<p>Maxwell, I believe that if you go to the admissions page of any particular school, they will tell you if they require any subject tests. I don’t think any of the schools require any particular subject test, (MIT may be an exception), but I think conventional wisdom is that at least one math and one in another subject (science if she might be a STEM kid, or a humanities one if not) should be fine. I believe JHU and maybe Georgetown like to see 3 tests, but I can’t swear to it. </p>
<p>I’m totally jealous of those whose kids are taking their driving tests soon. D has a late birthday and is just turning 15 later this month. I can not wait for her to get her license.</p>
<p>The Common Data Set will also tell you if subject tests are required/recommended. However, you will still need to go to the college website to know how many and which ones. Be aware too, that different schools/colleges in the same university may have different requirements. To get the common data set, I have found searching for “XXX university common data set” works well.</p>
<p>Suzy100: S turns 15 end of this month but our state gives learner’s permits at 15 and provisional licenses at 15 1/2 if they have had Driver’s Ed and a required number of hours. Driving alone at 15 1/2 scares me a little, but we personally limited the driving pretty strictly to local trips, back and forth to school, etc. for quite awhile for our D’13. That worked well for her and I think our S will be one to abide by our rules also.</p>
<p>They will be sharing the use of one vehicle, though, so I foresee some battles in the next year. :)</p>
<p>My kids share a car. No fights because one kid is the driver on odd days and one is on even days. If its not your day, you have to work it out if you need/want the car. Haven’t had many problems.</p>
<p>D’12 takes her last AP exam tomorrow and D’15 takes her first – different girls, different exams. Hopefully similar scores (rounding up?) Mother’s Day is definitely being downplayed here this year, though DH is working hard to make it special. D’12 stayed at school (residential, but she usually comes home weekends) to study for the AP exam and sleep off prom (which was Friday). My first Mother’s Day as a mother without her! I guess that’s a milestone.</p>
<p>The year is definitely drawing to an end with a bang, or perhaps it’ll be more like a whimper. 2 weeks left for D’12, 3 weeks for D’15. D’15 has an internship for the summer, though they aren’t allowed to pay her because of her age. D’12 is trying to line up some tutoring, but so far is having little success. I guess she gets to mow the lawn this summer.</p>
<p>Both girls will have learners permits this summer, so I see lots of white knuckles in my future. D’15 will also take an econ course, and perhaps health through distance learning to get rid of some requirements. She can’t get rid of PE this way, all the more’s the pity. This is, of course, assuming she decides to stay at her current high school. She has some decisions to make by the end of the month.</p>
<p>Exciting times!</p>
<p>Walker, thanks for the suggestion. I think we’ll try that!</p>
<p>I don’t understand the big push to study for SAT so early! </p>
<p>There is absolutely no reason to take the SAT in fall of Sophomore year. Maybe in spring of Sophomore year, but even that is pushing it. It’s really better to wait. Most kids do better on the SAT with a little more maturity.</p>
<p>Here is a recommended timeline. </p>
<p>Freshman year:
- no testing, except possibly SAT subject test(s) if you’ve taken classes that align well (typically H.Bio)</p>
<p>Sophomore year:
- Oct: take PSAT w/no studying, to get a baseline
- May or June: take a couple of SAT subject tests, if you’ve finished subject(s) that align well with the what the tests cover (typically H.Chem, World History, USHistory). Take Sat-MathII in spring of the year you finish pre-calculus.</p>
<p>Summer before Junior year:
- if you did really well on sophomore year PSAT (say within ~15 points of your state’s commended score cutoff), then study for “real” PSAT to be taken in October of Junior year.<br>
- if you did fairly well on sophomore year PSAT you might study for the SAT and take it the first week October (before the PSAT)
(Note: the PSAT and SAT tests are different – they use different test methodologies and cover different material. It’s best to study for each one separately.)
- if you did less well on sophomore year PSAT, look over the ACT to see if that test might suit you better. If you think you’re more of an ACT person, then maybe study to take that in the fall.</p>
<p>Junior Year:
- if you think you can score well enough for National Merit, take the PSAT in October. Otherwise don’t bother – the PSAT isn’t used for anything else whatsoever!
- if you think the SAT is your forte, and you studied over the summer, take the SAT in October. Or else study over Winter Break and take it in January, or else use that free month after APs to study and take it in June.
- if the SAT isn’t your forte, then study for and take the ACT in October or January or June
- if you didn’t already do subject tests in Sophomore year, take them this spring (either in May with APs, or else in June). Choose SAT subjects that align well with your HS classes.</p>
<p>Summer after Junior Year:
- finalize your list of colleges & programs you’ll apply to and check all their testing requirements. Compare your SAT and/or ACT score(s) with the inter-quartile ranges of your intended colleges.
- hopefully you’re done with testing and are starting your college applications.
- if you’re not done with testing, study over the summer so you can finish testing in Oct</p>
<p>Senior Year:
- take tests in Oct, if necessary. Most colleges will accept Nov or Dec tests, too, but hopefully you’ve already finished.
- write your applications!!!</p>
<p>Thanks all. </p>
<p>mihcal, the only reason we thought about SAT subject is because she’ll be done with precalc and AP chem next spring, so we thought it might be a good time to take the subject test if she is ever going to take it. does it make sense?</p>
<p>So we will have to know which college she’ll like to apply before choosing subject tests? What if we have no idea? :p</p>
<p>maxwell,D15 is giving her SAT chem in june as her school doesn’t has AP chem.As far as i know kids usually give 3 subjects like math II,science and humanities or lanuage or CR writing.Mostly depends on the college and the childs interest.</p>
<pre><code> Some kids tend to give more than 3 too.SAT subjects is not a requirement for UC colleges.
</code></pre>
<p>mihcal-I agree with you.But it depends on the child too.If one is capable it is better to finish it early and concentrate on other things as AP classes take most of the time in juinor and senior year, IMO.</p>
<p>As far as subject tests go, the vast majority of schools don’t require them. Many “selective” schools either require them or recommend them (and if a school “recommends” it, I think it’s best to do it!). I only know of one (Georgetown) that requires three. Most don’t define what test to take. Some want a math subject test as well as one other, and a small minority define more clearly what tests a student should take (I think Harvey Mudd is one). </p>
<p>I agree with your approach to have a student take the subject test immediately after completing the highest level course they’ll be taking in that subject. Most schools let you pick and choose which scores to send in, while some (very selective) schools require that you send all scores from every test you’ve taken in. </p>
<p>So it’s not necessary to know ahead of time what schools your student will be applying to. I would plan on taking two subject tests minimum, and that way you’re pretty set to apply anywhere you want. I agree with mihcal that it’s nice to have all testing done by the end of junior year (but not necessary).</p>
<p>Do you think there is any penalty to having “old” test scores? My sophomore scored a 34 on the ACT with writing last September. He is considering not ever taking it again but he probably won’t enter college until fall '16 since he is doing a gap year in China next year. He thinks the 36 he scored on science was something of a fluke so he is reluctant to take it again thinking that his score would be lower. He’ll study for the PSAT but probably won’t take the SAT unless he is a potential NMF.</p>
<p>Apollo - some schools do super score the ACT, so it’s possible if he took it again, he could keep the 36 in science and get a little higher in other areas. I’m not sure how reporting ACT scores work - can you choose to just send in the score from one date but not another? If so, no harm in sitting the test again if he wants to. </p>
<p>That being said, a 34 is excellent, so I’d put it in the category of not worrying about it much either way. If he wants to retake it, fine, if not, fine. :)</p>
<p>I looked into the issue of old scores last year. Any score in HS is fair game. However, if the scores could be better, it’s to the student’s benefit to take the tests again.</p>
<p>I’m going to disagree with Michal as to timing. It really depends on the kid and when that kid is ready. For some of these kids, there’s nothing to be gained by waiting. They already have the vocabulary and know the math, without studying. If the skills are there, why wait? Those skills can only get stale. There is less pressure to take exams early, because most kids are NOT ready until Junior year. Also, it can serve as a reality check for a lot of kids.</p>
<p>What I don’t advocate is sitting down and studying for the SAT (reasoning) exam other than becoming familiar with the format and learning how to write the essays. Early testing can prevent wasting lots of time with useless (and boring) study, and avoid lots of anxiety. We found that by the end of Junior year, the kids were feeding off of each others anxiety over testing, so that even when they were being supportive of each other, they were hurting each other.</p>
<p>I’ve been wondering about the timing of tests vis-a-vis what my D will be covering in school. I need to look up what Math is covered on the various tests. She will be taking pre-AP Calc next year, and if that’s as far as the SAT covers, then for her I think that I’ll suggest she take the SAT in October of her junior year. Then again, I don’t want that to interfere for prep for the PSAT, which I assume (but again, I don’t know so I have to look into it) does not cover pre-calc.</p>
<p>OK, I just looked quickly and it appears that the highest level math on the SAT is Algebra II. Am I reading that correctly? Seems like the farther one gets away from these subjects (in terms of time), the harder it might be. Hmmmm.</p>
<p>suzy100 - I think what you read is correct (SAT goes through algebra II). But kids don’t lose their algebra skills during Pre Calc - I don’t think there’s a hurry to take the SAT right after Alegbra II. And while it does say officially that it covers math only through Alg II, I think having Pre Calc will be an advantage. I think your plan to have her take the SAT October of junior year is a good one. She may want to brush up on geometry. (Tip from my son - he says any geometry question on the SAT is a “similar triangles” problem. He says he’s not joking, although clearly there are exceptions.)</p>
<p>There are lots of good approaches to test timing. For what it’s worth, here’s what my senior did (my oldest, just finishing sophomore year of college, did a similar approach, but not quite as on the ball - we learned from S1 when it was S2’s turn!)</p>
<p>freshman year
SAT subject test in biology. His score was mediocre and he did better on different tests later, but after S1 had to scramble to get in a couple subject tests done in time for early applications, I was determined to start getting them in the bag as S2 took classes.
SAT subject test in Math I. Good score (he had finished Alg II), but not as good as he got on Math II a year later, so value of taking it is questionable. </p>
<p>sophomore year
HS gave all sophomores the PSAT. </p>
<p>junior year
Oct - SAT
Oct - PSAT
Jan or Feb - ACT
Mar - SAT
May - subject test in Math & Physics
May - AP’s </p>
<p>senior year
May - AP’s </p>
<p>It’s nice to have all the testing done by the end of junior year because then you know scores while shopping for colleges, but it’s not necessary.</p>
<p>Checking in
.</p>
<p>Thanks for the timeline on testing schedule. I registered S1 for his first SATs at end of his junior year after he told me that classmates were taking SATs in the early spring. He did the Duke SAT in 7th grade. I think if I had known more about the testing schedule he would have done more subject tests and perhaps better SAT/ACT scores. Oh well. It probably would not make much difference because he was not that interested in going OOS for school and he is very happy at UT-Austin. It is affordable for us. So it all works out.</p>
<p>Thank you for the info, PN - it’s very helpful. I think my D’s schedule will look a lot like what you laid out here.</p>
<p>I debated about having my D take the Bio SAT test at the end of this year, but her teacher suggested she wait until she has Bio 2. Unfortunately, I doubt she will ever have room for Bio 2 but I didn’t realize that at the time. Oh well, I think she’ll have enough tests covered. She’ll probably do Math II at the end of next year, as well as US Gov’t (or whatever they call it) because she has APUSH next year. If she wants/needs to take another, she can do that at the end of Junior year and then be done with them!</p>
<p>Great testing schedule discussion here! Always interesting to hear different perspectives on that topic.</p>
<p>Have a specific testing question re: SAT II Bio: DS15 is currently taking H Bio & has solid A in the class, for what that’s worth. However, I doubt he will ever take AP Bio because he’s just not into it.</p>
<p>I <em>assumed</em> that H Bio would not be enough for the SAT II Bio after reading some other threads. Is this the conventional wisdom? Or, if AP Bio is highly unlikely as a future course, should H Bio students consider taking it now?</p>
<p>And, if a student takes the SAT II Bio and bombs, is that a score that must be reported to schools requiring all scores? I doubt DS15 would have serious heartburn about taking an SAT II, but he would not have much time (if any) to prep and I just don’t know if he’d be well-prepared.</p>
<p>Insight much-appreciated! Thanks.</p>
<p>GoAskDad - </p>
<p>My son took SAT II Bio after freshman year Bio (not even honors Bio). He got a 670 (he didn’t prep at all, just walked in and took it). It’s a respectable score, just not as good as what he got on later tests. And by the way, as it turned out, if he’d gotten just 10 points more (a 680), he would have gotten credit for an intro Bio course at our state flagship university. </p>
<p>If he hadn’t had better subject test scores, we would have submitted it and not batted an eye. As it turned out, he had better scores on other tests taken later (he took Physics after AP Phys B), so we didn’t submit the Bio subject test score. </p>
<p>If your S takes it and bombs it, most schools will never require that you submit the score. Some colleges (Ivies and the like) require that all test scores ever taken are submitted. </p>
<p>One more thing to know about the Bio subject test: a student takes the Bio E (environmental) or M (molecular). He picks one at the test center. so depending on the emphasis at your S’s school, he’ll choose one of those. Our school concentrates on molecular.</p>
<p>@PinotNoir, do you think if your son took AP bio, he could’ve done better in SATII? a lot better? I guess my general question is, is AP harder than SAT II or the way around?</p>