@sseamom I disagree. It has nothing to do with being clueless. It had to do with some jobs being out of the mainstream. My degree is in education. My adviser suggested the little known field of institutional research as a career option because she knew me well enough to know my interest in data management and my personality. I explored it and loved it. This is what college offers. The chance to find out about things you can’t just learn about on YouTube or Google. Sometimes it takes people not Google.
With S16 gone on a college visit for the weekend my wife and I spent the day in Monterey and Carmel. The house seemed so empty Thursday and Friday with him gone, so we decided to see if there would be life after children. We had a wonderful day, so I think that the answer to the question is, “Yes. There is.”
Four years ago the son of friends of ours headed off to Penn State. He was planning to do some sort of engineering major, and by the end of his freshman year he decided to major in petroleum engineering. Oil was $120/barrel, fracking was spreading all over the country faster than Starbucks, and petroleum engineers were at the top of every list of “most lucrative bachelors degrees”. You can already see where this is going. Oil is now $45/barrel, and fracking, exploration, and drilling are grinding to a near standstill. Not only can he not make the $130K/yr that last year’s grads signed on for, he can’t find a job. Nor can any of his classmates. Kids who were hired last year are being laid off. Etc., etc. . . I’ve seen the same thing happen in nursing and teaching (at least out here in California) over the past decade.
There’s a cautionary tale in there somewhere, but I’m not exactly sure what it is. I guess it has something to do with getting an education that’s broad-based and diverse enough so that you’re not at the mercy of the bottom falling out of the only job market for which you’re qualified. But to give up what may truly be a ‘passion’ and instead choose a pathway based on risk aversion? Not such an attractive proposition either. Ugh.
Reading all the thoughtful and provocative comments here, I come away with the notion that there’s no “one size fits all” solution. There are kids (and parents) who by virtue of how they’re put together are far more comfortable with a definitive pathway which they will follow from the outset. There are other kids who will go in with a tabula rasa. And there will be kids in the middle – who start with something resembling a plan, but abandon that plan pretty readily when other opportunities present themselves. I tell my kids that I’d like them to have some sort of plan, but to be open and flexible (as long as they don’t choose gender studies (my bias, I know)).
Which brings up the topic of academic risk. One of the biggest problems with the college admissions rat race is that it penalizes kids who are willing to take academic risk in high school, i.e., to take courses or to try EC’s out of their comfort zone. Hopefully that won’t be the case in college, but it will require a change in mindset. And the pre-professional kids (pre-med, pre-law, etc.) may get stuck in the same no-risk quicksand in college, too.
@petrichor11 – When our school’s senior college counselor guided my son through choosing his ‘college list’, he stressed that the differences in core curriculum/distribution requirements was something that was critically important. He said that in his experience the most common reason that kids are unhappy their freshman year and/or bomb out academically has to do with how they handle core curriculum requirements. He wasn’t arguing for or against distribution requirements, just that my son should pay attention to the impact (or lack thereof) that these requirements would have on his freshman year course selections. His worst case scenario was that freshman year ended up being 13th grade, where you’re taking English (to satisfy the freshman writing requirement), another year of your foreign language (to satisfy an foreign language requirement), and two other bland introductory courses. It’s like eating melba toast, unsalted. Not very engaging. Fortunately for most schools one can satisfy these requirements from a wide selection of courses, many of which are focused and interesting. But you need to make sure that these courses are actually accessible to freshmen (largely not the case for my older son at Emory).
Of note, a school that S16 is attracted to has no core curriculum. No required courses of any sort. A result is that it’s a lot easier to double major, as you have greater freedom to take what you want to take from the get-go. But there are some obvious potential problems with this end of the spectrum, also.
That all said, our wonderful and resilient kids are going to do just fine. I try to protect mine from all of my worrying and useless mental gymnastics.
P.S. I apologize for the length of this note. Sorry.
Just read an article on CNN about Trump at the homecoming dance. They mentioned that an AP Gov class brought him in. How exciting!
LKnomad, I think it’s both nowadays. Kids DO research things just for the heck of it-at least my D and her friends all do-and they share what they learn with each other. But they also get ideas (about careers/majors and other things not school-related) from people they encounter and places they go. D’s school routinely has visitors in esoteric fields, often STEM, but not always, who talk about what they do, how they got there, and answer questions about their paths. Yesterday it was people from Ford showing off their self-parking cars. The engineering teacher is actually still running his own company that does something involving 3D printing, and he takes on interns.
So no, it’s not only Google, but in my experience, that is the first place kids look for information, THEN they talk to adults. From what I see among D and her friends is that they have FAR more information and experience at their fingertips that we did as high school students. I actually don’t know too many kids at her school who picked or are looking at “safe” majors or careers just because that’s all they know about. But then, they don’t go to an ordinary school. Maybe that’s more common in traditional large high schools.
@sseamom At my son’s school there are few chances for the kids to hear from esoteric fields. I attended a career day and most of the students ended up in the rooms with the people from fashion design, law enforcement, and very well known fields. They put me in the wrong room and I got a bunch of boys who thought they were hearing about auto mechanics. I am hoping I got at least one interested in data analysis. I told them terrifying stories of how big brother is watching them through their purchases!
Most of the kids from our high school have never really thought outside the box. Almost everyone my son knows is applying to the exact same colleges - the state schools. Nobody even knows the private colleges exist. My son also said that just about every single person he has talked to wants to study engineering. I don’t think any of them actually know what engineering is but they all want to go into it.
@AsleepAtTheWheel I know several biomechanical engineers who are doctors or on their way to becoming doctors. Apparently a pretty popular major at Stanford for would be doctors since they don’t have a major called bioMEDical engineering.
@LKnomad your school sounds like the one here. Bright kids who all want to go to state Uni and study engineering or premed. They have no clue.
Had a great visit yesterday to a nice super-affordable public liberal arts college. It was so perfect for her academically and so perfect for my budget too. I was ready to sign her up (joke!), but can’t tell if D feels the same. At this point, I’m just encouraging her to apply and we’ll make choices later. Sure wish she could “fall in love” or “find her people” like I read about online!
@AsleepAtTheWheel Your observation regarding nurses is very accurate, or other health professionals as well. I’ve seen the entire spectrum when talking to potential students from students who are "called and drawn " to nursing or therpay to ones that go into it believing " I can make a lot of money and I’ll always be able to find a job " I can honestly say that the ones who are from the first end of the spectrum are usually much more successful than the latter. Many potential students don’t think about the loss of family times on weekends or holidays or the actual physical and emotional demands of the job. They don’t realize that healthcare has experienced periods of glut and famine in their professions , and that when they graduate they may be competing with individuals who may have years of experience for entry level jobs because they are willing to make sacrifices in salaries just to have a job.
Another issue that some may forget is that colleges and universities are are businesses that must make money to keep their doors open, even non profit institutions . While I am not suggesting that they would purposefully mislead students to meet their admission standards , their interests are to the institution not the student . That is why it’s important for students and their families to do their homework regarding their educational interests . I can remember several years back shopping in a uniform store when the upcoming class of Respiratory Therapist students were shopping for their supplies before the semester started . There was one student in particular standing with her list and out loud she said “Mask with a face shield? What do I need that for ?” This was the first item on her list. I asked her what major she was buying supplies for , and she informed me "respiratory therapy ". When I informed her why that was her most important item on her list, her facial expression was priceless. Too often students look at programs where they believe they can make “good” money in a relatively short period of time, and they don’t consider the requirements of their job. I encourage anyone to have their students to job shadow the professions that they are interested in before enrolling in that program. Most health professions require that now, but other majors do not. It’s important to not only research opportunities online etc, but to experience it if possible.
Good luck to everyone’s children that they find what works for them.
@carolinamom2boys – When kids tell me that it takes too long to be a doctor I tell them that the long training shouldn’t discourage them. I tell them that, as hard as it is to believe, they’re going to be 28 or 30 y.o. at some point in their life regardless of what they study/do, and they might as well be doing something that they enjoy. I guess a similar logic can be employed for the major/career choice thing: You’re better off studying and doing something you enjoy, because you can’t predict the economy and/or job market one way or the other. It would be worse training to do something that you think is a chore, only to find out that in addition you can’t find a job. Of course this doesn’t apply to majors/fields that have already had poor employment outlooks for years and years.
A buddy of mine met his wife at UC Santa Cruz. He was working there, and she was an older student there. She’d been working as a legal secretary after high school and started college later in life. She graduated UCSC with a degree in Women’s Studies, and immediately went back to work at her old job as a legal secretary (same firm, same position). How silly.
The story has a happy ending. Twenty years later they’re deliriously happy together and have a wonderful and interesting son. Had she not gone to UCSC they’d never have met. In addition, she can now do almost all of her work from home. Working at UCSC is a state job, so he retired in his 50’s with a great pension and health care benefits for life (don’t get me started). They don’t want for much from a material standpoint, so they’ve carved out a wonderful life with lots of free time together and quality time with their only child.
After that tangent, the point is that there are some majors that lead nowhere. Doesn’t mean that you can’t get a job, but it will have nothing to do with what you studied.
@AsleepAtTheWheel I totally agree. My nephew went to a well known technical college in the South to initially pursue an architecture degree,then switched majors to business and ultimately graduated with a BS in Psychology. If you knew my nephew you’d be “what?” He now has his dream job working for the government declassifying documents. He loves history and to read, and I can’t see him being any happier than he is right now. It can work.
@carolinamom2boys – That’s a great anecdote. I bet he’s a really interesting guy to talk to. Must have all sorts of insights, and a window into the lives of so many people and their thoughts, writings, and actions. And who even knew that a job like that existed?
@AsleepAtTheWheel I never even knew that job exhisted , but I could definitely see DS16 doing it.
I think mine’d be the one classifying them!
Eldest stepD has one of those degrees that is iconically “useless” (no, not Gender Studies, but along those lines). Ten years out of school she makes more than any of her assorted parents in a fairly stable field (or at least, one that can’t easily be outsourced to Uzbekhistan). They didn’t care what her degree was in, just that she had one.
Personally, I’d kind of like to know what Carnegie-Mellon’s bagpiping majors go on to do.
Petrichor-I will ask my BIL. He is a CM grad with a degree in theater. A successful one, too. I’ll bet he ran into some of those majors in his day. The church I work for recently had a funeral in which the family wanted a professional bagpiper to play. I was tasked to find one, and was surprised at how many professional bagpipers live in the greater Seattle area. Perhaps some of those majors go on to actually make a living at it.
My daughters interest have spurred from her high school classes. She has been taking medical completer classes since 8th or 9th grade as well as college classes. The teacher for some of these classes tells it like it is and does not sugar coat a thing. It is a very good beginning.
My meditation this week on education ROI and careers now has me thinking about another aspect of young adult life in this new era: dating, courtship, and marriage/partnerships. I’m starting to wonder If the careful and driven approach to college admissions taken by so many of this generation of kids-with-aspirations will be echoed in how they pair up for adult life. My friend who works in healthcare quipped that it used to be that nurses might marry a doctor, but now the doctor wants to marry the pla$tic $urgeon. I wonder if we’re going to see more class-insular mating-up. What will be, will be, eh?
@dyiu13 - I can’t imagine there will be a long line of people hoping to marry plastic surgeons (imagine the self-image issues 
)
@dyiu13 My first day of my Intro to OT my professor announced " If anyone is here to marry a Dr or to make a lot of money, you’re in the wrong place. You may want to consider a different profession" . I lost 4 classmates shortly thereafter. That was 30 years ago.
This generation’s “baggage” going into relationships might be their student loan debt.