Parents of the HS Class of 2017 - 3.0 to 3.4 GPA

Parents Forum
2421

@eandesmom If it’s only 1 school that is bouncing I’d double/triple check they don’t have an incorrect e-mail address.

We are Catholic but not heavily religious. I went to a Catholic college and while the religious nature of the school was present nothing was required beyond a religious class which was a study of all religions except Christian ones. There was certainly no prayer and I don’t recall any crucifixes. I did have a nun for a prof (she was awesome!). I really think it depends on the school. We’ve toured several Lutheran affiliated schools and none have had a religious vibe to them. At 1 it was suggested that the kids could study up on the altar (which shocked and appalled me).

2422

@curiositycat333, no, unfortunately I don’t know about the Benedictines…the Jesuits are the only ones I have any familiarity with. I’m not religious, per se, but I’m (cautiously) spiritual and (somewhat) open. I admit I’m aesthetically drawn to the outward pomp and splendor and inward mysticism of some orthodox faiths (the cathedrals and temples! Candles/ incense/chanting. Also, the quiet, personal aceticism and ethics of others… Guess I’m fascinated just thinking about religeon…the wonderful, the horrible, the transcendent, and the dubious/quirky aspects. I like thinking about what needs religion serves, even when it causes other problems or defies logic… I DO hate when anyone’s faith is manipulated for the gain of someone in power or to control or harm. Or to stop the process of scientific inquiry.

So. Having said this, I think any moderately religious college (if it’s otherwise a fine school with intellectual integrity) could be a part of a great education for someone of no religeon or another religion, in the spirit of learning another paradigm, as long as dogmatic teachings aren’t forced and disagreeing students aren’t marginalized. I also have no problem with (limited) required religion classes (even those taught from the point of view of that religion) as long as there is no penalty for opposing views. I look at it as a kind of ethnography fieldwork. But a vulnerable kid might not be able to synthesize it that way. Or have the interest or comfort level,

DH is a non-practicing Jew and I’m not sure if he’d be super-happy if our daughter went to a Lutheran school (Martin Luther wrote some pretty horrible things about Jews.) However, I understand the historical context and I think the church has recently recanted these teaching. But still! Having said that, I’m pretty drawn to St. Olaf’s, as Lutheran as it is. I think the school works hard to get students to think about the meaning of their lives, and the idea of vocation as something you could have and feel whether you are an atheist or Lutheran. I’ve never actually been there, so I might be wrong.

I have a feeling that, generally, schools affiliated with Jesuit, Quaker, Episcopal and, of course, Unitarian churches would be the most open, and mainstream Presbyterian and Methodist schools wouldn’t be far behind. My freshman year was spent at a loosely Protestant LAC, and I can’t remember a single thing related to religious education while I was there.

2423

S17 followed up on WUE application via email, there were questions about his grades. After explanation, today S17 was notified that his MSU (Mt) merit award was was tripled to $48,000 ($12k/year), a little better than WUE. That, with world class skiing 20 minutes away and a cool town makes it very much a contender.

@CoyoteMom --my good friend’s D16 is an OOS freshman at W&M, also a history major. She was warned away due to the intense reputation, but she thought about it and realized her closest friends in high school were super high achievers (she’s a very good student, but not like them). When she visited, she felt she had found her people. Her first semester grades are a 4.0-- better than in high school, and said she finds it easier than high school (our high school is a very good prep school FWIW).

2424

@Hankster1361 , holy merit award! Congrats on the windfall. Montana State?

Should TacoSon get a yes from W&M, I am hopeful he’ll find smart, quirky kids instead of grandstanding, boastful kids – which I understand is common at our other high-stats state flagship …

I attended a Catholic college and for the most part you can take or leave the religious aspect. It’s there if you want it, easy to skip if you don’t (though you need to get used to monks with shaved heads and sandals sitting next to you in class at times). I’m guessing that’s not the case at a place like Liberty or Grove City.

2425

@tacocat333 – yes, Montana State. Re W&M, that’s exactly the type of kids my friend’s D16 found there, and why she felt she found her people.

2426

My atheist/agnostic S15 attends a Jesuit university. During the admitted student tour he was concerned the school seemed “churchy” because they mentioned some religious-based programs, of course there were statues and such around, etc. But as a student? That has faded completely into the background and he says he doesn’t notice the religious aspect of the school at all.

Congrats to all of your '17ers. I was in this group two years ago and I enjoy popping into your thread to read the success stories! Brings back fond (and stressful!!!) memories.

2427

Regarding Jesuit schools, @twoinanddone’s description sounds like what we saw and heard at Gonzaga. There is definitely a religious presence, but no pressure to be a part of it (aside from the required religion courses, but they are not some kind of Catholic propaganda). D is not a combative kind of atheist who wants to convert (de-convert?) anyone. She doesn’t care about other peoples’ religion as long as they’re not trying to push it on others or do bad things in the name of their faith. Gonzaga even has a dedicated prayer space for Muslims, which is a good example of their respect for the views of others.

@oneofthosemoms, thanks for sharing your S’s Jesuit university experience. My D’s mind was pretty much put at ease on our visit, but it’s great to hear from someone who has experienced a couple of years. Regarding statues, apparently the Saint Ignatius statue at Gonzaga is referred to as “Darth Vader” by the students – there is a certain resemblance!

@eandesmom, a very nice summary of our variety! I also feel you on the “forcing your kid to communicate with the school” thing. When this comes up at our house, I know exactly the look I’m going to see on D’s face. Good luck to you!

@tacocat333, on the subject of W&M, my niece is a grad and I was talking to her about D’s college search and lack of EC’s. She told me she got into W&M with one EC that was pretty meh – I was kind of surprised. I don’t know her stats, but they were probably pretty high. Her greatest regret was that Jon Stewart gave the commencement speech the year AFTER she graduated! My nephew (on H’s side) is also a W&M grad. He failed out of HS due to making extremely bad choices, joined the Army at 17, was injured in Iraq, had PTSD, left the Army and went to W&M. I think he may have done a year of community college first. So they would seem to admit a wide variety of students! (Also, both loved the school – nephew met his wife there and they married in the lovely, old campus chapel).

And now seeing your comment on what kind of kids attend W&M, hopefully my two data points will put you at some ease. Neither my niece nor nephew would have liked a school with boastful grandstanders!

@MamaBear16, I’ll try not to get my hopes up (and certainly won’t say a word to D), but extra merit would be some nice icing on the cake!

@curiositycat333, do Lutheran schools have a rep I don’t know about? I would think it might depend on which of the three Lutheran branches they are associated with. The only Lutheran school I’m at all familiar with is St. Olaf which is associated with ELCA, the most liberal branch. One of oldest D’s closest friends who is an atheist graduated from there and never had any issues. He enjoyed his religion classes and said the discussions were very open. (Side-note - I grew up in a Lutheran family, but learned about the different types of Lutherans from my father-in-law who is a Presbyterian minister!)

@inthegarden, I appreciate your thoughts on religion which mirror mine to some extent (though I wouldn’t express it nearly as well!)

@Hankster1361, congrats on the MSU merit! D looked at MSU early in the process and really liked it. She would have applied if they offered some kind of concentration in the specialty she wants. Bozeman seems like a great college town.

2428

RE: conversations about ideology at religious schools, particularly as it relates to antisemitism. (mentioned in post #2421) I think it’s hard to find a long established European version of Christianity without some anti-semitism built in. Pretty much everyone who lived in the 1500s wrote nasty things about the Jewish faith, Luther was not alone. Catholic Spain, for example, was running the inquisition in the 1500s… the period as a whole was not a bright spot for diversity and tolerance. Whether or not that influences decisions for colleges is an entirely personal matter

2429

So, it looks like we need to move on from American. Neither admissions nor financial aid office was able to offer anything other than an apology for their crappy net price calculator. I know D will be fine and I will be fine, but it really does suck right now. We’re going to talk about it at home tonight and then tomorrow I’ll trigger the withdrawal of her application. Time to start loving the schools that are loving her back.

2430

@klinska , bummer! But on the bright side at least you have schools that really want your D there. That’s a good thing!

2431

@klinska I am so so sorry. That really sucks on every level.

@snoozn he was so funny.

Mom, I know how to email them back, you don’t need to babysit me.
Mom, how early can I get there and leave?
Mom, what do they mean by this (incredibly poorly worded and confusing question).

And yes, I know I don’t need to babysit him. But I also knew he wasn’t entirely privy (or tracking actually) the travel arrangements and didn’t know the answers to those questions.

He did send round 1 of the emails. Hasn’t responded to both that came back. One which doesn’t need a response but the other he really doesn’t have an answer to as it depends on whether a school stays in play or not and isn’t ready to make that call. Ugh.

2432

I’m sorry about American. I can commiserate from last year.

2433

@klinska Boo hiss to American. Their loss.

2434

@klinska , another boo hiss to AU from me. I love your wording of loving schools that love our kids back and totally agree!

2435

@klinska, hugs to you and your D and yet another boo-hiss to American. At least you’re out of limbo and I bet she will love other choices now that she can concentrate on them.

2436

Thanks, all–D is taking it even better than I had hoped–we’re dusting ourselves off and focusing on the good stuff. There are certainly worse things in life than not getting into a school that is looking to separate you from over a quarter of a million dollars! :-bd

2437

@toowonderful, yes, it’s quite a personal matter, and may seem inconceivable to some, to remain so influenced by happenings of the 1500/s. The decision is also influenced by events much more recent than that. Many of these churches have only recently acknowledged/apologized/recanted. And though the Nazi’s themselves were not church affiliated, the Lutheran and Catholic culture at large of the central Europe that brought/allowed them to power were. So many Jews felt falsely safe in a Germany where they had practically assimilated to mainstream culture for generations, and didn’t escape when they could, because they trrusted their Catholic/Protestant neighbors. I think it’s akin to a PTSD fear reaction to want to avoid reminders. Both DH’s parents, for example escaped Nazi Germany as children, and he grew up in a neighborhood in NYC that held one of the greatest concentrations of Holocaust survivors in the U.S. The fear gets transmitted on some level through generations. It does affect a person, even when irrational. In our early days I took him to a Christmas Eve service because I wanted to show him something beautiful fro my upbringing. He went readily, but started shaking uncontrollably during the service. In more recent years he has gone with not problem…the first was a gut fear reaction.

BTW, DH did interview to teach at a nice, Catholic women’s college. He was almost selected (candidate #2) …and I think he would have taken the job if he had been offered.

2438

Uggh on no aid from American @klinska . I know someone from 2 years ago who was ED there (I think), but had no aid–Ouch!

@eandesmom I can relate on having DC handle correspondence. On the scholarship app that was submitted just hours before the deadline, I was kind of nervous. Once the app was submitted, it should have gone to “complete” status, but it didn’t. When DS & I looked more closely, the HS transcripts and ACT/SAT scores were submitted and accepted, but college/university transcripts were “not received.” Ummm, that’s because he doesn’t HAVE college/university transcripts to submit. So, I had DS go into their help portal and fill out a “ticket.” He was not amused, but also didn’t want me to get any of the information back, because “he could handle it.” Of course he had to ask me what to say the problem was. 8-| Then I wasn’t expecting any answer from it until yesterday, so I asked that evening if he heard anything back–got “I don’t know, I don’t think so.” 8-| I was very happy to see that his application status changed to “complete” today. :slight_smile: As a side note, this particular scholarship group accepts unofficial HS transcripts and ACT/SAT scores saved and uploaded as pdf files, very odd…

Not much else new of the college front. DS17 has a Model UN conference out of town this weekend, then a hockey tournament the following weekend, then midterms a week after that. It never seems to end senior year…

2439

@inthegarden - I am well aware of all of those things- I teach AP European History :slight_smile: I was responding most specifically to the comment about Luther- pointing out that anti semitism was common in most forms of Christianity of the time, not unique to one thinker or sect. That doesn’t excuse or justify the intolerance of that period, but it is a fact. It one of the things my Euro students struggle most to grasp; the idea that half a million people would die in a century with the disagreement coming from the idea of the “right” way to pray to the same God. If you are looking for a challenge someday - try explaining transubstantiation vs consubstantiation as a reason for war to 15 year olds… anyway - not trying to hijack the thread with commentary on whom was the most intolerant 500 years ago…

I totally get the idea of concerns/issues with religious colleges, etc - it’s a perfectly valid thing- not at all inconceivable to me. (My D did not have any schools with religious affiliation on her list) Heaven know there are plenty of non- religious choices out there.

2440

@snoozn We have a very local Lutheran school that is very conservative. I wouldn’t send my kids there unless they had zero other options. I guess they vary and I shouldn’t consider all Lutheran schools to be as equally religious.

@eandesmom LOL… My son’s like this as well. Mom go away… I can do it myself. Until the last minute when he needs my help. This is the life of parenting a teen. Just have to expect it and laugh.

@klinska Sorry there was no aid from American. Hope something great works out instead.