Parents of the HS Class of 2017 (Part 1)

@Mom2aphysicsgeek I can promise you that air show junkies use AF in more than one way. :)) Half of my life is spent at air shows, vacations built around them. The downside of marriage to an aerospace engineer who is building a seaplane in the garage.

@Ynotgo nope

@HiToWaMom that is a good question. I do wonder where the usage of the term came from as it applies to college funding. My understanding is that it originated as a term used to describe funding shortfall in the standard drug benefit offered by many Medicare prescription drug plans. Things outside the donut were covered at one level, the donut itself at another but inside the donut, not at all. I think. Super Rich though is subjective, I think. High income does not necessarily mean that families can easily pay full price. Our EFC is a joke, I will be paying my kids college costs solo but due to remarriage, my husbands income is factored in. That income is spoken for with his kids. The marriage and remarriage tax extends to college expenses. And then of course if it is a profile school they expect the bio parent, the step parent the NCP and their new spouse if they have one to all pay for the child so could count 4 incomes and do not count the step siblings costs as a factor. Of course in my case it is still just me since the NCP has zero income and the arrears alone could almost pay for all 4 years in state for one kid, or tuition alone for both. On paper though, FAFSA thinks we can easily afford a small house/condo worth of cash for each kid when nothing could be further from the truth. 2 layoffs during the recession aren’t negated quickly that’s for sure and a lot of donut hole folks are in that hole, for that very reason. Many, like me, were probably on track to have a lot more saved up only to have it derailed. If it really were just my income considered, need considered schools might be able to stay on our list but that’s not the case. Merit is all we have to go on and at the stats we are working with, it is not in plentiful supply.

@flatKansas yes, I cringe at that one. I think of it as “even selling your house you can’t afford to send your kid here, and, you definitely can’t afford to send the next kid anywhere AND you won’t be able to find a place to live even if you do sell as you’d have to move cities and downsize to find something that left that equity intact for college costs”. It’s an odd one. The market finally bounces back and you get penalized in the application round.

But hey, I suppose you could look at it as an opportunity to sell and get the next kid instate residency somewhere else.

@HiToWaMom I don’t know about the donut, but paying our expected parental contribution would definitely throw us into a hole we could never climb out of. It is irrelevant what any college or the govt thinks.

My D got her driver’s license today! What an ordeal. The DMV was short a person or 2 and it was a very long wait. I actually didn’t mind so much until they had her pull the car around into the line-up and it was about 98 degrees outside and we still had to wait an hour. That was unnecessary. I told my D I would be on my best behavior though, so I kept quiet. Also, last week, I discovered we were overdue on our car registration! That has NEVER happened, my H and I don’t remember getting the mailing. I paid quickly on-line, but knew the card wouldn’t arrive in time for today. I called DMV and they mentioned going to AAA and for $20 I could get a replacement registration card and sticker. Thank goodness I checked last week and was able to do that. So the car passed and she passed. She can drive herself to dance now, yay!

Hoping for good ACT scores for all your kids. The Feb 2015 test was one my D took with no practice because MOM said it was FINE to do as a starting point and COLLEGES would not have to see it, because ACT lets you send scores you want. Then I discovered SOME colleges ask for all scores anyway, no matter what ACT tells you…She did fine, and was able to improve her 2nd time around, but I messed up on that one.

@canypava Congratulations on D’s driving! <:-P

Now be careful out there! I mean the neighbors :slight_smile:

DS still needs practice hours… [-(

Changes make it easier for me because although the due date is earlier, we can use this year’s tax returns rather than an estimate for next years taxes. I never have all info needed to file until mid-March or later.

Be prepared—a very, very long trip report follows…

Ole Miss visit report

We visited right before the start of their summer session so campus was a bit dead, with the exception of the Boys State contingent. D is interested in the Ole Miss programs in International Studies, Arabic, and Security Studies (a minor only). I will not address any other programs or majors.

The town

Oxford is a cute college town----courthouse square, restaurants/bars, shops, tree-lined streets of gorgeous houses----with an attached campus of 2500 acres, all surrounded by houses, apartments, more restaurants, big box stores, and businesses. But Oxford itself is pretty darn rural.

We live in a university town smack in the middle of east coast suburban sprawl. D has grown up with a campus within walking distance. She shops on Main Street, grabs lunch out with friends, and studies for hours at a time at one of the many coffee houses, all the time surrounded by She felt very comfortable with Oxford. In fact, she expressed misgivings that it would be too comfortable since it was so much like home: same number of undergrads at 18,000; same size campus (not counting Ag College at home); similar sized downtown.

The campus

Ole Miss has an attractive campus full of mature trees and green spaces. The buildings’ ages range from the Civil War era, through the unfortunate architecture of the 1960s-1970s, to current construction. There is a lot of brick! I was surprised by how hilly it is in areas.

There are a number of fraternity and sorority houses arranged on their own streets. About 1/3 of women pledge a sorority. D has no interest in Greek life at all. Zero.

Dorms for freshmen include the traditional bathroom-down-the-hall type with small rooms and new dorms with private bathrooms for each pair of students. Those dorm rooms are the largest and nicest I have ever seen (we have not visited Bama), almost like a hotel arrangement with the bathroom inside the room door, sink and vanity area outside the bathroom, and two large closets directly opposite (doorless—students hang curtains). There is plenty of space for the beds, desks, and dressers. I can easily imagine comfortable seating added. The rooms come with large refrigerators, the type with a separate freezer compartment.

Older students can live in two residential colleges. Each consists of a four hallways of the larger private-bathroom rooms (plus lounges etc) arranged in a square surrounding an open courtyard. There are also apartment-style dorms.

Dining is a special consideration for D due to food allergies and intolerances. Our first appointment was with the head of dining for the dining hall open during summer session (there are two other all-you-care-to-eat locations). She walked us through the lines/stations, explaining to D what she could eat safely and what could be prepared separately for her, and shared that she manages dining during the academic year for a student with the same combination of needs as D. She also showed D her office and told her to stop in at any time to talk with her or her assistant. D left feeling much relieved.

In addition to the three “swipe” dining halls, there are numerous grab and go locations, two Starbucks, an Einstein Bagels in one of the engineering buildings, and a food court in the Student Union (ChickFilA, Qdoba, Subway, etc).

Academics of interest

D had arranged a meeting with the Croft Institute of International Studies. Joining us was a representative from Modern Languages who works with the Chinese Flagship Program. He was able to answer D’s questions about the Arabic Program, which is not-quite a Language Flagship Program, because the director of Arabic was busy welcoming incoming students to the program that morning.

All classrooms and offices are housed in the Croft building. It’s from the Civil War era, kind of creaky, but freshly painted with modern touches. D thought it felt and smelled like some UDel campus buildings from the same era. There’s a large covered porch where only Croft students are allowed to hang out. D says there is free coffee and tea available during the day in the kitchen (priorities!). There is one large classroom on the first floor and many small, conference-sized rooms on the other floors.

Both the Arabic and Chinese programs begin the summer before freshman year with two intensive (very intensive) summer sessions. Students are in class for four hours each day, and spend the rest of the day in study groups, mandatory no-English office hours, and doing homework. Students with prior language knowledge may test of one or both sessions. Students have dropped out of both programs already. There are currently 7 incoming Arabic students (freshmen and transfers) and 4 students joining them for the second session next month (who applied after taking non-intensive Arabic last year).

In order to major in IS at Ole Miss, a student must be admitted into the Croft Institute. About 70 students are accepted into each cohort. Students typically choose their regional concentration with associated foreign language before beginning freshman year (East Asia with Chinese, Japanese, or Korean; Europe with French, German, Italian, Russian, Portuguese, or Spanish; Latin America with Portuguese or Spanish; Middle East with Arabic). A thematic concentration mist be selected by the end of sophomore year (Global Economics and Politics; Global Health; International Governance and Politics; and Social and Cultural Identity). A 3.0 is required to continue in Croft past sophomore year.

The Croft Institute has adapted the College of Liberal Arts gen ed requirements to fit the IS major—the foreign language, history (6 cr), and social science (6 cr) courses are automatically part of the major. Remaining gen ed requirements are writing (6 cr), literature (6 cr), other humanities (3 cr), fine arts (3 cr), and natural sciences (9-11 cr).

The IS major requires 44 specific credits, including research methods and a senior thesis with defense. Study abroad for a minimum of one semester is required. Summer language acquisition is encouraged but does not count toward study abroad. Note: summer language study is required for the Chinese and Arabic programs.

Today D met a rising junior double major in Croft and Arabic plus a double minor. She told D that she usually takes 18 credits a semester and does winter and summer sessions “for fun” (definitely my dd’s kind). Croft and Arabic (or Chinese, by extension) merge very well and it is “easy” to do many programs as long as “you manage your time well.” This young woman just scored at advanced low/advanced mid levels in her ACTFL, before her real study abroad period. I can see how the Superior rating is achieved by students in the Arabic and Chinese programs.

The scholarships

–automatic merit based on ACT/SAT scores and GPA (33/1440 and 3.0+ equivalent to free is/oos tuition!)
–competitive $8K annual scholarships from Croft and from Honors
–scholarships for summer study from Arabic and Chinese programs
–NMF scholarships covering the cost of tuition and room ++
–oodles of other stackable scholarships, both automatic and competitive $1-$10K annual amounts, including $8K from the Center for Maufacturing Excellence
–Stamps Foundation full ride +

Ole Miss is now at the top of my liberal Yankee daughter’s college list, pushing out American and George Washington. We still have to visit Oklahoma (Arabic Flagship) and Ohio State.

There is one problem with Oxford. The nearest Apple store is in Memphis! D’s laptop had a major problem before we left her, so we carried it home for a Genius Bar appointment here and had it shipped directly back to her. Thank goodness for AppleCare!

QOTD: unusual majors
D used to be All Math, All the Time with a side of astronomy/geology/geography. That is, until we has the wonderful opportunity to visit China (Beijing, Xi’an, Shanghai, plus little towns) two years ago with China-native friends from the university. I could see D changing before my eyes. She asked to study AP Human Geography that year and chose Arabic when given all the options (it needed to be a language taught at UDel). Last summer she asked to study Arabic at Concordia Language Villages. She became active in MUN through the local Y.

QOTD: unaffordable schools

She will not be applying to any non-merit schools at this point—I believe the option of Harvard has been dismissed. There are 3 schools on the list that will be unaffordable without the highest levels of merit scholarships. Two of those are now at the bottom of the list.

@whereismykindle What an awesome visit report! I am so glad your Dd has found a place where she can achieve her goals, be happy, and receive so much scholarship $$. What a blessing! (Makes me sad that there is now way Dd can make it work bc Croft and the school’s strong language programs are perfect for kids like our daughters.)

D received this letter for an invitation to “national society of high school scholars”. Wondering is this some kind of spam or something real?

^I could be wrong but it sounds a little like who’s who.

I think it’s a scam.

@WhereIsMyKindle …great visit report,thanks!

QOTD: It’s a difficult question here as we can pay for college by (not without pain) depleting savings. We will probably let DD apply to two or three top, non-merit $ schools. We will also make a final decision base on what other schools’ merit scholarships (if any) she receives.

@whataboutcollege we received the same mailing from NSHSS. When I googled it most of the sentiments seemed to be that it’s a “scam” but who knows. I personally feel like I shouldn’t have to pay $$to have my student acknowledged so it got dropped into recycling.

@WhereIsMyKindle Great visit report! Thanks for sharing. I’m excited for D to visit. I think she will love it as well. We haven’t looked into Croft but it sounds like something D would also be interested in, especially the social and cultural identity concentration. I’ll tell her to look into it. She wants to do too much! lol.

@itsgettingreal17 Re QOTD Applying to non-affordable schools

My s17 will probably apply to 1 or 2 schools that are stingy in offering merit aid. BUT…he knows that those are schools he can only consider if he decides to take a ROTC scholarship and go that route so that tuition, books and fees are paid for. I have tried to be as honest as possible with him about finances. We won’t qualify for needs based aid but don’t have the money to fork over $60K per year for a name school. He knows that.

Can I just mention how tired I am of other people telling him he should be looking at “higher caliber” schools! If they want to pay for it great but so far none of them are offering!!

@canypava congrats on having a new driver to do your errands! FYI you actually can delete an entire ACT score if you want. It will permanently delete it so no one will ever see it. So if a college asks for all scores, if it’s deleted you can’t send it

@WhereIsMyKindle now that is a school visit report! Can you do that for the schools my D wants to apply to?

QOTD: Applying to unaffordable schools
You may have guessed… we’re a “donut hole” family. D will be allowed to apply wherever she wants, but she has been fully informed about what I can and can’t afford. She has a few unaffordable schools on her list. But I expect that when it gets down to actually applying, “essay fatigue” will kick in, and she will decide not to work so hard for something unattainable.

@picklesarenice Will you be visiting Reed when you are in Portland?! That’s on our list but we most likely won’t be able to visit.

No travel tips for your trip out East. We did the official tour at Smith, and since Mount Holyoke had no tours we just walked around. My DD met a girl who was very friendly and introduced her to friends and showed my DD her dorm. We went back the next day and did the full self guided tour - not the same as a tour guide for sure and a bit of a waste of time. I’m disappointed we did this as it really cemented my DDs dislike of the school. Amherst and Hampshire are very close too! We did not choose to visit them but I’m always impressed by how close things are in the northeast!

Wellesley was a fluke, we were not planning to go there since it’s a reach, but stopped by as we had time and were close. Someone in admissions stopped what they were doing and gave us the full tour. We were impressed!

QOTD: I’m running NPC on all the schools where there is interest and sharing the numbers with my DD in a Google doc. There’s such a large range and I think we are clear that some are impossible and not worth applying and been removed from further consideration. There are two schools suggested by her GC that do not have easily found NPC which to me is a red flag and that’s noted as well.

Thanks @payn4ward and @greeny8. My D had her permit for 10 months! It took her awhile to get all the practice in too. She was quite tentative to start and the Bay Area traffic did not help.

I did read about deleting ACT scores, but they also show on her transcript, although maybe it is not hard to get those removed, I don’t know. Anyway, it isn’t so bad that I think we need to do that. I am enjoying all the trip reports even though my D’s list is very specific to southern CA. My S20 may be more flexible with location, so it’s helpful to know details about so many schools!