Parents of the HS Class of 2019 (Part 1)

@carolinamom2boys, the difference between an Honors Program and an Honors College is usually, at a university (i.e., an institution with separate colleges, such as a College of Arts & Sciences, a College of Business, and so on), a matter of whether there is dedicated administrative support for honors at the dean level. (On the academic side of a university, the usual academic pecking order is provost>dean>chair>general faculty, with the former two being administrative levels and the latter two faculty levels.)

An Honors Program is (usually) not a separate college with a dean, but that doesn’t tell you anything about the level of support it receives—there are Honors Programs that are essentially shoestring operations that maybe provide a specialized first-year seminar or support for a senior thesis or such but nothing more, or they can be incredibly tricked-out programs that simply aren’t led by a dean. In fact, some Honors Programs are housed at the level of the provost, but that means they can’t (usually) be called an Honors College.

This can, of course, be muddied by a university’s Honors Program having a director who’s considered at the same administrative level as a dean, in which case you don’t have an Honors College (because there’s on Dean of Honors) but rather an Honors Program, but it’s a distinction without a difference.

Also, colleges (as opposed to universities) aren’t divided up into colleges, since that would be silly, and so they of necessity don’t have Honors Colleges, no matter what level their Honors Programs are housed at.

Also: Where in the world, @homerdog, did you get that idea of what a “true honors college experience” (whatever that might mean) is? It sounds like you’re excluding a lot of quite top-notch Honors Colleges/Programs with that restrictive of a definition—and why would a “true” honors experience have to be small, anyway, to work well? Also, since a 29 ACT is 92nd percentile, explicitly excluding ASU’s honors program for being so permissive in who they let in seems, well, weird. (Not to mention that some colleges and universities work hard to be egalitarian in ways that would exclude, e.g., honors-only dorms from happening.)

So today was our first official college visit! We saw University of Rochester. The short story is that it was a positive visit, super cold but very helpful.

For those interested in a longer version:

We went to a prospective student admissions day. I know there are plenty of people on CC who say it’s better not to go to these type of events, that they are more like cattle calls, that smaller, more personal ones are better. My opinion so far is that will really depend on the student. My d19 is an introvert and was comforted by the large number of other prospective students. It made her feel much more comfortable than she would have as the only “tourist” at college.

Parking was not on the main campus, but further away near the medical center campus. From my reading, it would be a roughly 20 minute walk to campus from there. However, they have shuttles which made it a short 5 minute ride. We were emailed and told where the parking garage was and given a code to access the garage for both coming and going, in staff parking. When we got there, I saw signs which was nice for making sure I was in the right place. They had a staff person manning the gate, pushing the button to make sure prospective students/parents had no trouble getting into the garage. We parked and caught the bus with no wait. The bus was exactly like Disney buses we’ve ridden when visiting WDW, which made d feel at home. We were dropped off within sight of the starting point of the day, a large auditorium.

Inside the auditorium was a large table set up with pastries (muffins, danishes and more), fresh fruit, hot beverages, canned juices and bottled water. There were tables with folders prepared for each student. Each folder had their names and hometowns on the front. Inside was a pen, notepad, dining ticket for the whole family, a paper listing this semesters classes that are available to have students sit in on including location and time, itinerary, a reminder of the engineering tour we were signed up for, and a couple of papers we must not have had interest in because I don’t remember what they were. The backside of the folder had a campus map. I loved that because we didn’t have to keep pulling a map out all day. We listened to the admissions presentation. Pretty standard type thing, they did try to make sure to emphasize what makes UR stand out from other places. Next we were signed up to see hear the financial aid and application presentations but d wasn’t interested, it’s probably still early for them anyway, and there was a class she was interested in sitting in on. So, we did that instead.

She chose to sit in on a large lecture hall general chemistry class. We got to the building early and did a little people watching. We happened to see the older sister of one of d’s friends walk by. We chatted with her for a few minutes and then went to school. Miraculously, the world didn’t end when I stepped into a science class! I counted and there were roughly 150 students in the class. Since it’s a Friday and the first super cold day this season, I’m betting there were some who are in the class but didn’t show up today. It was a 50 minute class and the most shocking thing to me was there were students who actually arrived up to 20 minutes into class! Maybe it’s the old lady in me, but I kept thinking “no one did that when I was in college!” The professor was very personable. I was very impressed that at the end of the class when he gave the students an opportunity to ask questions, he would respond to them by first saying their names. I was surprised that even in such a large into class, the professor would take the time to learn names. D was happy she chose a class she was familiar with because she understood the concepts (she is currently in AP chem) and it made the whole idea of college seem less overwhelming. It was a very positive experience. Definitely worth blowing off the boring presentations.

Next we went to lunch. We had a choice between 2 dining halls. I looked them up and saw menus and we picked the one that had tacos for lunch today. We are not really foodies and are not sophisticated eaters, so others may not agree with our assessment, but we really enjoyed it. There were lots of options. I tried as many as I could fit in my belly. I had fries, rice with beans and pico (I’m vegetarian so I skipped the meat and decided I didn’t want the taco shell), spinach ricotta pizza, salad, tofu with rice, ice cream, cake, and about 4 flavors of Diet Pepsi since they had sort of mini coke freestyle like machines. The only food I wouldn’t eat again was the tofu. D agreed that I do a better job with it. D had a buffalo chicken sandwich and thought it was really good. They had loads of other food. Kosher items, baked eggplant, fish, meatball subs, made to order pasta, pad Thai… probably much more I’m not thinking of. They also had many types of seating. Large booths, different size tables and also counters that surrounded some of the different prep areas. It might feel large and chaotic with many different food stations through the area, but I’m sure students get used to it quickly. I really liked that it was a place you could come and eat with a group of friends or stop by and eat by yourself if your classes don’t line up with friends and either way you can be comfortable. I say this as someone who clearly remembers a semester where I didn’t have a Tuesday/Thursday lunch that ever lined up with friends and eating alone in a crowded dining hall with only large table seating was awkward. We didn’t know how nice that variety would be until we saw it, but now we are hoping it’s something we will see at more colleges we visit.

After lunch we listened to a student panel. It was nice to hear their perspectives. They were nice and helpful. D liked hearing about the study abroad opportunities and the admissions counselor said they are especially trying to financially encourage engineering majors to study abroad.

Next we did a general tour. There were maybe 8 students who introduced themselves and let us pick who to go with. D chose an engineering major who mentioned an interest in sign language (guide thinks she will have enough credits for a minor) and d liked the sound of that combo. She did a great job. We saw study areas in one of the libraries, saw a real freshman dorm room (not a model), athletic center, student union. We then went to the engineering tour and had the same tour guide. We saw all of the engineering departments and saw many of the features. We saw some of the 3 d printed items, a couple of different projects, etc.

In the end, d felt she could see herself there. She knows that it may end up being out of our price range and says that her heart isn’t set on it either. She thinks she will be good with whatever college has her major and is in our price range and isn’t too concerned. The visit helped her to imagine herself at college in general and not feel so overwhelmed by the idea. She also thinks that architecture isn’t going to matter to her because it doesn’t look much different to her than other colleges she has briefly seen for school events (she never toured them, would only go into one building and one room so I don’t know if she saw enough to determine that). Of course, since it was windy with temps in the low 20’s and feels like temps in the low teens, we had our heads down the whole time outside and probably weren’t checking the architecture out as closely as we would in nicer weather.

So, in the end, the only negative to the day was that I ended up with chapped lips.

I’ll also stick up for ASU Barrett as a top public honors college. It’s true that it’s not small – except as compared to the rest of ASU. Barrett at the Tempe campus is about 5600 compared to about 52K overall in Tempe. And it’s not HYPSM level selective, but it is selective. It will definitely be a reach for my D19 given her current 3.6 UW GPA. Hoping for a good score on the Nov. 4 SAT to help her application. This Frank Bruni column from 2015 touts a ranking that describes Barrett as the “gold standard” for public honors colleges. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-a-prudent-college-path.html?_r=1.

Thank you everyone for explaining the honors college/programs. Its given me incentive to look into further :slight_smile:

When I was looking for honors colleges for S19, my goal was to match the selective LAC experience. Before I started exploring this option, I thought that’s what I would find. I wasn’t dissing honors colleges. I just thought the point was for the larger state universities to try to keep some of these types of kids by offering them a similar experience. In some ways, of course, the experience can be similar depending on the program. I am obviously not well versed in this subject and I was just trying to describe what I had been learning as I researched.

I think the most important thing I was looking for was small, discussion-based classes and strong advising. I suppose I was also looking for honors colleges with low admit rates. Many of the kids from our high school go to Indiana and are in the honors program. Many of them have been disappointed in the kind of students they are finding in the program. I think that’s the first thing I ever heard about any honors program, so I was searching for honors programs with the highest stat students. I always thought I would find honors programs to put on our list but I don’t think I’ve found any yet that would be a good fit. Everyone hears about ASU and I wasn’t just surprised that it was so big.

Anyway, many of you know more than I do about this subject. Thank you for posting.

It’s ok @homerdog ! We are all learning. I have one about to graduate from college and I continue to learn a ton from others on these boards! Plus I’m able to pay it forward with my students & others in RL. So it’s all good!

Thanks for the visit report @mom2twogirls . Sounds like it was a success. It will be interesting how things progress as you embark on more visits.

I’m learning a lot about honors colleges on here too. At the school I attended, the honors program students lived on the same two floors of a dorm. Not sure what else was involved. Being in PA, I have been looking at our state schools. The ones we are considering options (due to programs and distance from home) have honors programs/colleges. From what I am seeing, it is the “college within a college” model referenced here. The honors program students live in the same place, register for classes earlier, have activities just for them, and the option for more rigorous study. Each has specific eligibility requirements when it comes to GPA and test scores.

Speaking of test scores, is my S19 doomed because he will not have taken trig before having to take the SAT? This kid is literally following in my high school academic footsteps. Honors/AP English and history. Regular (school calls it “college prep”) math and science. He is taking Algebra II this year. And is doing really well in all of these classes. High Bs and As.

He wants to major in English/writing. I wasn’t stressing it because I followed the same trajectory (SAT math scores were merely adequate for me) and got into a well regarded Jesuit college on the East Coast (Majored in journalism, still working in the communications field!). CC makes me paranoid. LOL!

@InfiniteWaves Usually trig is done in the Algebra II class. Does your school do it separately? Trig at our school is just the final quarter of Algebra II/Trig (that’s what the course is called). There’s definitely a little trig on the SAT but not that much. Maybe he can learn how to do those few trig type problems on Kahn.

@InfiniteWaves I don’t think the SAT or the ACT have a lot of trig, but I feel like one has more than the other and I’m not sure which is which. My S19 is in Trig/Pre-Calc this year and took the SAT in October (so he had a few weeks of trig under his belt) and had already covered whatever was on there. There will be a lot of Algebra 2 topics.

I’m also learning about Honors Colleges, hoping the info will be useful in the future. Older D didn’t have the grades and S19 is probably too lazy to do the essays to try to get in and isn’t the type to seek out extra challenges. I don’t think they are looking for the disinterested student who accidentally gets good grades and test scores, but I’m hoping he’ll evolve a bit over the next year!

Common core moved most of trig out of algebra 2 and put it into precalc IIRC.

@mom2twogirls Hm. Our middle schools made changes for common core but it seems like our high school didn’t change anything so trig stayed in Algebra II.

I have a feeling there’s additional trig in pre-calc but I think the trig in the SAT is very beginning trig. Our S19 took pre-calc as a sophomore but he just said the trig on the SAT was from his freshman Algebra II class. Also, I honestly think it’s only 2-3 questions so if someone got all of the other questions correct, he would still have an awesome score. Even if you just dip into trig and learn the definitions of sine, cosine, and tangent, you can probably get the trig problems correct too.

I’d have the kid take a Khan Academy practice test and see where he misses questions. They have some very good video tutorials, and they give a pretty decent picture of where the weak points are. Actually it’s exceptionally good considering it’s free.

Survived our first batch of visits - UNC Chapel Hill, NCState and Duke. Good to break down what she likes and doesn’t like - big/bigger, public/private…were planning to visit Wake Forest too but she looked at majors and didn’t see any reason to visit. Now I know what she likes but finding the match is going to be tricky.

It was particularly cold in NC and poor NC State didn’t stand a chance in the cold drizzle to show well. The triple tour guide girls were not terribly good and one could tell they were trained in a script - they’d turn on personalities at a stop and then turn off as we moved to the next stop. Went to the separate engineering campus as well - which was absolutely dead. Male to female ratio around 30:1. Oh well.

UNC was lovely and town right on one side was perfect. Lots of green spaces. Would’ve been good if we had seen more tech focus but it seemed very humanities.

Duke was beautiful - it’s huge and harry potteresque. We were warned it is snobby and stressed out from friends with UNC kids but I thought it was a great info session and really nice tour with some engaging guides. If she could get in I think the $70k pricetag would kill me but besides that, it was the first place she could see herself at.

@amandakayak My D’s friend is a female engineering student at NC State and is having a great experience. She had a full-time, well-paid internship with a major company fall of junior year, is studying in Europe next summer, and I expect will have a job lined up well before graduation. But, she wasn’t faced with a choice between Duke, UNC and NC State!

My nephew is currently at Duke and loves it! He is a very quiet unpretentious laid back Cali kid :slight_smile:

Just a couple comments on honors colleges/programs.

A high school student who took only honors/AP/highest level offered classes will not necessarily need or want to be in a college honors program. College is a completely different ball game than high school.

At some schools an honors program is a great opportunity for a kid who is high stats in comparison to the rest of the student body to make sure they are surrounded by students who truly challenge them.

At other schools an honors program is mainly a marketing ploy to give students/parents bragging rights.

Someone mentioned an honors college as a great way to make a large school smaller, more personal, more like an exclusive LAC. I agree that a well run honors program can help with that but there are also other ways to accomplish that goal if you don’t get into, don’t like the honors program, or one isn’t available…

Many colleges have a variety of living/learning communities, dorms that have some sort of theme (international, eco-friendly, artistic types, social justice, outdoorsy loving, etc.). These can be a huge help to socially transitioning into college life if the fit is right.

Selective or smaller majors can also make a big difference in this regard.

So I’ve been stalking the 2018 mid-November junior year thread, and I’m once more depressed by all of the people who already knew their kids’ SAT and ACT ranges by this point in junior year. I know it just wasn’t feasible for my kid to take the tests any earlier, but I still feel like I’m running late on this. I know my kid is smart and gets good grades, but the school is not in a wealthy neighborhood and not highly regarded for anything besides arts.

3 out of 4 show weekends down. The school play is this coming weekend. We are running into emotional firestorms because none of kid’s friends has come to see the play, none at all. Of course it’s in a different part of town and many of the kids don’t have transportation, but it’s still depressing that none of them has reached out, because we would have driven them and subsidized tickets.

Kiddo is feeling very much the outsider. He designed the poster for the school play and has been involved in the costume team, but when we said we couldn’t be there for tech this weekend there were sharp words and hurt feeling.

Drama students. Bah. I’m wishing for a less emotionally volatile friend group.

@mom23travelers So helpful. Agree that there are other ways to “make school smaller” and your point about smaller majors particularly hits home. So true.

@ninakatarina If you’re running late, then so am I. S19 will take the SATs in the spring. And I am thankful for the respsonse here to my SAT math paranoia. He is in regular/college prep math. There is no point to him taking the SAT now. He should take it at the end of the year when he has completed Algebra II. Now we just to figure out exactly when. He will take the AP history test in the beginning of May. So I’d say SAT in April or June. That way, he could take it again in Aug/Sept before EA apps are due Nov 1.

My son just finished up the marching band season while also doing stage crew. This is tech week. So I hear you on the drama of drama kids too.

Mom of a 2018 here. He took the SAT in Jan and June of junior year. Our school offers a SAT prep class in the fall but alas he didn’t have a chance to do that.

There is now also an Aug test date.