<p>I am not sure how they are weighted.I will talk to the counselor and find out.D15 has two A+s and four A’s with a 4.0 gpa in the first semester and still she was ranked second. I guess the A+'s count in the school.</p>
<p>@maxwell,no .one would do take the same AP’s as her.The other one will take chemistry instead of AP Bio,so that will not pose a problem to D15.</p>
<p>@Gibson,that the excat same thing D15’s counselor told us.Taking extra classes would bring her gpa down.D will be be talking a total of 10 AP’s if everthing went as planned.She wants to do journalism for next two years which means sacriice a class in junior year.In soph ,she is taking PE over summer which makes room for journalism.</p>
<p>If it works out for your child to be valedictorian, great, but I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Think about how many high schools and valedictorians there are in the U.S. Being valedictorian or national merit scholar is very good but if you are hoping for your child to attend a highly competitive school it is better to focus on a talent to develop or a way to stand out from these thousands of students. JMHO</p>
<p>I agree with Apollo.</p>
<p>Yet I have to admit being Val is very attractive. It’s so interesting to read about what advice students get in order to become one. I’d have never thought that 4.0 in middle school algebra may hurt that chance. Gibson and tripleamom, your kids must be in very good schools with peers to compete with. (in a good healthy way.) </p>
<p>At what time of the year (I suppose it’s in senior year) does the student know if s/he is Val? Is it before the college application time, so she can list it in her application? Just curious. Does it really make a big difference?</p>
<p>That’s a good point handhMom - the seniors at my D’s school don’t find out until February, which is well past the app deadline for most colleges.</p>
<p>Most kids know unofficially after xmas. Our school system bases Val/ Sal after 1 st semester senior year. Officially I think we got the call in April. D was top freshman, sophmore, and no 2 Junior year( her AP classes were 2nd semester and we are on block). The girl that was Sal was D’s good friend. I don’t think there was anyone else really in the running.</p>
<p>Does it make a difference? Who knows. Kids that are Val/ Sal usually have pretty good credentials … as do most kids in the top 5% of their graduating class.</p>
<p>Think about it … if the difference between Val & Sal & the next couple of ranks is just a A+ versus an A, or a class taken as AP versus honors, then it is a very small difference indeed! Probably less than a few hundredths of a GPA point.</p>
<p>Any college that is worth attending isn’t going to place huge weight on such small differences. If there’s a cluster of kids that all apply with similar classes and grades, then the colleges will look at other factors (test scores, plus qualitative factors like work experience, ECs, leadership, “passion”, and “fit”) in deciding who to admit.</p>
<p>Tip-top class rank just isn’t worth getting all worked up about. :p</p>
<p>I agree, mihcal 1! :D</p>
<p>@hisandhermom,the school D15 goes to is ok.There are more competitive schools around here where kids have to work really hard to get good grades .</p>
<p>@mihcal1,you are right.There isn’t going to be a big difference between val and sal.There is nothing wrong in trying wihtout going crazy :)</p>
<p>Just lurking in this group as I don’t have a 2015 child but I do have a 2014 and 2016…</p>
<p>It has been a struggle for me as the parent to not push my 2016er to do what is necessary to maximize a shot at the top of the class based on what we learned from our 2014 child. Our school offers an extra hour of classes before the school day starts. Lots of kids use this hour to fit in their PE or health credit yet it hurts their GPA even if they get an A in the class. Our 2016 child wants to remain in the orchestra which until I learned about playing the GPA game, I would have been thrilled about. Now I am just “meh” about it because I know if that class were to be dropped and substituted with something that is weighted, she’d have an edge. The GPA thing is a total numbers game that some people choose to play and do so meticulously before their child even starts high school. I’m conflicted about if it is worth it. The kids at the top of my 2014 child’s class do school 18/7(if they are lucky to get six hours of sleep each night) yet their extra curriculars are pretty minimal. I think it must be fabulous for a child to be able to put something like a rank of 1/600 on a college application but it isn’t right for every child.</p>
<p>What a pity for a child to feel they must forgo orchestra or art or journalism to chase a last few hundreths of a grade point in hope of making top class rank. :(</p>
<p>Along those ^^ lines, my D had her last orchestra concert last night - ever. 
She has to drop it because she just doesn’t have room in her schedule. (She is keeping choir, though.) She’s been in orchestra for 6 years. I wish there was a way for kids to stay with it without having it take up a class spot, but there isn’t.</p>
<p>Gibson - thank you for the movie suggestion. I had thought about that, but no projector or screen and I don’t know anyone who has that.</p>
<p>suzy - I understand! My S switched from band in 8th grade to choir in 9th grade, and even though it was a good decision (choir is a huge, very fun program at our school and opens the door for him to be cast in shows), we were both sad the other day when he got his trumpet out to give to his cousin. He played a few notes and said, “Yeah, I wish I could have done both.” He really got a nice sound on trumpet. Oh well. You just can’t do everything!</p>
<p>I have been down this road with my son who just finished his freshman year at college and now am going down it again with my HS freshman daughter.</p>
<p>Somehow, my son has managed to do just fine even though he was Sal-the Val ended up unfortunately having a hard time freshman year in college.</p>
<p>My son (who told me per his calculations would have been Val if he had dropped band before he finally had to in Senior year due to scheduling conflicts) does not regret one bit his choice. Did it cost him in admission results-perhaps one Ivy WL would have been an acceptance based on past practices but you know what-he wouldn’t have gone there anyway so it doesn’t matter-and even if he would have it still wouldn’t matter if trying to be number 1 made him miserable. He asked me after he figured out during freshman year if he should drop band-I am so glad I told him to do what made him happy. He told me something the day after he got some painful Ivy rejections and I told him I hadn’t done enough for him-he told me I gave him the greatest gift any parent could give-I let him be a kid. I will never forget that and it is a good feeling to know for him I did the right thing.</p>
<p>He tells me of the kids he is at school with who are coming from IB programs or who have countless AP’s who are completely burnt out. I strongly advise you to do what is right for your child-no one knows them like you do. Advice is great and helpful-but I can’t treat my kids alike because they are completely different. </p>
<p>My daughter looks like she will be in the running for the top spot as well. I think the best thing that could happen to her would be a B-it would take her out of this ranking game and allow her to enjoy HS a lot more and take more risks-take a class out of her comfort zone, add an extra after school activity or try a different sport.</p>
<p>I am far more relaxed with her. I know what I need to do for her-make sure she takes classes in the proper sequence that are classes at her level of ability, and keep her on track for all the SAT tests that unfortunately are part of this racket-but that’s all I can do for her. If she has the ability to take a class and doesn’t because of some concern it would hurt her GPA-or if she takes the class but chooses the easier teacher even though the harder teacher will actually teach her more although her grade will be lower-shame on me.</p>
<p>It’s easy for me to lose sight of the big picture. I am a very competitive person and it is so easy for me to get into that mindset with my children. Fortunately, I am able to pull back when I get too intense and realize this is not a competition-although it sure seems like it is.</p>
<p>Nice post, pepper!</p>
<p>Great post Pepper. I think there is a lot to learn from in this, particularly for those of us who are starting down this road for the first time. Thank you.</p>
<p>I have enjoyed reading this discussion. My S2 is a musician. This is who he is and it is what he intends to continue with. He is in both Orchestra and Choir as classes during the school day. Academics are important to us (he will be taking honors and AP when available and so far has straight A’s). We are just going to have to be creative about the foreign language component. Since our school doesn’t weight grades, it is an option to do online classes and community college classes to get it in. It was a hard decision to make. It was a no brainer for him to take orchestra, as he is a bass player. We hadn’t even considered choir for him until the teacher approached us 8th grade year. This choir teacher is unbelievably talented, and is teaching music theory that I didn’t get until college. We don’t regret this decision.
We can do this I suppose, because we know S has no interest in attending an Ivy, and leans towards a conservatory type program. What we do want for him, is a well balanced high school education that challenges him and allows him the opportunity to choose a conservatory or an LAC. This is my S dream and life. It is a different path from those whose dream it is to attend an Ivy. To each his own, and I suspect each family knows what is best for them, although it saddens me to think a kid has to choose between one interest type class for an academic one to be the “top”.</p>
<p>momsings - sounds like your S is at a great high school to get him where he wants to go! </p>
<p>It isn’t just Ivy bound kids who have to pick and choose and not take everything they want to take, and it isn’t all about protecting the GPA either. At our school, there are 7 class periods when a student can take a class (and an 8th period for a school wide study hall). With 5 classes going toward the 5 required core subjects each year (math, science, english, foreign lang, social studies), there are just 2 classes per semester for electives. With choir taking one of those spots, if he had stayed in band, he would never have had any other elective his whole four years of high school! There are many more electives that he wants to take than he will be able to take because of time, but he just flat out didn’t want to take both choir and band and never have another elective at all. </p>
<p>Also, our high school doesn’t accept online or community college credits, so you pretty much need to take the classes you’re required to take. So dropping band is exactly what is allowing him to spread his wings and sample other interests.</p>
<p>PinoNoir–I am jealous of the 7 period day…if we had that, none of this would be an issue!</p>
<p>Yes the band does cut into other electives-it’s a shame really but senior year he had to drop it-he and the teacher were willing to work after school so he could continue but the school said no. I have no idea why but it was sad.</p>
<p>I also agree course selection isn’t just guided by GPA or Ivy dreams-it’s many times decided by what is available. Our public HS like many others has cut many classes and other ones and even entire programs are barely surviving-so it is not always a clear cut decision.</p>
<p>True that, about the funding and cuts. That is sad. Ultimately, we all have to make choices and I guess that is a reflection of life in general. It is simply not possible to do it all, whatever the reason!</p>