Math. My son went to a very progressive middle school where they didn’t mind that he solves problems his own way. His algebra teacher used to say, “he gets the answers right - I don’t know how - but he does.” When in HS he got to his algebra II the teacher was much more strict - math was exactly her way or wrong. My son often skips conventional steps in math because in his mind they are obvious. This year in AB calc he has had a teacher that is willing to let him solve problems his way although she points out that his logic is not always the quickest way… He has always struggled with conventional math vs. the desire to understand it in his own unconventional manner. Teachers who love math seem to love him and others who can’t follow his unconventional style hate it. As a result he has a love hate relationship with math and the teachers:)
He tends excel at standardized testing since he can use his own methods and get the answers right.
When I was in graduate school, one of my statistics professors used to make frequent reference to what we had learned in “baby stats” (meaning undergraduate statistics), either to show how what he was teaching us built upon it, or was more complex. As a social science person, I don’t mind teaching intro/undergrad statistics (and lot of non-math-y social science students really struggle with it, so the term “baby stats” is pretty darn condescending), but I get what that guy meant. I imagine that for serious statisticians (i.e., people not like me), teaching introductory statistics feels incredibly elementary and boring, and I have often wondered if math professors feel that way about calculus.
Regarding calculators, they are becoming so sophisticated that I can understand why some programs would want to limit or ban their use on exams (I’ve run into this problem in statistics too … with the right calculator students can arrive at the correct answer to a multi-step problem by plugging numbers in and pressing a few buttons, showing no real understanding of the underlying concepts). On the other hand, sometimes just working out the arithmetic of a “messy” problem can be so time consuming that it is more efficient to allow calculators if the goal is to test other knowledge/skills. I always assumed that was why there were “calculator” and “no calculator” sections on standardized tests like AP calc and SAT2 Math. In social science statistics, I always allow my students to use calculators because (1) the modal anxiety (math phobia) level is already so high that I don’t want to add to it; (2) I’m not really trying to teach or assess their math skills; and (3) it’s easy to construct problems in such a way that they have to show their steps/work and can’t just skip to the final answer by using a fancy calculator (to calculate a regression coefficient, for example).
For my DS, the biggest challenge in math tests typically is making careless mistakes… but these can happen with and without calculators (punching in the wrong number; writing down calculator results incorrectly, etc.)
I never knew that about math, makes sense I guess. I’m better at traditional math like fractions, percent, adding/subtracting, can do some geometry (area, volume, angles, circle stuff), some Algebra 1.
I did a PSAT test for fun and got a 560 in math, so not good at that function stuff.
My D did well enough in math in elementary and middle school, but sometimes needed help with something and generally did not enjoy it as much.
Once she had Algebra 2, Precalc and Calc she didn’t need any help (not that I could have given it) and loved it.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek – I am so with you on this one: " I’m not joking when I say I don’t understand anything Ds says. I really don’t. Our most recent conversation contained 3 words I understood."
My son just doesn’t bother trying to tell me what he is doing. I ask him to give me the elevator speech, the one he should be able to spiel at the school science symposium where parents and other interested students walk around to learn what each of the students in the independent science research program are working on. For years, the only thing he has asked for at Christmas is college textbooks.
@262mom – RE: Baby Stats. I recall hearing in college that no one wanted to teach Micro & Macro Econ either—large intro classes required across a few colleges within the university but taught by A & S profs. Perhaps they felt the same as your stats prof?
I am terrible at higher level math but was a whiz at calculations and performed shockingly well on the SAT, back in the day. It seemed to me that you could hack your way to the answer as long as you could calculate quickly enough to eliminate choices. Now even the simple calculation skill seems to have left me.
@payn4ward my S has always loved math because “the right answer is the right answer.” He rejects things like Lang because “you can know the answer but get it wrong because you don’t say it prettily, or forget a comma.”
We did have some dark years in elementary where the curriculum was “new math-y” and the bars and dots drove S crazy. Math betrayed him because he got the right numerical answer, but got every problem wrong because he had no interest in translating backwards for all the bars and dots.
I wouldn’t feel too bad about specialists calling early courses “baby X”—it’s simply a shorthand way of saying “Hey, there’s something real here, but you have to realize that it isn’t everything, and it’s not going to make you an expert, but it’ll lay the groundwork for it if you’d like to become one.”
Of course, I’m in a field (linguistics) where most of us actually like teaching baby syntax, baby phonetics, baby [and so on] alongside the really specialized courses, so maybe I just have a twisted worldview about it.
I ignored elementary school math. That whole re-grouping and working with manipulative. To borrow my son’s phrase: they made it so much more difficult than they needed to!
@SincererLove That is great to know :). D’s subjects are Math 2 and Chem, since she wanted engineering. She also likes UM a lot. I went to a school which is about 30 minutes away from Ann Arbor so I know how cold the winters can be. D likes hot better than cold, totally opposite from me :D. I see Duke has very good full ride merit based scholarships (super competitive), are there partial ones that are less competitive?
@CT1417 Yup, more difficult than needed. For a kid who can just multiply 2-3 digits in the head, “showing the steps” is really painful.
@flatKansas Yup, there is always a right answer in math (if the question is correctly posed.)
“Not even wrong” (an insult to a claim) describes any argument that purports to be scientific but fails at some fundamental level. It is so unscientific that cannot even be proven wrong.
I now think Language Arts can be taught in a more analytical and logical way better-suited for people like me. I would have liked to have Erica Meltzer’s Critical reader book for reading comprehension in high school. The book is rather dense. I have an urge, OCD to reformat her book to san serif font and rearrange everything. The content there is really good. I just think it is typeset too ugly for a prep book. It could also use color font. oh, well.
I also like the book like Writing to the point by Kerrigan and Metcalf.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek I would have the same response to “shock wave and echo…” just thinking he is dealing with a very non-linear system. My research is closer to material science/engineering. It used to be called solid state physics in 70s, condensed matter physics in 80s as we look at soft material as well. A subset is called these days materials physics. So very down to earth compared to Astro, particle, nuclear, plasma physics.
Long-time lurker here decided to speak up…was going to join when you reached 500 pages but it flew by too fast!
Thought now might be good; D17 and I are headed to Denver tomorrow to check out University of Denver and UC at Boulder, both safety or target schools. We’re military so no real state flagship for us so my DD decided to declare Colorado as her “home” state even though we’ve never been there! Because of her dependent military status she has a unique scholarship that make some schools feasible (regardless of residency) that would not otherwise be in budget for us. Anyone visited these schools and have tips?
@Dave_N Thanks for the report on Boston schools. Boston is our next stop if we can find time in July.
Duke is also on our list but seeing it being less and less of a fit…and maybe a high reach. WashU and Emory are at the top of her list after our first round of visits when she eliminated Rhodes and Vanderbilt.
Re: math: my D’s least-strong area; she’s an “approximate” kind of girl which is why she loves language arts…can write her way into an answer.
Have really enjoyed reading all of your posts and hope I can add something at least after our school tours!
@greeny8, Wow, that’s terrible! I first heard about that branch of conspiracy theory after Sandy Hook. What terrible people – pretending these tragedies didn’t happen and then dragging in more innocent people who aren’t even connected. I hope there will be some punishment for them eventually.
Wow, y’all have been busy! I try to stay caught up reading, but we have been on a cruise. No way I can read all the posts. If there is anything I should know from the last week, will someone fill me in?
Ds called to wish dh a happy Father’s Day. I asked him about using a calculator. He said he has had more classes that did not allow them than did. He said even EMag (300 and 400 EE courses), real analysis 1 (2 did ) did not allow them. He had a couple where students could use a basic function calculator, but no scientific or graphing.
@BlueAFMom
We are from the area… Denver and Boulder have incredible weather with low humidity and lots of sunshine. Our youth culture has a huge emphasis on the outdoors. People often ask what did you do this summer and what they want to know is your outdoor adventures… The joke is you know you are in Colorado when the bike on top is the car is more expensive then the car:)!Skiiing at local ski resorts is very accessible for college kids and there are ways of lowering the costs if you are local.A new challenge for Colorado college kids is the legalization of marijuana - that just means that college kids (not all) are using it.
As for DU and CU Boulder. DU is in Denver which is close to a major airport - when you come pay attention to the distance of the ride to Boulder. Culturally Denver has a broad mix of liberal and conservative with a love of the outdoors being our common bond. Boulder leans very heavily liberal - just as Colorado Springs (where the air force academy is) leans very conservative. CU Boulder Is known as a strong engineering program but they are both strong schools across the board. CU Boulder has a string football team vs. DU has a strong lacrosse team. Both are in their towns vs. stand alone campuses.
Have you thought of CSU Fort Collins? A friends son chose CSU over the other two. Beautiful campus and very out doorsey… Worth checking out if you are going to be in the area.
@payn4ward Yep, he loves theoretical stuff. When he first met with the dept, the UG advisor had his post-doc in material physics from MIT. Didn’t interest ds at all. Unfortunately, particle physics doesn’t have high employment options.
(if the question is correctly posed.)