Welcome @TalksToTrees It is nice to see another Boy Scout in the group. My son earned Eagle earlier this year and is currently SPL (again).
Son claims he is making some progress on his essays but I haven’t seen anything yet. We are waiting on ACT Scores (next week hopefully) and an answer on a fly-in application. His first deadline is Nov 1st for an ED school then we have 2 more that I’d like to have done by Dec 1st (possible Merit). After that he will most likely wait to hear back from the ED school and if he doesn’t get in it will be a mad rush for Jan 1st application deadlines.
Welcome, @TalksToTrees! Florida has around a dozen state unis, each with their own application. Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama don’t use CA, either.
S listed a couple of intended majors on his applications. He’s got two in mind, and a third that will probably be a minor, so he just listed all three. Fortunately for him they’re all in the general Arts and Sciences college. If he were dead set on wanting to be a chemical engineer or pharmacist or psych major then that’s what he’d aim for. But if he were the sort of kid who just figured he’d be a chem eng major because they make decent money and he can’t think of anything else (or because, like one of his friends, he truly is undecided and his dad is telling him it’s easier to transfer out of engineering school than in, so declare engineering “just in case”), I’d probably suggest he not.
I was in college during the big recession in the 70’s, but even then no one really worried about making a living. It was unstated, but everyone assumed that you could study whatever you wanted to, and as long as you did your work and graduated you’d get a decent job. And that was more or less the case. It’s certainly not the same for our kids, who are living in a world of diminishing resources and widening income disparity. It’s sad how college has become more of a trade school than an education (not that they’re mutually exclusive). And as has been pointed out on the thread there’s more to life than earning money. I linked to this article several days ago, but it’s relevant to this discussion also: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-how-to-measure-a-colleges-value.html?ref=opinion&_r=1
When S14 went to an admitted students day at Tulane one of the deans told the kids/parents that the vast majority of students there graduate with a different major than their stated/intended major upon matriculating. Furthermore, when they query their kids three years after graduation a significant majority of the kids are doing something that appears to have no relationship to their major upon graduation. That said, it’s a risky luxury to pursue a major that provides for no tangible opportunities after graduation other than graduate school (and, for many of those majors, then again no opportunities).
My father dropped out of college during the depression and sold furniture for the rest of his life. He hated it. His only requirement of us three kids when we went off to college was that we end up doing something that, on a day to day basis, we’d enjoy doing. . . S14 applied to all his schools with the stated goal of being a marine science (actually, marine chemistry where it was offered) major. After all the acceptances were in he had a meltdown, whereupon he told us that although his talents were in math/science, he had no interest in studying math/science. He’s now an economics major, aiming for a business B.A. and hoping to land a job that has something to do with professional or collegiate sports. Regardless of what he’s doing, he would like to do it around sports and sports people. Why not give it a shot? We’re thrilled that he figured this out sooner rather than later, and had the wherewithal to act on it.
I agree with the advice of gaming the system by not applying to schools with a stated major that is oversubscribed. I guess if that major fits one of the main themes or narratives of the application it’s a different story, but part of the diversity that schools are seeking likely involves a diversity of interests. So if it’s a choice between yet another psychology major or an economics major/psychology minor who wants to explore behavioral economics, well . . .
Welcome @TalksToTrees. Parenthetical thinking is a virtue. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
UMCP was on our S14’s list, even as a (way) out of stater. We really liked the honors college, and they have some excellent engineering programs. It’s one of the of the better state flagships (of which there are a lot of good ones), and the kids must stay in shape walking from class to class – that campus is huge.
Unfortunately because of the ever rising cost of a college education , students can’t learn for learning sake or life enrichment . They have to pick something that will allow them to pay off all of those loans and survive.
@AsleepAtTheWheel I had an interesting discussion with someone recently whose kid is applying to Penn about Economics. Apparently Penn offers economics in two schools, arts and sciences and Wharton but one gives a BS and the other a BA. There is also a difference in terms how much of Math is involved (I think Wharton has a lot more). So does your son’s school have more or less Math in Economics?
There are many of my friends’ children who are still contemplating changing their majors after 2 years in college and several have also changed their majors. Someone told me recently that their kid transferred out of our state flagship to an ivy with a completely different major after just one year. I agree that what one applies for usually makes no difference in terms of what they graduate in. The main issue most people have once they enter college is that college has many schools and there are restrictions in terms of whether someone can transfer from one college to another or even have a limitation in terms of the number they admit to within a specific major.
Edit: There was an underlying question being debated about Penn’s Economics programs. If the goal is to get into Penn to study Econ, is it easier to get into one school or the other since both offer Econ.
This has been a fascinating conversation to read as I am going to be an education major. The looks you get when you say that are often quite shocking- people responsd as if you aren’t going to college at all. I understand that it isn’t necessarily well paying or easy but it’s what I want to do and I’m thankful that my parents(my mom is a teacher herself) and my guidance counselor support me.
@texaspg – Thanks for such provocative thoughts/comments. S14 is at Emory, which offers a B.B.A. (business B.A.). As opposed to the setup that your mentioned, i.e., that one has to apply to the undergraduate business program from the get-go, Emory doesn’t take applications to their undergraduate business program until mid-way through sophomore year – the program starts at the beginning of the junior year. There are majors/concentrations within the business program that are much more quantitative than others, involving both higher level math and computer programming. My guess is that S14 will NOT go in that direction, and that he’ll drift more towards the marketing direction. But we’ll see.
S16 is out east doing an overnight at a New England LAC that sends a lot of kids into finance and consulting. One of the most successful double majors there is economics and math. S16 thinks he wants to be a physician (I’ve not yet been able to talk him out of it), but he’s well-suited for that double major combo. We’ll see.
@readingclaygirl – Teaching is a wonderful profession, BUT: As a teenager you’ve had very little to no exposure to all sorts of jobs and professions. I get a bit concerned when kids start taking a definitive direction towards a profession that is one to which they’ve had direct exposure, e.g. teaching, nursing, medicine, etc. I worry that they’re limiting themselves by not looking beyond the familiar. My older son would have never thought that he’d be interested in business. His idea of business was sitting in a cubicle like Dilbert. But this summer he did an internship with the marketing/“education” group at the SF 49ers, and he loved it. Teaching may certainly be the right thing for you to do, but I’d urge you to be open-minded as you move forward, as there are lots of professions with which you are currently unfamiliar (but may be a good fit for you), and as such they’re not even on your radar.
One of my biggest pet peeves is the criticism of education majors. Yet, in the same breath, people gripe about how we need good teachers. !!!
I admire education majors - I’ve suggested it to my daughter, because I think she has the personality to be a good teacher and work well with kids. She’s not convinced, though…
D wants to major in History or Anthropology, though… maybe. We get a lot of unsolicited advice about that… really, we do.
She’s not even graduated high school yet, and I’m already tired of hearing it.
What they may not realize is D will graduate debt-free and still have money to put toward grad school, if all goes as planned. I realize a lot of kids are not in that position, though, so I get where the advice is coming from…
Welcome @TalksToTrees – I’ve been known to talk to trees myself. We are also in MD and also expecting to complete the idiosyncratic UMCP app, but S16 will also complete the UCaliformia apps which are not CA either. About half the schools on his list don’t use CA. I hope that all gets done but I won’t be surprised if it doesn’t. It is daunting to think how many times he’ll have to enter the same info. As someone who loathed filling out the same emergency cards with the same info year after year (in duplicate, for two kids) until they went electronic, I do appreciate the Common App.
I was disheartened to hear from @texspg about the bias against Psychology majors as that’s how S16 is leaning (though he might list two or even three majors and he wants one of them to be really surprising). Then I arrived at work to hear about the latest executive order, described here: https://hbr.org/2015/09/why-the-u-s-government-is-embracing-behavioral-science . Psychology has so much to offer to society, and this push may make a degree more valuable.
I think Education is also a viable option though I know right now it is a really tough climate. My advice to S16 is to study a subject first, and then if you want to teach it to others you will be very well grounded and passionate. In some classes his grades have suffered as he was too busy helping others to get his own work done efficiently, And there’s something ironic about the kids who dislike school ending up as teachers. If you love learning it makes sense.
Add me to the list of people who get tired of hearing negative things about teaching! The comments-ugh! “But you’re so smart, why do you want to be “just” a teacher!” and “Teachers don’t get paid much and they’re not very bright. It’s kids in the bottom of the class that choose education majors.” And so on.
My D has known since she was young that she wanted to teach-and she has as much as a youngster can, through church school, an after school program, tutoring and a summer camp. These experiences only solidified her desire to teach.Her senior project will revolve around exploring teaching in great depth. If she changes her mind later, it won’t be because she didn’t know enough about other options or had an unrealistic view of teaching. D also has other interests and I suspect she will always have 3 or 4 irons in the fire. But I don’t think she’ll ever stop teaching in some form.
Readingclaygirl-I think I recall you saying you’re African American? As you might know, there’s a huge shortage of teachers of color and indications that minority kids do better with teachers who look like them. That’s my D’s driving thought-to inspire kids like her. We’ve got a wealth of information on the education programs at several HBCU’s if you’re interested. I’d be happy to share.
@TalksToTrees welcome. I am sure your DS is on track. My DD has not really solidified her list yet, or at least has not yet hierarchically ranked it. She also needs to identify and apply for merit scholarships. And major? Isn’t that supposed to be a product of the college education process, not an input into it?
Chill, I’m sure your DS has it covered! And be happy that he has such a good head on his shoulders.
@dyiu13 Are you speaking to me when you say joking around? If you are referring to the 10 year public service loan forgiveness, I am dead serious. There are numerous loan payback options including loan forgiveness for teachers as well as non profit employees. There are also new loan payback option for high monetary loans which are especially good for grad students with high debt. I have a very large loan but cannot work right now. I am a repayment plan that adjusts to income (uses or AGI to adjust monthly amount) and then is forgiven after 20 years of payments. Lots of options to stay out of debt. A social worker with a Masters, who had to take out a loan for grad school has options and being stuck in debt forever does not have to happen.
@texaspg thank you for the link. I do not think my daughter has listed only one major on her apps. She has been listing several areas of interest. Maybe she will end up in one of them .
@LKnomad Oops! I thought my comment would show up right under the proposed renting of a condo for visiting relatives during graduation week! That’s why I didn’t add an @. Giving relatives their own space is priceless.
Sorry for the confusion! I really appreciated your true-life story. And we’re now going to be researching IBLR and PSLF (not sure if the world used those abbreviations).
@sseamom No, I am not African American. However in the realm of lack of representation, I do have hearing loss and there are very few teachers with visable disabilities.
I have nothing against psychology majors. I am only going by a game the college counselors enacted at our local school where they were stating a perceived bias in the admissions process due to too many asking to major in the subject. At the end of the game, they made the person with the last name Kennedy to the front of the line even though upto that point, the person was 9th out of 10.
College admissions are not necessarily fair and if they were, there wouldn’t be 2 million unique users of college confidential a month trying to figure out the ins and outs.
@4kids2graduate I called it idiosyncratic because in 2014 the UMCP application had a bunch of short answer questions in addition to the usual 500 word personal essay. It was like tweeting an application. Looks like this year the questions are slightly different:
If I could travel anywhere, I would go to…
The most interesting fact I ever learned from research was…
In addition to my major, my academic interests include…
My favorite thing about last Thursday was…
Something you might not know about me is…
160 characters is a challenging, but refreshing. My S14 avoided overthinking. UMCP is a fine school, more competitive than many state unis.
@texaspg I see, it was an exercise staged not by actual college reps but guidance counselors. That makes me feel a little better.
