@me29034 said: “One advantage of not having a top academic kid is that course selection is much more fun.” I totally agree and it’s sort of liberating to be able to help your kid pick interesting classes without trying to stay on the maximum rigor AP track. Kind of a sad commentary on our system, don’t you think?
Agreed, @Corinthian. It leads me to wonder why more families don’t consciously opt out of it, though—I mean, aside from being able to post on CC about how many AP courses you/your child is taking, what’s the payoff? I still haven’t seen any evidence that there’s a clear correlation between AP coursework and the fuzzy concept of “rigor”, really, and so I wonder how that became (along with IB) the way we think of what that term means.
@eh1234 yeah, that score distribution is brutal. I wish we hadn’t paid for S17 to take the test. I think S19 will be fine if he ends up choosing physics versus chem next year given the higher math track but it really was a waste of $84 (now $93 this year lol). Given that breakdown, and the fact that AP testing is already self selecting, we were happy he didn’t get a 1. That said, he really didn’t study for it. At all. LOL!
I do think having PreCalc first could definitely help. When S19 asked the teachers last year for advice (honors chem versus AP Physics at the same time as pre-calc) it was a resounding recommendation for him to do chem this year.
@dfbdfb at our HS, when you apply to colleges and the GC fills our her report, she’s not going to mark that you took the most rigorous courses available if you take electives like photography, culinary arts, criminology, etc (ones that my D19 thinks sound fun) instead of electives that are academic AP classes such as AP Chem, AP Bio, AP Stats, AP Psych, etc.(using examples from our school). Also, the “fun” electives are usually non-honors so if you are targeting HYPSM level schools, you basically cannot afford the hit to your class rank that will result from taking a bunch of non-honors electives. And I think that’s pretty sad.
@eandesmom Our kids have to take the AP tests if they take the class because the school pays for it. (Meanwhile the teachers have near-stagnant wages, drives me crazy).
@eh1234 same for our school.
My D16 did Calc AB and then Calc BC. She is a strong math student but not a phenomenal one. She also was far from the only student to do this although the school recommends one or the other. In her case she knew she would need a really strong math foundation for her computer science major in college. Also, since fall is always a total killer with marching band it was nice to have the first quarter be review.
And yes, we are really lucky to have Honors options instead of just AP or regular.
My son is situated in a position rank wise and GPA that he may move a little , but he will never be upper ranks, so we are not playing the AP game.
Thank you sooo much, @eandesmom , and @MA20I2 for giving me insight!
Ouch…that is some steep statistics… 
@dfbdfb, when I talked to number of students from neighboring HS, most of them mentioned that they are scared of “falling behind” in the GPA game. That idea pushes them to take up more APs, DE classes. UC admissions are significantly GPA driven. It becomes a rat race at some point of time.
As @Corinthian mentioned, our GCs fill out information regarding the course rigor of a student with respect to other students. Instead of parents coming together to lighten the load collectively, they try to take up more APs to stay at the top of the GPA game.
Our school doesn’t rank or weight so my kids take the AP’s they want, for the sake of the itself. That said, there is definitely an element of keeping up with peers or more accurately wanting to be in classes where the kids are at a relatively similar level.
I am surprised at required ap testing. That’s pressure on the school district then to show high pass rates. Nice to have it paid for though, that’s for sure.
Senior is mildly frustrating in the sense that you do not know or may not know at the time you’re paying for a test what college your child will end up at. Which means you may pay for a test that gets zero credit at the school they end up choosing. That can be an expensive gamble.
https://www.totalregistration.net/AP-Exam-Registration-Service/2016-AP-Exam-Score-Distributions.php - AP distribution for 2016. If you look at the right column it says how many kids took the exam (not all have this but many do).
Our school system pays for our AP tests as well, so the students are required to take the tests if they take the class.
@Corinthian: Right! What I’m wondering is how in the world we decided that AP/IB=most rigorous. I mean, I know that back in high school I’d’ve had a much harder time getting an A in an illustrating or wood shop class than I did in AP literature or German—so how in the world do we think that foreign languages and literature are “more rigorous” than art or shop?
That’s what I’m questioning—not what the reality currently is, but why/how in the world we made the assumptions that have led to the current reality.
Edited to fix a CC BBCode parsing issue.
I agree with many of these comments, but I do want to add that some kids need and like academic rigor. It is fair to say that rigor is a fuzzy concept. The designation of AP and IB is supposed to clarify what are rigorous courses. These courses include certain material and standards so colleges will be able to distinguish students’ achievement in turn. While it is perfectly okay for a child to take no AP courses, it should also be okay for a child to take six AP courses and/or to complete an IB diploma.
@dfbdfb, different classes and subjects are challenging for different kids. I know kids who thrive on multiple AP and IB courses. Higher level math classes might be easy for a child who would not do well in debate.
We want to make room for kids who work well at every level and subject. Let’s make sure our pendulum of approval swings through the entire spectrum on this thread and does not get stuck at one point or another.
We have tailored my son’s AP classes to areas of his strength or interests ; otherwise , he takes honors classes and is significantly challenged. My DS16 took 8 AP classes to be challenged in subjects that he was interested in. Unfortunately , we did have an experience where one of his “friends” requested a transfer from an Honors class to an AP class when he discovered that my son was taking one more AP class than he was , and he was trying desperately to move his rank. It made for a very uncomfortable and competitive school year, and that is unfortunate . There is no one right system for every child . Each child and parent should determine what’s best for their child and not feel the need to keep up with everyone else.
I agree completely, @carolinamom2boys!
Our school system doesn’t formally rank, but there’s sort of an unspoken understanding that only the top 5 to 10% of kids will truly be eligible for the two top public schools. It makes things a little less competitive, but the uncertainty might be just as bad as the competition. It’s hard to know where you stand unless you take as many APs as possible and do well in all of them. My S definitely needs some free time to space out. I admire the kids who can handle the workload though. I graduated 2nd in my high school class but we didn’t have APs at all. I did NOT have the work ethic to do a bunch of APs and think I probably would have taken maybe four or five total, haha.
If I wasn’t hoping for S19 to potentially go to one of the better in-state schools, I wouldn’t be worried at all about his course selections and would probably just have him stay focused on his GPA alone. As it is, I think he’s finally settled on AP Physics 1 and AP Psych, along with honors in PreCalc, English and history, an honors engineering class, and orchestra. I still think 6 academic classes may be too much.
IMO , it’s also important not to fall into the mindset that taking an AP class is what’s important . It’s not enough to just take the class, it’s important to do well in the class. Sometimes it’s more advantageous to GPA to take an Honors class and achieve a better grade than take an AP with a lower grade even though it’s weighted higher.
Busy time kicks in again starting this weekend for son19. He has a couple of robotics tournaments coming up, some volunteer events, club soccer season starts up, and Spring sport season begins at HS.
Just trying to keep him organized and focused until then. We select junior year classes next week, so need to figure out the AP thing.
Here’s his issue:
Son19 is very determined. He wants to play soccer in college and study engineering. He has good grades and tested decently on PSAT. I would say he is a very good student athlete. He has been in contact with 2 Ivy League coaches regarding soccer. They want him to attend their camps this summer and have spoken to his coach. He’s not being "officially"recruited ( too early for that), but there is an interest there, and the coaches have told him. So son is flattered and thinks he could possibly make it work. I think he’d be a better fit at a place like RPI where he could really focus on school work and enjoy some soccer.
So, I think he could take a couple of AP’s jr year and Sr year and get into some place like RPI. But to get considered for an Ivy I think he’d have to really step up his game and take 3-4 AP’s and I don’t think he could personally handle it with sports and robotics and other stuff.
So, we have to really think about the AP stuff. I’m leaning to fewer AP’s and just accepting what happens as a result of that, instead of chasing tip top schools with a bunch of AP’s and still having a slim chance of getting in.
It’s amazing to me to how early this whole process takes place and the importance of class selection. Crazy.
@RightCoaster maybe your GC has some experience with kids being recruited for sports by the Ivy League. I would ask him if those students took such a heavy load in order to get their offers. At our high school, we’ve got five seniors going to Ivies for different sports. I’m pretty sure some of those kids did not take 4/5 APs junior year. Don’t get me wrong, they are all VERY good students, but I think some of them didn’t have the most rigorous schedule. More likely, they had tippy top grades and a handful of APs.
@Homerdog that’s what I was thinking but our school hasn’t sent any kids to Ivy schools for sports as far as I know. This year a kid is going Stamford ( maybe?). but he is a top scholar and runs track. I’m sure he took a bazillion AP’s.
I think sticking with 1 easy AP class and another stem AP class and the rest honors would be the best way to go.
I can’t see him succeeding with 4. He’s been pretty swamped all year with all Honors classes. In our school most of the kids start taking some AP classes in their junior year. My older son waited until senior year to take a few, so I don’t have experience with junior year AP class taking. Junior year is so busy with test taking,ap classes, varsity sports, prom etc. I just don’t want to bury him.