@itsgettingreal17 Does the school explain in its school profile that students that participate in the school’s athletic programs take a hit on their class rank? If not, that practice does seem like it would penalize the top students who are also athletes.
S17 is a 5-star tennis recruit. He plans to major in math and computer science at one of the elite LACs, but he also loves to write, so I am sure he will take a lot of writing classes along the way as well. His friends don’t understand why is isn’t playing Div I, but he really liked the academic vibe at the school he chose.
APs were initially designed to function as college courses for students that can handle college-level coursework. Because of the focus on standardized testing and the tendency of many teachers to teach to the test, and because of the lack of flexibility that having to cover such a wide range of material entails, and because of the rubrics used in assessing the quality of students’ work, they have become mere caricatures of what their original function might have been.
Moreover, as “weighted” classes, students’ motivation for taking them are more often than not to get the “grade bump” and boost their GPAs, not to satisfy a true love of learning. And, given that many schools limit the number of AP credits they accept, it’s just a huge waste of time and energy that takes the joy out of learning. But people of good will can agree to disagree.
Maybe we can start by eliminating “grade bumps” and weighted GPAs and see how long the AP program lasts…
I would so much have preferred my kid (and would have loved to have had the opportunity myself!) to undertake a program such as the one that @Mom2aphysicsgeek describes. D17 follows her intellectual passions IN SPITE OF and not BECAUSE of the AP program.
Naviance was just updated at our school yesterday with new GPAs, and fortunately son17 was able to lift his overall GPA up this year. Yay. New rankings will come out in the fall. I wish they would just do away with rankings all together. They did take a parent/student survey last year about dropping ranking, but nothing has come of it yet. Hopefully it will be gone in time for my younger son19’s class. But unfortunately, class rank will still be on son17’s transcript and his ranking compared to their entire grade is just OK ( even with mostly good grades and decent rigor). I’m hoping the class rank doesn’t really matter, and the schools see a steady consistent upward trend in gpa and rigor from freshman year thru senior year.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek My hate for AP courses was not directed at you. It’s my general observation of popular CC beliefs. The other is a hate for elite schools but that’s a whole other can of worms.
Interesting. I actually perceive CC as pro-both. I haven’t seen hate for either. Different perspectives and POV, sure, but hate, no. (Actually, I don’t think I have seen much negative commentary on APs at all.) Thread selection bias! There are so many threads and forums I don’t click on.
Our school offers 20some AP courses, of which son will complete 7 by the end. The school gives no gpa bump for AP and doesn’t rank. The students in the AP classes are definitely there with the expectation to work hard, and thankfully the teaching is good. Of course the students aiming for hard admits have to take the AP courses so the transcript reflects that they are stretching themselves…and hopefully learning a lot. DS17 also has been in orchestra for all 4 years. Thankfully he’s pretty much been able to take the courses he wanted to…because he wanted to.
Finally we’ve scheduled our first one on one visit with a coach, at Buffalo. We’ve visited the campus before, and DS likes it (except the weather), and his stats are a match, so we’ll see. He went to his first all comers meet last night and won both his races so he’s happy about that.
** rankings and music **
This was an issue for my kids as well. Both DD’14 and DS’15 were involved in multiple music classes — band, chorus, select chorus, and jazz band. The only way to fit all this in was to have no study halls and sometimes no lunch. One year DD still couldn’t fit chorus and select chorus in, but the teacher asked her to take the music home and practice there so she could still sing in concerts . And it did hurt their ranking a little bit, though they did well anyway (#2 and #4). The kids above them all had fewer music classes if I remember correctly, but I think most had one, so the competition isn’t so intense that they’re all skipping music completely. The school has now added an honors music option which involves work for honors choruses and bands and the musical. I don’t know how it all works exactly but I’m happy they are doing that. Our small school is widely known for the quality of its music program and this should help keep it strong, I hope.
** Number of Schools **
Five? Maybe six? There just aren’t that many that fit DS’s and my criteria. We still need to find a couple of true safety schools, or maybe one plus our local CC.
HELP! What is going on with the ACT Writing section. DS17 is a smart boy. He is a decent writer. He felt really good about his ACT essay. His ACT composite is 34. His ACT Writing score came out with a 23. What??? I know they changed the format in September. Is there some top secret formula? He is not a “23” writer. I’ve started to look into this and I see some are saying the new scores are lower. DS17 is looking at some high level schools, and he has all the boxes checked - High GPA, high class rank, 34 ACT, EC’s with depth, national recognition - this writing score is a killer. What is going on? HELP!!
@geogirl1 …ahhh, same here! Composite 34 and writing score of 19!
Now…she DOES admit to kind of shanking it. She says she was just “done” by the time writing came along and probably did not give it a thorough shot. She had done a little too much web searching that revealed some of her schools don’t require it and the ones who do require it don’t really “consider” it for merit scholarship purposes.
With that said, I’m going to pay the $$ to have it re-scored.
The two reviewers in DS17’s case gave him consistent grades. I don’t think “rescore” would add much. I also don’t like the idea of those who pay extra get a higher score? Doesn’t sit well with me at all. I guess DS will have to retake in Sept. Bummer. We liked his 34!
Someone said it earlier, and my perception has been that UW GPA is at least as important to colleges as W GPA simply for the many different examples of how UW is computed in this thread.
I’m really glad my D17 is not on CC. I’m trying to remain happily oblivious to what I consider minutiae over which I have no control.
So, a horse walks into a bar. Bartender says: Why the long face?
@geogirl1 ehh… I don’t feel like I’m paying more to get a higher grade. More like paying to have a different set of eyes on it. At this point it’s all a stupid game and I don’t feel it is cheating or gaming the system in any way. Lots of them come back with the same score so if that happens so be it.
This is just really an odd score for him. We opted to not take the SAT this year and focus on the ACT because of all the changes and unknowns with the SAT. Maybe this was a bad choice on our part. Ugh.
Well, S checked his AP scores this morning and was quite pleased (proud mama here )!
In reflecting on his success and the ongoing discussion on this thread, I think his teachers did a great job preparing the students for the exams, but at the same time for the most part don’t think any were too rigid in terms of “teaching to the test” (in some subjects, I’m not sure that teaching to the test is a bad thing, and not sure what the alternative is for covering the curriculum - calculus seems like a good example - but S’s interest in math/calculus was really enhanced in the AP calc classes he took). Overall, S clearly learned a lot and enjoyed being challenged. I think there’s probably a lot of variability in quality of AP classes (and any classes really) that comes down to the teachers, so I am feeling grateful (once again) for the excellent teachers in our schools.
DD started high school in MN with a traditional schedule and lots of opportunities for AP or accelerated classes. They did not weight or rank. GREAT school and district and it was such a positive experience. We then moved back to NC. She now has block schedule where most APs take a block each semester, so two full credits. This is the reason many band and chorus kids have to choose between music or AP. They also rank and weight and it is a feeding frenzy. Kids can’t take as many AP courses because of the block. DD hates it. She hates the atmosphere at the school. She hates that many of the “high fliers” that would normally be friends with each other don’t talk because they are competitors for rank. This made it difficult for my DD to find “her people” when we moved here. The atmosphere at this particular school is just awful.
It’s been interesting to have this type of perspective. Thankfully DD is very social, independent, and confident. She recognizes the difference it what the schools offered and has very firm views about it.
Oh and to my point about having to choose between AP and music. We lived in NC before moving to MN. If we hadn’t moved, DD15 would have had to choose between AP and band at some point. She is an all state oboist and has a supplemental music scholarship at Bama. That never would have happened if we had stayed in NC.
The AP history classes at my son’s high school are more about memorization than about learning. Memorizing the facts and figures contained within a 15-lb textbook is the goal. Very little creativity, very little open discussion, and hours of reading and note taking at home every night. Sadly, to stay competitive, he had little choice but to take several of these classes. It’s been torture. But if this technique has better prepared him for college, then I guess it’s been worth the pain. But who knows?
It’s amazing to me how different each High School works and how we all need to make it work for our kids going through those high schools. At my son’s HS there are no weighted grades, they have been debated back and forth over the years but as of now everything is unweighted. However we do have class rankings and 1 Valedictorian and 1 Salutatorian. My son loves to do everything so most years he has opted out of having lunch (he eats in another class during the day) so that he can continue with music, ROTC and other electives. Our take on AP classes, we took them for the courses he wanted but didn’t let the availability of an AP course decide what he would take. For instance next year instead of taking APLit, ds is taking Business English because the teacher is great and he thinks the class will be interesting and useful. He’s also not taking AP Environmental because he has no interest. Instead he’s taking Marine Biology and Forensics for his Science (there are no AP or Honors options in this course). We have tried to go with the idea of only taking courses that are required or make sense for ds and only doing EC activities that are what he is interested in. I didn’t want him focusing on what looks good for admissions. Some people disagree with that choice but it was important to us to make sure HS wasn’t just about getting into college. I’m thankful it has allowed him to cultivate interest and talent so many different things. I can’t imagine how colleges compare all these kids to one another when making admission choices!
carachel2 - I think we cross posted - I don’t think you’re gaming the system and I’m sorry if I implied as much. I will have to think about our next move, but it seems like the ACT writing section is a bit wonky.
Something to keep in mind for Senior Year…several years ago when my S14 was entering senior year, the school administration suggested that we all keep in mind how much work/time goes into college apps. The consideration was that it could take up the equivalent of one class period, depending on how many apps you are juggling. The suggestion was to not overload the course load senior year. Food for thought!
