@flatkansas We don’t even have a single in-state option on dd’s list. Her safeties all rely on scholarships.
@curiositycat333 We had three big OOS public universities on our short list, as admissions and financial safeties. We felt confident D16 would get into all three, and there’d be big merit at two, good to very good merit at the third. Then we had four privates on the list, with a mix of meets full need to competitive full tuition scholarships.
I can’t emphasize enough how much the ground can shift below your feet, so stay open. From end of junior year, to end of senior year, a lot changed for our D16. The rankings of her short list, where she thought she could be happy, her intended major, where her best buddies actually ended up (vs. the talk during application season)…lots of changes.
Hopefully, everyone blooms where they are planted.
My son17 is not applying to UMass, our state flagship. At least not now. He visited and thought it was too big and he didn’t like the feel of the place.
He did like UVM and UNH though. So those are 2 safeties for him. He has 2 other local schools that he’s considering and his stats match up, and 1 school further away that he is a match for but I doubt he’ll attend.
Total 5 schools, might get rid of one and maybe replace it with something else. No super reaches. A couple of slam dunks, and a couple he is in the running for. He liked all of them. but I think the Boston schools he liked the most. He wants to go to one particular school the most, already has mind set on it. I can’t see him changing his mind, he liked everything about it. Unless he gets rejected which is entirely possible, lol. X(
@Midwest67 Your description of the how much the ground shifts under their feet is so accurate. It really is like they are standing on the beach not moving their feet while waves roll around them.
Water crashes, sand shifts, things rise to the surface, things get buried, you think they.can bend over and grab something and it washes out of reach, other things get tangled around their legs…
Unless your child is applying to a school where they know (or are pretty sure) they will be accepted into the program they want, you know that it is 100% affordable, and they want to attend, unexpected twists and turns are probably more likely than not.
Safety schools: D will likely get in everywhere she applies. All of her schools are public flagships and she is at the top of their stats. D would be happy to attend all 15 of them. She will apply to 1 in-state and it is affordable, though more than I want to pay. If she is NMF/F, several other schools will come in with a low COA. If she doesn’t make NMSF/F, 1 of the other 14 schools offers enough auto merit to come in very low and D is likely to get enough additional merit to cover full COA and one school will drop off the list. The remaining 13 offer competitive merit and we’ll see how it goes. D would happily attend the auto merit school if nothing else comes through and it came down to the in-state versus auto-merit options. I’m very thankful that my D is a super easy kid and there were 15 schools that are good matches for her interests.
Safeties: My DDs true safety is going to CC for two years and transferring to a UC. Since we are in CA, a safety would be a state school or even a lower level UC. The problem is, given my income, we could not afford for her to live on campus at a state school because we would get no financial aid. Technically she could commute to CSEB, Sac State, or Sonoma State from where we live, but she would rather do CC and transfer to a UC if it came down to no other options. She’s not even applying to any state schools. UCs would actually be more affordable because we’d get some financial aid, although it would still be a stretch to afford, but do-able (is that a word? lol). She has no interest in applying to the lower level UCs though. She’ll be applying to only two: UCLA and UCSB. Privates are the most affordable to us, at least those that meet full need, assuming we get the NCP waiver. But of course, given her choices, they are all reaches due to selectivity. She will be applying to Howard, and she has a good chance of getting a full ride due to her stats, plus they have like 48% admit rate, but their scholarships are not automatic anymore, they are competitive and first come, first serve (she will be applying EA due to that) but we cannot rely on that as an absolute safety.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek Unfortunately we do not have any in-state options for ds either and this is why I get worried about finding the right scholarship at the right school where we can afford for ds to attend. Our in-state schools would be a good option if they offered a true major in Russian. A few of them say it can happen but basically it’s a major through Eastern European cultural classes and learning the language by studying abroad. That doesn’t count in my book as a full major and multiple study abroad options may be difficult with the double major in Accounting major. I keep inquiring about the programs at other in-state options but so far I am not coming up with anything that comes close to what we have found at OOS options. This is what keeps me up at night hoping ds stats can get him a good enough merit award somewhere OOS to make it affordable.
@MSHopeful Community College could be an option for S17 as well. But he really really wants to move away. He would prefer a Cal State than staying local. I think he should also explore gap year programs.
@curiositycat333 I would select the safeties very carefully. They can end up being the only option. One hopes of course that is not the case but shifting sands for all really make very little a sure thing in my opinion.
I would select some Cal State schools but ones that he could actually be happy at. I’d agree that there is zero point in applying somewhere you absolutely know you will not attend but there needs to be somewhere, and ideally more than one, that you know you can get into at close to 100% certainty, afford and could actually be ok with. Are there any he likes?
We have a semi similar situation. Of our 6 in state schools (not including the regional campuses of the flagship or land grant) S17 only plans to apply to one. 5 of the 6 I would consider safeties and one a reach. I am ok with this only because he has identified an OOS flagship as a safety and does have one other OOS directional that is a safety (that he likes but I do not and you know which one that is). He would be happy at any of those 3 though they may not be his top choice (he doesn’t have a top choice yet) and all are financial safeties as well. I do live in fear that one we believe is a safety is really a match and by the shifting sand analogy he actually doesn’t get in. I think that’s my own paranoia (not the GC’s or our counselors) as it is our favorite out of the three but still, it makes me glad he has more than one option.
@whataboutcollege I agree with @Mom2aphysicsgeek. Matches and Safeties are not easy for anyone, or at least anyone not willing or able to be full pay at any school regardless of the price tag.
@flatKansas wrote: “…I think its hugely important to have schools your kid WANTS to attend in your safeties, but thats hard if a kid has always had one dream school…”
It’s great if everyone can follow the rule “Love Thy Safety”. On the other hand, it’s such a First World Problem. Most kids go to the nearest community college, if they go at all. Lots of kids are handed a list of the most affordable in-state option, or commutable options, and told to “pick one”. Other kids are forced to go to the most affordable option on the table, even though they were accepted at much more prestigious schools.
It’s a gift to learn to make the most of what life hands you. If I started out every major decision in my life with what I WANTED, oy, I’d be in big trouble and unhappy most of the time.
I’m not disagreeing with the heart of what you’re saying. I get it. I’m speaking as a parent of a kid who got it into her head that because she is so smart, and worked so hard in high school, she ought to be able to go to college where she wanted to go.
@whataboutcollege I completely agree with you that finding match schools (acceptance AND affordability) are hard for the super high stat kids. I am enduring a very painful (to me) process of finalizing my d17’s school list and hoping that he has a very positive experience with this process. The hardest part for me is helping him understand that certain schools are truly a reach for everyone. There are just only so many spots and if he isn’t accepted, it is not a reflection of something he did wrong. He hears me but I’m not convinced he believes me.
Of course this is not just a problem for high stat kids - it is a problem for all kids - to manage/understand expectations. How can our kids really understand affordability when they are kids? Even if we have taught them to manage money, budget, save, etc. - they have not experienced big ticket items like college and surely do not understand the financial stress/strain it can cause even for higher income families who have saved for college.
@collegecue I am right there with you. If she doesn’t make NMSF, all of her schools are going to come down to competitive scholarships. I am not sure what else we can do. There are no instate options. There are no affordable options. The only other option is that she drops pursuing Russian which I can’t even begin to fathom.
We had hoped FSU would be an affordable fit, but it isn’t. They don’t have any semester/full yr abroad options through FSU. Only summer abroad. They told her that they don’t have the dept resources to help her achieve her goals. She would have to apply for lots of competitive funding in order to even possibly go abroad.
We are really putting all our eggs into the “she has major accomplishments and awards, strong transcript, and high test scores” basket. It the bottom falls out, we will be scrambling for plan Z (last possible choice that is way down in the depths of some pit that we haven’t flipped over the rocks yet.)
I won’t feel like we have any actual plan until I know the NMSF #s.
Safeties: We think UC Santa Cruz is his safety, based on Naviance plots. They don’t seem to do yield protection. I’ve heard people think UC Davis did yield protection this year–waitlisting high stats students. It’s a lovely campus with some cool programs in fields that interest him. His ego would take a hit, but he could be happy there.
What scores to send? I have a question for the hive mind about what scores to send.
DS took 1 ACT and 2 old SATs. His ACT score is better than both SAT scores. However, the top SAT score does have an 800 in math, which is what a number of his STEM schools say they mainly look at, and the weak part is Writing, which is less looked at.
For “send all scores” schools, we will certainly do that.
For “send either all ACTs or all SATs” schools, we will probably just send the one ACT.
For “send whatever” schools, I’m thinking that maybe there is some advantage to sending the ACT and the higher SAT. Clearly colleges can figure out that he would have taken the SAT, since he is fairly sure to be NMSF in California.
Here are the scores. The lower SAT he took with a bad headache through the whole test. I’ve tried to tell him not to take high-stakes test when he is sick, but it’s bit him a couple times.
ACT 35C (36E, 36M, 34R, 34S) 25W
SAT (old) 2280 (760CR, 800M, 720W, 8 essay)
SAT (old) 2180 (730CR, 720M, 730W, 8 essay)
ACT 35 is supposed to be equivalent to 2290-2370 SAT.
What do you think? Should he send the ACT plus the 2280 SAT, since it is a 1560 CR+M and shows an extra maxed out math score? Or, just the ACT? This is mostly for reachy STEM schools.
@curiositycat333 My DD really wants to move away too, but says she would rather do CC to UC than a state school as a last ditch option. I don’t think it will happen, but if it does, we do have some good CCs nearby and she could then definitely get into to a top UC through the system they have set up for guaranteed transfers. I’m hoping it doesn’t come down to that, but I guess it’s not the worst thing in the world. LoL. She really wants to go to NY or DC. She’s only applying to 4 CA colleges (UCLA, UCSB, Stanford, and USC).
@MichiganGeorgia We have had no problems checking. Make sure you are looking in the right place, at first I could not find the app.
Another problem with safeties and my DD is that with her stats she could get close to full rides (or at least full tuition) at a ton of schools but she basically refuses to apply anywhere in the middle of the country (with a few exceptions: Tulane, UChicago, Northwestern) or the South. That really limits our safety options. She also could probably get great offers at some LACs but she wants a big, urban environment. But she knows this limits her options and still chooses this path, so she has to accept the outcome.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek: “Do you think it is OK if the translator is the one to upload it?” That, I don’t know. Does the Common App allow third-party uploads? Probably. If not, then of course no, since the recommender still is the French teacher, but if they do then it would make sense, since the translator is the one who would have handled it last, unless the original author would like to review the translation to see if intent was changed (which might be a good idea, actually).
Re: Affordability
At our local community college, there are tuition scholarships available for the Honors Program. Our D13 went to community college, and made the most of it. She worked in a restaurant during her time there and made enough money to pay for any remaining balance.
She is at UIUC now, which is expensive for an in-state option, but if we treat the cost as a four year cost instead of two, it’s affordable. She is in charge of room and board, and we cover tuition.
There are usually ways to make it work! To my thinking, one of the big benefits to going to CC first was she crossed paths with all kinds of unconventional students. She is sympathetic to people who have hurdles to clear, and she understands she has to run her own race. In her mind, there’s no shame in being on an alternative path.
I totally agree with @Mom2aphysicsgeek. When we were advised on what a true safety was, price was a huge problem. Our state schools are what we can afford, but not what my DD wants. Next are the OOS with merit. We can only truly afford them with some type of merit. Our criteria for affording may be different than others. We do not want our kids(or us) taking out any loans what so ever. Then there are the privates that will see us as full pay. We took those off the list because we didn’t want our DD to get her heart broken. My DD took them off the list because she did’;t get the right feel. She is the one that decided OOS publics were what she wanted. Her number one wasn’t even on her radar, now I don’t think it compares to anywhere in here eyes. Thank god it is are true safety in every way!
@dfbdf Good point. I have never seem the page where recommenders upload. I wonder if it is hard to navigate with a lot of directions. That is my biggest concern. Her English is getting better, but it is still very limited. (She asked Dd if she could just translate the letter. Dd had to tell her that that would be inappropriate and they needed to ask someone else. The head of the Alliance Francaise here is a French professor at the local university. They are going to ask her. But it may come down to Dd having to help her navigate the website to upload.)