<p>Here, too, done with junior year. t00curious, you win the prize. I wish we could be so oblivious to the end of the school year.</p>
<p>Lol, JenPam, that drives me nuts, too! My daughter’s school doesn’t weight at all. Sometimes what track you’re in doesn’t even appear on the transcript. I’ve been assured a million times – because I needed to be – that admissions committees are looking at the entire high school record in context, and if they’re aware of your school, everything is fine.</p>
<p>Still causes me stress though.</p>
<p>JenPam, Angry Dad- we’re in a similar boat-- they do weight, but rank is based on unweighted GPA. And I’m trying to imagine how many of the colleges D is applying to will ‘know’ our school? Our rural school which sends 4/5 of kids to schools in-state? </p>
<p>There is SO much to stress about-- I guess I will understand it all better on the other side of the process. (I won’t need to understand it anymore…but that’s life I suppose!)</p>
<p>I see the downside of a gpa weight system that forces, however slightly, students to not take regular but more interesting courses.</p>
<p>I was not pleased when our high school dropped ranking and weighted GPA a few years back. Well, I’ve since changed my opinion on this. The curriculum rigor and the grades received in the context of the school profile should speak for themselves. </p>
<p>Fair GPA weighting is difficult to achieve - should AP Economics be given the same weight as AP Physics C? Not ranking the students encourages our students to leave their comfort zone and try new things to challenge themselves. Top students should NOT be conditioned to make course selection decisions based on perceived consequence on class ranking and weighted GPA. If “Johnny must learn to work within a team and collaborate with others” was the response to our anger caused by Mrs. Team-Project’s arbitrary pairing of our Johnny with his academically challenged classmate on a crucial class project, why should the school continue to perpetuate head-to-head competition?</p>
<p>Every high school has literature that states what classes are offered, if they rank and/or weight classes, etc. Our school even says that French classes are more difficult than Spanish classes based on the current teachers. Every college requires this information from the high schools, so no worries Angry Dad and Gwen Fairfax, colleges have the necessary information to review your child’s work.</p>
<p>I feel very mixed about AP and Honors ranking. I wonder if my son would have made different choices had our school not weighted classes so much. Our district gives out 3 GPA’s on the transcript and report card. An unweighted cumulative GPA, a weighted cumulative GPA and an academic core GPA. The weighted cumulative one is based on a 6 pt scale with AP classes worth 2 extra points and honors worth 1. The academic core is only academic classes and is most likely what colleges who look at weighted GPA’s look at since it weights the AP classes 1 point extra and the honors .5 points extra (much like the state universities in Florida recalculate them. When I talk about my son’s GPA with his GC (or someone who needs to know it) I only relate the Academic core (the Florida colleges look at this alone) and the unweighted cumulative (since that is what the OOS private colleges look at). </p>
<p>The weighted cumulative one is a joke IMHO. I have no clue though as to which GPA our school uses for class rank, though I believe that it is one of the weighted ones (since the top 10 kids in the grade always take 2 extra online AP or dual enrollment classes each year and two more during the summer!). These kids are so uber competitive with each other. </p>
<p>Although this is my DS “crowd”, he does not play that game and is more than fine with his top 2-4% status. He would probably not care if he was ranked lower either. He takes what classes he takes because of his interests or, in the case of AP English, because his friends will be in the class. He did ask me once if I thought he should take more AP classes (online) and I asked him why he would want to. The answer was that the top 10 in the class get to sit on the stage at graduation. He opted to sit with the rest of the 750ish kids in the class of 2012.</p>
<p>The Secondary School Report section of the Common App asks: (a) class rank, (b) class size, (c) covering a period from <date> to <date>, (d) the rank is weighted/unweighted, (e) how many students share this rank?, (f) how do you report class rank quartile/quintile/decile?, (g) cumulative GPA <x> on a <y> scale covering a period from <date> to <date>, (h) this GPA is weighted/unweighted, (i) the school’s passing mark is, (j) highest GPA in class, (k) graduation date, (l) percentage of graduating class immediately attending four-year/two-year institutions, (m) how many courses does your school offer AP/IB/Honors, (n) if school policy limits the number a student may take please list the maximum allowed AP/IB/Honors, (o) is the applicant an IB diploma candidate, (p) are classes taken on a block schedule, and (q) in comparison with other college preparatory students at your school, the applicant’s course selection is most demanding/very demanding/demanding/average/below average. So Common App schools have a pretty good picture of a kid’s record in comparison with his/her classmates. Non-Common App schools, on the other hand, vary in what information is requested.</date></date></y></x></date></date></p>
<p>Our school has three non-special needs levels: academic, pre-AP, and AP. Pre-AP is weighted at one level; AP at a higher level. Weights are used for class rank and are reported on the transcript. S has lost weight for choosing French over Spanish (AP French not available, two pre-AP designations lost during teacher change) and staying in band all four years (two years opportunity cost of taking non-weighted vs. a possibly weighted classes). I don’t think valedictorian or salutatorian was ever a consideration, but he’s trying to stay in the top 10 and was doing OK at last ranking release.</p>
<p>On the tour at Michigan State, we were told that Admissions takes the transcript and calculates their own GPA. If a state land grant institution does it that way, I suspect many others do as well.</p>
<p>D’s school has no weighting and no ranking. They also have no courses labelled AP or Honors. They say that all courses are at a college level. But the kids have a notion of what’s a harder class and what’s an easier class – what’s slacking and what’s murderous. It has very little to do with how the college application appears. So colleges that know the school well understand the transcript, and those that don’t are likely to under-estimate the amount of work these kids are doing.</p>
<p>My D2012 is shut out of rank-based top honors because she chose to take Orchestra each year instead of additional extra-point classes. </p>
<p>Our HS has started the process of petitioning to get their upper (audition-only) music groups UC-approved as extra point classes – because too many kids are dropping out of music due to GPA concerns. But, unless they make it retroactive, it’ll happen too late to affect my D’s GPA. </p>
<p>Since UC admission is partly GPA-based, that just might knock my otherwise-all-honors/AP kid out of the flagship(s). :(</p>
<p>^^That’s a bummer. My kid’s HS doesn’t calculate GPAs, no rank or weight. They do have different levels in math and sciences, 5 levels in math, 2 or 3 in sciences. In foreign language, they start advanced tracks in junior year in foreign language Lit. I am happy with what they do. It tones down competitions among kids producing a congenial student body.</p>
<p>@post #5428 - Thank you for the thorough description. I wondered how colleges would know if counselors don’t advocate aggressively.</p>
<p>I think it’s too bad that playing the GPA game forces kids out of music. I’ve heard of that in other schools too, mihcal. Our high school does give weight for the top performance groups, I guess that’s why - I thought it was kind of weird but it makes sense now.</p>
<p>Michal – I’m surprised that the school profile doesn’t help some there.</p>
<p>Iglooo – I know that the school profile is really important for D’s school. They list <em>all</em> of the courses offered (and whether they are “core” or “elective”) and the grade distribution for common Junior year classes, in addition to the usual stuff.</p>
<p>Our school profile was very bare when I looked at it. It basically had the information from the Common App, and it didn’t do a great job of expaining our weighting (which doesn’t differentiate between Honors and APs). It didn’t even list the honors classes, so I wish the adcoms luck in figuring out the sense of the GPA. It also wasn’t clear on the UW being on a 4.3 scale, since anything over a 98 is an A+, which many kids get. </p>
<p>michal1, I didn’t realize how Orchestra would affect the UC GPA. For some reason, I thought it wouldn’t play a huge factor. That makes me very sad for your D, and makes me appreciate even more how much kids sacrifice to be in orchestra.</p>
<p>Regarding GPAs and classes that pull down the GPA such as music. I can tell you two stories that maybe will reassure mihcal1 and some posters. My daughter attended a program that required her to take a performing arts class each semester – it was a magnet program. Those classes pulled down her GPA. She had 8 AP courses in high school, she had straight As, but she was ranked thirteenth, which, of course, is still quite respectable out of about 500 kids or so. She was admitted to more elite schools (Princeton, Yale, Stanford – and Berkeley/UCLA, with a Regents scholarship at UCLA) than anyone in her class – and some of the “top” students did not get into their first-choice schools. Four years later, I saw that same thing repeated with a girl in my son’s year. She also took a music course each semester and it lowered her ranking. She also got into elite schools that students ranked above her did not get into. Why is this? I think it’s because the girls demonstrated that they could be academically strong AND follow a time-consuming passion. I’m sure there was more to it – good essays, etc. but, the main point is, it did not hurt them to take classes that lowered their GPA, since one look at their transcript showed that they were academically able and strong. My current child could have taken five APs nest year, but is choosing to take two electives that will play to his passions/strengths and take him out of the running of being number one or two, most probably. But there is more to life, and to college admissions, than ranking and GPA.</p>
<p>great post, mimk6!</p>
<p>Keep in mind that the UC system only weights 8 semesters…no matter how many honors/AP/IB classes the student actually takes. And the UC may or may not weight the same classes the high school weights. You can look up the classes which the UC weights at your high school online:
<a href=“A-G Policy Resource Guide”>A-G Policy Resource Guide;
<p>Thank you mimk6! It’s good to read reassuring anecdotes.</p>
<p>The UCs have gotta be familiar with our HS, since they see many dozens of applicants each year. They will re-calculate her GPA according to their guidelines. Our HS doesn’t rank, for all the reasons other people have detailed. But I don’t know is how the lack of weighing –> ranking may affect her ELC status. The HS recently sent us a letter to sign permission to release her data for ELC eligibility, so it looks like she’s OK. Still, it would be nice for the HS to get official approval for weighting the music classes.</p>
<p>Agreed that there is more to life than GPA and rank. Orchestra has been a wonderful experience for my D.</p>
<p>Home from visiting Miami, Earlham and Ohio state. If she can get accepted I think I might have a future Ohio State Buckeye. She loves it. OSU has so many majors and they are strong in international studies/foreign language and linguistics. Plus they have so many majors to choose from and a plethora of foreign languages to study!</p>
<p>Yes, there are a lot of students, 3rd largest university in the country AND they are increasing another 6,000 students for next year, but a lot of opportunity. I try not to give my opinion during college tours so she can really make up her own mind. She thinks Ohio State felt right, comfortable yet exciting. She also likes Columbus and it is not so faraway that she can’t come home if she needs to but is so different from our rural area. Plus, she has grown up a crazy Buckeye fan…O-H-I-O, and was already talking about joining the student cheering section at football games!</p>
<p>It was nice there weren’t just Ohio kids visiting osu. We had people from Dallas, Chicago, New York state and even Michigan! She really likes that it attracts people from all over the place.</p>
<p>She did like Miami and I think it is a close 2nd with Kenyon still being her reachy school. Miami has the quintessential college campus/town. It also has a lot to offer in terms of academics and is ranked very well in many areas. The dorms seemed very nice and there are no more than 3 stories to each resident hall, which I like. It also felt safe whereas Ohio State is in a big city so that is a little worrisome for me…though not for her. </p>
<p>Earlham was nice but I think it just felt too far from home. And Yes, she did comment on the flat land and how it made her feel “exposed.” It is funny how things like landscape can really influence your choices. I never thought that would be such an issue but it really is. </p>
<p>So, I think The Ohio State University is #1 on the college list for now.</p>
<p>Soon we will be visiting Hiram, Ohio University, Ohio Wesleyan and Heidelberg.</p>
<p>Our HS doesn’t include any outside classes in computing GPA or ranking. (They don’t rank, except for top 10 and top 10% honors at graduation.) </p>
<p>Also, they really discourage kids from loading up on outside classes. They did, however, allow my D to take Health, Econ, and US Govt outside (online) in order to free up space for in-house Orchestra and Latin classes. Taking APUSGovt online last summer didn’t give her any GPA boost. Still, she is glad she did it, because (1) it was interesting; (2) it helped her work up to the level of writing expected for this year’s APUSH class; (3) she likes being able to bamboozle folks with references to obscure supreme court cases.</p>