I don’t see anyone “trash talking” Ivies. Certainly my comments were meant to be exactly as described by @eh1234 where I was assuring my non-Ivy caliber D19 that she will have lots of good options among selective schools. My D15 wasn’t interested in Ivies because she was attracted to LAC’s.
My kid’s current favorite, even though we haven’t visited in the flesh, is Yale. He doesn’t like it because it’s an Ivy. I put it on the list because I know it’s affordable but it is a huge reach. We saw the promo videos and looked at the specific academics and we agree that if he gets the good ACT scores, that’s going to be a top choice.
Kiddo went to visit my sister in San Fran last summer and sister took him on a tour of Stanford. He loved Stanford, too.
However kiddo has less than zero interest in Harvard or Princeton or any school with ‘tech’ in the name.
We’re not looking at Yale, and maybe Columbia or Brown, because they’re Ivies. We like them because they’re really good colleges and they have the sort of culture and personality that my kid feels he could fit in.
And as long as kiddo is interested in those school he has incentive to continue to study for the standardized testing and getting those good grades.
My kid could also do well at a LAC, we have LACs on the list. But unless the kid takes both types of standardized tests and gets dismal scores, I’m going to keep on supporting his dream that he could go to Yale.
@InfiniteWaves my parents weren’t very involved either. I went to 2 college open houses. One by myself and the other with a friend and her parents.
Hi everyone. The prestige factor creeps into our talks here and there. D has worked hard to keep up her grades over the years and if money was no object she could have a nice list of reaches. Unfortunately we are full pay and money does come into play. From my research so far D won’t really be able to apply to many reaches because they are too expensive. There are reaches that offer scholarships but then the scholarship would be such a super reach I’m not sure it is worth it to have her apply then have to say no. D understands this but once in a while both of us fall into the trap of worrying about her going to a more prestigious school.
Right now we are trying to plan a trip to see Clemson and Elon. She never had Clemson in her mind because to her it is too southern. (of course she has never been there or even to the south!) I think it would be a nice fit for her - it is bigger than the LACs we have looked at but not as huge as UF, it is not as cold as New England, everyone we know who went there loved it and she would be competitive for merit aid. She still isn’t so sure. I am trying to decide if we should go during one of their open house events or just do a regular visit. I want her to stay open to it so I don’t want to screw it up :))
@momtogkc I would recommend attending an open house "Discover Clemson " event. They have quite a few students from the NE , as well as international students . IMO, Elon seems more “southern” than Clemson, but they are 2 very different schools.
I don’t trash talk the ivies, but I’m certainly happy to trash talk the idea that they (and the equivalent LACs) are The Only Worthwhile Option.
I’m very much a non-fan of prestige-chasing. Part of this comes from being a college professor, and having an insider’s view of academia tends to get one to look for certain metrics that are different from most. (F’rex, my D17 had columns in her college choice spreadsheet that included the proportion of contingent faculty—not a number that’s easy to find for most schools!—and whether librarians have access to tenure protections.)
But then again, none of my kids are likely to go into investment banking. If they were, it’d be Penn all the way—but since they’re not looking at any of the fields where prestige of undergrad degree is a filter, there’s no need to even worry about that.
@eh1234 wrote:
“I personally hope that all your 2019 kids who decide to shoot for Ivy league schools are successful with their applications. This is not a particularly vocal contingent of parents on this thread at the moment but I hope no one feels like they can’t post about their kid’s journey through the Ivy application process…”
I admit that I fall into this category, and thus while actively reading, have not posted for fear of my kids being marked as prestige hungry, etc, etc. I know no one on this thread is to blame and apologize in advance if anyone feels that way. I came to this thread because like @homerdog I did not feel I could discuss my twins college journey with my friends or neighbors (who the heck am I going to tell that my twins got every single question right on the PSAT without coming across as a mom bragging about her kids?) But I do want to celebrate their achievements and seek support for this difficult process that we’re trying to navigate…get advice, give advice…just share. Thanks for listening all and I’ll be lurking as always.
Well, kiddo hit submit on the TASP application, a whopping 14 hours ahead of deadline. He ran about 800 words on all of the questions that had a 1500 word max, and we were cutting about 50 words from all of the 250 word max questions. The second drafts of his essays were much stronger than the first. Now that it’s done it’s probably best to forget about it because it’s a very low percent chance of getting in especially with his main essays being so short.
He’s coming along as a writer, and I can see a couple of ways we will be able to modify these for supplements once the college application season begins. Overall happy.
Seeing the discussion of “Ivy” stats is weird. No matter what your grades and scores are, no one is guaranteed acceptance at an Ivy. If you look at an acceptance thread for an Ivy, you’ll see people with 3.8+ unweighted and 35/1560 getting wait listed or rejected. I was talking to a Yale guy the other day, he was rejected at Harvard and Stanford. An Ivy is a reach for basically everyone in the world.
People have to remember that what’s perfect for you (or your kid) isn’t perfect for another person, even if they have identical stats. Even if a school is “great”, if your kid doesn’t like the vibe there, it won’t be for them.
Speaking of vibe, S19 had a little heart to heart last night and he is concerned that he won’t ever know which school is best for him. Even after acceptances roll in and he maybe does an overnight, he’s worried that he won’t know how to choose. He doesn’t think he will really know if he likes the school until after he’s actually attending. I’m trying to make a list of considerations for him so he can start thinking about what he wants. All he’s got so far is small classes with good mentoring, bright students, and not overly political. He also bristles at schools that are too hard core like Chicago and Swat and wants down to earth kids. I felt his anxiety last night. He wants our help but my husband also thinks we should let him figure things out on his own. (Husband still thinks we should tour a big state school just so S19 can see the differences and maybe still want a few of those on his list. Ugh.)
I fear this next eighteen months is going to be a very confusing time and I’m jealous of the kids who feel more ready to go and know what they want! I’m trying to find some sort of online quiz that helps him confirm what kinds of schools he would like. It doesn’t have to spit out actual schools but maybe help him see more clearly what parameters he should consider based on how he answers the questions. If anyone knows of a quiz like that, let me know!
Speaking as someone whose post might have been construed as trash-talking the Ivies, that certainly wasn’t the intent. (The prestige comment was related to the conversation that homerdog’s S19 was having with other students who didn’t think places like Carleton were presetigious enough.)
I am definitely someone who, like @dfbdfb , does not believe that they are the only option for every student. I do think that there are definitely some advantages that LACs have over Ivies, and some advantages that large state flagships have over both. There are also advantages Ivies have over the rest. Each student will (or should) weigh those advantages differently.
This is all to say that I’ve found this thread to be incredibly supportive and wouldn’t expect anyone to do anything but be supportive of individual application choices once they’ve been made.
@homerdog I don’t have a specific suggestion, but It looks like US News has a “college personality quiz,” Forbes has a “college matchmaker,” Unigo has a “college match,” etc. It does seem early to be so stressed about finding the right school - maybe remind him that some kids won’t even start testing until April or June and he has plenty of time. He can’t be constantly stressed about this until April 30 of next year - he’ll drive himself crazy! Since he’s finished testing for now, maybe he could use a break from college talk for a month or so (unless that would make it worse for your particular kid). Alternatively, maybe it would be worth making an appointment with a private college counselor who can look at his list, listen to his worries, and give him some reassurance based on past experience.
My kid is the exact opposite, says many schools will be “fine,” they all seem like “nice enough places to live,” because “it’s only four years.” He doesn’t really see the point of trying to find the best fit. I am trying to get a little more feedback out of him and get him to explore his options just a little bit. If he seemed anxious or stressed about it, I would back off for a while.
Relative to student news, booked a trip for my spouse and D19 to visit Swarthmore, Haverford, and Bryn Mawr in late March. It’s a little bit of an opportunity for the two to travel together, but it’ll be good to see what an East Coast LAC is like.
Spent some time discussing summer research opportunities w/ D19 as well. She’s looking for science-y things. I think it’ll be useful for her because she hasn’t really had a lot of application experience, nor has she necessarily had a lot of opportunity to experience rejection. I think she’d respond fairly well to not getting into something she wants to get into, but applying to a number of really competitive programs may give her that opportunity.
Oh, and I found this amusing the wake of the commentary that sprung up over the weekend, apparently she’s now kind of interested in Harvard? I’m really not all that keen on it, because I think her application time would be better spent on places she’s a better fit for in terms of educational interests and without such a low admissions rate, but… we shall see.
@eh1234 thank for your post. I agree. I think I’m going to lay low about the college talk for now. I did tell him this morning that he’s not making any decisions for another 18 months!
Honestly, there’s absolutely no reason for me to mention college for a while. We are going college visiting in late March but, until then, I’m going to only talk about it if he brings it up.
I don’t believe in personality quizzes. They are only good if they are administered by professionals. Self-diagnostic quizzes can be misleading. My D1 took the MBTI quiz on Naviance. It made her rejecting many career and college options. When she was in college she reversed 180 degrees.
I also think only a small number of kids can make a perfect college choice. Many will have some kind of regret later. Instead of worrying about the perfect choice, I think the kids should be willing to adapt to the new environment, be happy with it, and make the most out of it. Kids should be grateful that they are able to attend college.
@coolweather agreed. I did tell S19 that a perfect choice is highly unlikely and, when kids get to college, they should have realistic expectations and make the best of it!
The big problem with personality quizzes is that teens are not fully developed yet. They change. Their likes at age 16 may or may not have anything to do with their likes at age 20.
The quizzes about college lifestyle are even worse. Questions like “do you prefer a small campus or large campus” are impossible to answer without experiencing both. Your S16 may love the 1500 student college he went to, but he might have liked a 15,000 student campus even more. And neither may have anything to do with what S19 likes.
@gusmahler well you just hit the nail on the head. Who knows what a student will like until they experience it? From a parent’s point of view, though, I would selfishly like to come as close as possible to a good match. College costs so much money and I would love for him to have a great experience. I need to keep that anxiety to myself though. It’s too much to add my hopes to his plate. Best for me to make it clear that he could be happy enough at many schools.
Set up some college tours for spring break…nothing elaborate, just a couple of days but one of them is at a top 30 school, something very foreign to us. However, lately I’ve been noticing a decided turn for the “I’m not interested in anything buy myself, social media, friends EC’s” phase and homework and grades are suffering a little. Not a huge amount, but definitely enough to make me wonder if these tours are even worth it. D19 has seen some schools already, so it’s not like she has no idea what’s out there. I think I might cancel the tours and just let her decide if she really wants this or not. She has lots of dreams and lofty goals but at the moment, I think I want it more for her than she does. And at $75+ per app at some of these schools, I don’t see the point. This is her future, not mine.
OK, off my rant/soapbox…must be the weather!
@BorgityBorg Those are great East Coast LACs in a great area of Philly. Sounds like a solid itinerary.
I took S19 to visit Washington College this weekend. It’s only two hours away for us and we are very familiar with the eastern shore of MD. He really liked it. Which says something because the campus was empty as students don’t return for another week. The school is known for its English and writing program and seems to have an interesting mix of students.
So now, after many visits, the official LAC List includes Lebanon Valley, Goucher, Susquehanna, Ursinus, and Washington. Lebanon Valley is the only one that checks every single box for him (his words!). As such, it is the favorite. And we have a couple of in-state safeties. He can see himself attending all of them which makes me happy.
This list feels right. He has a 3.9 weighted GPA and 1210 PSAT (680 verbal, 530 math). And we need merit to make the LAC thing a financial possibility. I’m hoping that the test scores will come up a bit when he takes the SAT in June. He needs to finish this year of math though before he takes it.
What I’m wondering now is if it is possible to get teacher recs by the end of this year instead of waiting until fall. Is that jumping the gun?