughts…</p>
<p>What the heck is gong on with our teens??
Our teen is a bit mumbly/grumbly–and I can ask seven ways to Sunday whats up and get nothing…
I do see the fatigue from academics and sport…
I think maybe it’s being between the out of the nest—in the nest stage.
Sort of like the toddler who gleefully runs off to play and keeps coming back to home base/ aka mom/dad on the park bench or at a playdates home just to check in and be sure the security/familiar is still there…</p>
<p>On finances…My parents made it clear they’d carry whatever it was to send me to school–and they were thankful I chose a state U that was really inexpensive at the time. I came into this with our student of the same mind–and my DH felt that we needed to take a closer look. For example, the point was - why pay OOS for a state school ? What was different, ? Programs, sports opportunitites etc. DH and I wanted our student to be able to defend the choice of schools on The List…it has helped everyone “buy in” </p>
<p>As things have turned out–our student will likely attend an expensive private…a world renowned/well known “Brand”. There is aid and it will work it out. Our student had asked me what will happen if the admit letter came, “would there be the chance of not attending due to finances…” Four years is a long time and we will be sure to have our student apply for the in-state tuition benefit in case something happens. Part of what we are hoping, is illustrated in an above post–the connections and opportunties.
Already a friend has said that when their alum student is in town for the holidays, they want to get together to introduce our student to their student–AND will be connecting our student with current students in the university community. </p>
<p>Sending our student to this school will mean significant changes, etc…
We will make those personal decisions as a family, and what works for us, may not be what another family chooses to do. </p>
<p>I think buying a brand name in a school is no different than how each of us decides what is worth the money in buying a brand vs generic in other things…</p>
<p>Did you all check out that college measures site. It gives the avg of loan carried, avg starting income etc. While it doesn’t break it out by major–its interesting info–Even includes things like what the university is spending on the physical plant of the school etc…to educate the student…</p>
<p>Good morning, everyone.</p>
<p>I really appreciate the opportunity to share a hard, personal question (with undeniable societal and ethical implications) with such a thoughtful, respectful group of people. I am proud to be part of this year’s senior class of CC parents!</p>
<p>We all will find the answers we need for ourselves and our kids. I’m intrigued and honored to hear of everyone’s personal journey through this particular issue. I hope having a place to put down some thoughts about it is helpful to both the posters and the readers. I know it helps me both ways.</p>
<p>I think there’s a shot-in-the-dark aspect to these financial choices: for everyone who is positive only the highest-ranked school, no matter the cost, is the most important goal, there’s someone who’s “seen the light” and smugly brags that they would never send their kid anywhere but instate. </p>
<p>There are days when my D1 at an expensive elite public says “I hate my school!”, but I don’t get bent that she means we’re wasting our money; it’s usually just a fleeting feeling about some bureaucratic quagmire. There are days when D2 just doesn’t seem mature enough to be handed a $200K present, when an off-brand would probably serve her just as well, but I know we haven’t made that final decision yet, and in the long run I have faith that we’d send her very proudly to a school on either end of the spectrum.</p>
<p>I know people who end up resenting the “big” money for privates, every time their kid is grouchy or seems ungrateful - I know my kids are very grateful, deep down and on the surface. I won’t begrudge their moments of crabbiness in the meantime, if the balance is there. I would pull a kid from any school if they are wasting my money; I’d like to think that won’t happen, but as we all know, it can.</p>
<p>Sometimes I liken paying for college to paying for travel. If you’re going to travel, you just have to spend the bucks. Maybe you’ll get lucky and do it on the cheap, or maybe you’ll choose to go somewhere that isn’t so pricey. But going certain places is going to cost a huge, maybe foolish-feeling amount of money - enough to pay your utilities for a year, enough to buy a new car. Is it worth it? Does it change your life? That is absolutely a personal decision that isn’t based on any kind of logical mathematical equation. </p>
<p>I don’t claim to understand how to decide any of it, but I respect everyone who has taken the time to think about what matters to them personally, and doesn’t just follow some kind of external pressure. We all know how easy it is to fall prey to that.</p>