<p>I think the AP tests give a college an idea how well prepared a student is regardless of the caliber of the HS. The AP test does the same thing as the SAT2 in that regard, although some students may test higher on one or the other. I agree as well about the SAT1 tests. Those are more of an IQ test rather than a knowlegde of a subject area. I don’t think the SAT2 tests really add value to the selection process.</p>
<p>With respect to the SAT2s, my daughter is planning to take two of them, APUSH and Biology, in May next year. It is my understanding that the AP Exams for both of these take place either the week before or after the May SAT2 testing and it seems to make sense to get them all done at the same time, assuming that studying for the AP tests will also prepare her for the SAT2 tests. If she does not do well enough on these two she may retake them or the Math 2 or Literature SAT2 tests in June. Does anyone see any problem with this plan?</p>
<p>CMC: D has similar plan --2 SATIIs in both May and June --keeps her options open as far as score choice . She picked Math II, Chem, Lit, and Latin. We believe that studying for APs and Finals will help her with SATIIs. She says she doesn’t want to be distracted by the SAT I or the ACT at the end of the year. She will take SAT I twice -January & March --and live with the scores. I am happy she finally has a plan!</p>
<p>Some research has shown that the SAT subject tests are better indicators of future college success than the SAT. The best known of these studies (done at U of California) was influential enough to push the College Board to make significant changes to the SAT in 2005 to incorporate more achievement-type content, including writing.</p>
<p>SATIIs seem more fair --not all schools offer AP classes or many of them or track kids early such that some are allowed to take them and some not.</p>
<p>I have heard that the content on the SAT II is similar to the AP tests. I am concerned about the test material not being covered by the honors classes for things like physics. Does anyone have experience with how much extra work woudl be required for non-AP classes?</p>
<p>D has completed the Chem and Math II SAT subject test after she finished the courses (Chem I and precalc). She’s taking AP Chem and AP Calc BC (and 3 or 4 other AP exams) in spring, plus the Literature SAT subject exam so she can show that she’s well-rounded. Then she’ll be done testing with the exception of perhaps ACT for scholarship purposes, and the 2 AP Physics exams. The goal is to finish all testing in Junior year to take some pressure off in Senior year.</p>
<p>The content of the AP courses and test are really very different from the Subject exams. I’ve heard it argued that it’s best to take Math II after precalc and before calculus for best results (i.e., not in the year the student takes the AP Calculus exam).</p>
<p>After talking to DS today about an upcoming college trip, he says that he really only wants to apply to Wabash and be done with it. He hasn’t even visited that many schools, so I just want to wring his little neck (though part of me would love to just be done early). Why does it always seem like boys want to tackle college like shopping? Get in, find the first thing that fits and be done with it. I appreciate that he loves the school, but he hasn’t even seen the other schools that I think he would like as much or more.</p>
<p>Mizzbee - my girl isn’t interested much in college visits…(hasn’t done any so far!). Teens have so much else going on in high school to think that far ahead. I plan on combining visits with vacations to keep it fun for all. And knowing my D she won’t be willing to visit more than a few carefully selected campuses. </p>
<p>I have heard from many parents now who are more eager to visit colleges than their kids!</p>
<p>Well, Wabash is very generous with merit aid… I was sorry they didn’t have a computer science program. I would have encouraged my 2011 son to consider it.
Congrats to IJD’s daughter. That sounds like an amazing PSAT score.
RE. Subject tests, I had 2012 daughter take three after sophomore year because I didn’t think she’d continue to study those subjects (Chem, World History and French). She didn’t do nearly as well on WH as she did on the AP exam and the test curve is brutal. You can have what seems like a respectable score when you compare numbers to the SAT I but those numbers are equivalent to much lower percentages. We had assumed that just taking the class was enough preparation. Uh no! I would definitely have a kid seriously study a prep book. My daughter’s classes did not prepare her well for the SAT IIs.
She’s got two more finals to go and then 31/2 weeks off. It’s been a challenging first semester at her new residential school but I think she’s learned a lot about time management and the importance of going to your teacher’s office hours. With a little luck, she might even end up with As in most of her classes…</p>
<p>Apollo6- you’ll be so happy to have her home! And all she’ll do is sleep 
Good luck to her. Most high school kids have Jan. finals. Dec. finals feel so brutal, but the time off (and really off) for vacation is worth it!</p>
<p>AP tests are completely different from SAT subject tests. I would advise students to study from both AP and SAT subject test prep books.</p>
<p>^^ I think it may depend on the individual HS’s curriculum. You read all the time on CC how studying for an AP exam was enough prep for the corresponding SAT2, but our experience was as levirm describes. Unfortunately D1 didn’t start looking at the SAT2 prep material until very close to the test date and only then realized that her AP class had not covered a significant amount of the material.</p>
<p>I find this totally ridiculous: outside studying so you can pass a test on material that wasn’t part of the advanced HS cirriculum. These kids are in HS. They should go to prom, have EC’s and study hard for their difficult classes. They should enjoy being in HS. It frustrates me that they are now suppose to sit down with two $30 prep books and figure out what they don’t know for one test or another and then study that so they can get perfect scores on both tests. Oh, and do this for 3 APs/SAT2s in their Jr year. My kids are awesome and smart, but they aren’t superman. </p>
<p>My DS took AP World History. He did better on the SAT2 than on the AP. I find it silly that a college now can look at his grade, his AP and his SAT2 for one class. Three data points for one class and this is somehow going to tell them whether he should go to their school? I just want my kid to do well in his classes and by doing so, do well on whatever national test he is suppose to take to show that his school taught the class at an advanced level. Obviously, we are not looking at HPY, however, if it takes that kind of obsessive dedication to studying to a test, then, maybe we aren’t top 20 material either. What kind of adults are we producing to lead our country into the future when to “win” you have do this kind of compulsive detective work on your HS cirriculum. </p>
<p>Ok, rant over. Please continue on…</p>
<p>^Geogirl1, I am feeling you. </p>
<p>On a concrete level, don’t wait until the last few weeks to get the prep books for History type tests; there is a tremendous amount of material covered, and it is (imo) better to do a bit all along…FWIW</p>
<p>^^^^Beautifully stated, Geogirl1. Will our kids look back on HS grateful that they obsessed over those three data points or will they regret worthwhile HS experiences they missed? Of course the answer depends on individual goals and balance, but this has been the challenge all along hasn’t it? Drill and kill in preschool or guided play experiences? “Teaching Your Toddler to Read” or “Everything I Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten”?</p>
<p>Whew, geo! We don’t have to play that game. Even for HYPS, I think. If we do, life is good with or without HYPS. We play along up to a point but we all get to call enough is enough when we choose to. My D’s HS doesn’t teach to the test, good or bad. Kids can’t take either AP or SAT2’s without extensive preparation. We’ll do without AP’s if they don’t administer and for SAT2 we need only two.</p>
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On a concrete level, don’t wait until the last few weeks to get the prep books for History type tests; there is a tremendous amount of material covered, and it is (imo) better to do a bit all along…FWIW
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<p>I agree with anothermom2. My daughter chooses her test prep books (for all subjects, not just history) before the school year starts and then uses them all through the year. They often help with class assignments and tests, as well as providing what is needed for the tests.</p>
<p>Wow, good to know re: SAT II’s-- and I am so in agreement with Iglooo and geomom. I see D working so hard, with true interest in her subjects and real effort toward doing well, loving her EC’s and throwing herself into them wholeheartedly. She refuses to track her volunteer hours because “the point is I’m volunteering because I want to.” Any college will be lucky to have her. And then I think of the huge #s of wonderful kids out there, all of whom deserve great educations…why do we put them on this testing hamster wheel? I hate it.</p>
<p>geogirl - I think it’s good to remember that not all schools require subject tests, and that you don’t have to ace the test to be admitted. My older son (freshman in college now) applied to many schools that required two of them, but he didn’t study for them. He took US History even though he got a 2 on the AP test, and scored in the mid 600’s, and he took Math II because he was good at math - he didn’t study for it but got a high -700’s score. So - he took them both, no studying, not a lot of pressure, and submitted his one-great, one-OK scores. </p>
<p>He had the same it-doesn’t-have-to-be-perfect approach to grades and SAT’s, and he still had great results in admissions. I view the subject tests as one more way for colleges to see through the haze of thousands of different high schools’ approaches to giving A’s, B’s, or C’s. And as one more way for college board to make money ;). And let’s face it - not all kids have the opportunity for AP classes at their high school, and maybe the subject tests give them a chance to show a certain level of knowledge on a subject in another way.</p>
<p>I’m convinced that there are a BUNCH of colleges who want to see that a kid can do well in school (i.e. ‘good enough’ grades & test scores) and then they look at soft factors (what do teachers say about him, what does he do outside of the classroom…) to find reasons to admit a student. On either end you have state schools that are mostly driven by grades and SAT I’s (but they don’t have to be great), as well as schools that are pretty easy to get into, and then uber selective schools that have the same approach, but the ‘good enough’ grades and scores are defined a little differently, and the soft factors need to be more impressive.</p>
<p>So I agree with you wholeheartedly that it is too easy to get sucked into the game too much and go crazy thinking you (or your kid) have to have perfect grades and close to perfect scores on all kinds of tests. I guess as parents, one thing we can contribute to the college admissions process for our kids is to nudge the ones who haven’t yet figured out that any of it matters, and “talk down” the ones who are getting too stressed out about it.</p>
<p>Honestly - my older son had “good enough” grades & scores to show he could do school, but not stellar (at least by CC standards), and he had admissions to some pretty selective schools and a couple with great scholarship money. </p>
<p>In the meantime, my son has his Physics final today. They give the same final to all students in the course, no matter which teacher they have. S’s class hasn’t even covered two of the chapters yet (he has the teacher who is reputed to be easy but doesn’t prepare students well for the AP test). I hope he did some self studying.</p>