Yup, this is the eternal dilema for kids who need merit. The schools that are willing to pay money to buy good students are not the one’s already filled with them. However, if you look at the stats, a mid-size merit school will probably have the same number of high achieving students as a small highly prestigious LAC so if finding a large number of academically similar peers is important, they can be found at merit schools in decent numbers – especially schools with honors colleges.
As others have pointed out, that means he’s pretty much normal.
One idea is to have him target larger universities with a wide range of majors—that is, in most cases, public flagships and public regional comprehensives. That way, whatever catches his interest, it’s available.
@dowzerw they are permitted to start the afternoon AP tests anytime between noon and 1pm – choosing to start at noon is unnecessary, and starting at 12:30 or 1pm would be much more reasonable, which is what we’re requesting.
I think it’s correct that they cannot leave the testing room early.
@dowzerw Okay that’s interesting, because what you’re now referring to as poor advice is identical to the counsel we’ve been getting, from various sources. So I’d planned to have D apply EA to all the schools that offer EA, which would be her 4 likely-admit schools and one match school. We could get some responses back in the late October-mid December time frame, if my understanding is correct. The thinking is this would give us a sense of what the financial baseline could be, in addition to easing the (probably needless) concern about having nowhere reasonably well-matched to go. We also have no choice in California with our public schools, where the application window is only open from Nov 1-30 and that’s it. So basically the entire state is applying somewhere EA. There’s not really much labor reduction to be achieved. My thinking was to spread it out – get the lower-stress and lower-effort apps done early, build up some stamina, then dive into the meaty ones later. How fatiguing is it to submit a likely-admit (aka “safety school”) application? Doesn’t seem like it would take a ton out of a kid, when there’s no supplementals. My D may or may not apply ED1 at a mega-reach, odds are that it will be a deny/defer, and then she’ll do the remaining batch in early January RD. But if this is a bad strategy, I’m all for hearing more. Maybe if your student is a really off-the-charts candidate, one could just roll with it and do ED and be done. For someone trying to use ED to turn a near-zero chance of admission into at least a non-invisible chance, then accompanying it with the regular course of EA applications seems prudent…?
@homerdog Also curious if they ever give merit awards to ED candidates. DH is convinced that of course they don’t and I’m naive to hope that they will. I’d love to find an example of someone who went ED to a place like a Grinnell, Occidental, Macalester and got some merit aid.
The scenario of the many households who don’t qualify for need-based aid but yet aren’t so abundantly wealthy that they can drop the $280K for one child’s education without a second thought is a pretty common scenario, I think. When you look at the tens of millions of dollars given in need-based aid at some schools, it feels like one half the students are subsidizing the education of the other half. I witnessed a Dean of Admissions being asked why the sticker price isn’t lowered so that more families can afford it and the burden on the full-pay households isn’t as steep. The answer was basically that everybody’s education is subsidized, even those at full pay. I have to tell myself over and over and over that I benefited from the financial aid system as a student so I can’t complain about it now.
@dfbdfb - Oh, I know he’s normal. I just feel like this all snuck up on us. I was a little older than he is, and I deferred admission and went abroad for a year before I started college. Still didn’t really know what I wanted to do when I got out. His Dad, on the other hand, started college on the immature side - partied Tuesday - Sunday the first 6 months at college, but then kind of straightened out, by the last semester he was studying his arse off to make sure he graduated and made Dean’s list for the first time. He got a job in consulting right out of college and has been doing very well ever since. I don’t think he ever had any interest in grad school. There was talk of an MBA at one point, but he didn’t think the benefits would outweigh the costs. S thinks he’s a lot like his Dad - he tries to be, but he’s really very much like me. I think he could be a career student. I know he’ll find his way, and I want him to wander and experience all kinds of different things. And that’s why I have a really hard time with that $280,000 price tag!
@SDCounty3Mom - I’m pretty sure you can’t apply ED at one school and EA at others. You kind of have to pick ED or EA.
@Trixy34 Actually, there are possibly some schools with different rules, but ED is the only binding decision plan. So, it is possible to apply to multiple schools EA as long as they don’t have restrictions (like only 1 private school EA).
But only 1 ED application is allowed, since you can’t be potentially bound to two schools.
Then, if rejected to an ED school, timing might allow for a second ED(2) application.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
@Trixy34 I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure you can apply rolling and non-binding EA to schools regardless of your intent to later apply ED somewhere. There are binding “SCEA” or “REA” programs at schools like Stanford, Notre Dame, Georgetown, where you apply early, the relationship isn’t binding, but you also can’t apply ED anywhere. I’m not talking about those. I hope I’m not wrong – that would change our whole game plan…
You can definitely apply EA to a bunch of schools and, at the same time, ED to one. The exceptions are the SCEA schools (HYPS), which allow no other early apps (except for certain situations involving rolling admissions, scholarships, etc), and a very few other schools with EA programs that allow EA elsewhere but don’t allow the student to apply ED elsewhere (Notre Dame, Georgetown, BC, though BC’s EA allows ED2 elsewhere).
@SDCounty3Mom, why use the one ED application on a ‘mega reach’? Though I guess it depends on what you mean by mega. But if by mega, you mean HYP, MIT, etc, I wouldn’t bother. The way I understand it, the best place to use an ED application is a school that’s (a) a stretch but not a crazy reach, and (b) one that wants to feel like they were your first choice, and not just a runner up because you couldn’t get into HYP, etc. That latter category would be highly coextensive with the schools that care most about demonstrated interest, like many of the NESCAC schools and small LACs. Looking at the difference in a school’s ED and RD admit rate will tell part of that story, though you also have to try to back recruited athletes out of the ED number, as that’s when most of them are admitted. Hard to find those numbers, but you can make some educated guesses based on how important competitive sports are at any given school and which sports the school is most competitive in.
@SDCounty3Mom - I agree with your strategy and thinking and I agree that the “poor advice” of starting with easier admits is exactly what is recommended by all the CC veterans. I can’t imagine thinking that any ivy these days is a “realistic” top choice. But yes, ED or SCEA can be good options for some.
@soxmom That’s a good question. What does HYP mean? Harvard Yale Princeton? We would use it to take advantage of D’s status as an undergrad legacy, and also of being in a second pool where she has some (small) chance of being pulled out due to a talent. We’ve spoken with the puller-outer who confirms her (small-scale) puller-outer ability. Both are just modest bumps, but I think their bump-power will be greater in the ED pool. Also since DH pretty much wants her to shop around, using up the ED card on a low-probability scenario means I can feel satisfied that we gave it our best shot at my undergrad alma mater, while DH can feel satisfied that D is shopping around.
@SDCounty3Mom, if your D is maximizing on her double Stanford legacy, then she cannot apply to other ED or EA schools, because SCEA (single-choice early action) schools, which include Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford, prohibit any other early applications (ED or EA) to private universities. SCEA restrictions do not include public schools and/or schools that have early merit deadlines (like USC and Vanderbilt, for example). Therefore, if she submits an SCEA application to Stanford, she can also apply early to public universities and to private universities to meet their merit deadline (though she still may not apply early to private institutions when applying for merit).
And yes, HYP means Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. The longer version on CC is typically HYPSM, or Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT.
I am not exactly sure what you mean by a second pool and “puller-outer,” but if you mean that she will apply EA to another school besides Stanford, she will jeopardize her Stanford application. Your high school counselor should be clear about these distinctions, but in case s/he isn’t, you should be very clear about them.
@SDCounty3Mom It sounds as though I shouldn’t have joined the conversation. I don’t quite understand the drubbing I’m getting. The experience I shared was only our own. It was long and drawn out and exhausting. There were early merit offers, successful applications to Cal schools (among others but because you mentioned Cals) and so on. It felt like such a waste to have applied to back up schools first since that meant time and effort from her, application fees from my wallet, and tying up slots that others really wanted. D had no hooks but she has done well in school so had good results with her applications. In her case, applying to her strongest reach would have made more sense. You should approach it however is best for you/your student.
@dowzerw I missed any drubbing. It’s good you joined the conversation with another perspective though. I think likely the big point of yours is that a school isn’t a real safety if the kid wouldn’t be happy to attend it. The sense of relief kids can get from an early acceptance to a rolling admission or other type is only going to be there if they actually would like to go there!
^^ I agree - a safety acceptance early is not all that advantageous unless your kid actually would like to go there.
As for ED, my D1 did ED because she had a clear first choice. It was a match school and she got in and never looked back. Because of that we look favorably on the ED process for D2, but so far she doesn’t have a clear favorite or group of favorites. Still in the confusion zone. Hoping she gains some clarity this summer. My DH and I tend to be risk averse, so ED can be good for people like us!
@dowzerw I totally disagree. I’m glad you made that comment. You gave a different perspective, one that could potentially shorten the timeline and angst tremendously.
Thanks everyone for their help with my son’s AP Physics nightmare. The counselor couldn’t have been nicer. She was appalled that he was in the situation and did her best to help him, but the truth was that there were no free classrooms and no proctors available. So he took the test in a hallway with students walking by, had no proctor, and had to move between the 3rd and 4th FRQ because the counselor who was managing his test sections went to a staff meeting. She agreed that the test could be invalidated if that’s what my son wishes. There are three clear rules that were broken, so we have plenty of standing for that. He’s wracking his brain to decide what to do. He says there’s a good chance he got the score he wants, but he messed up part of the 2 FRQs he had to do after he moved locations. He said at that point it was 4:00 pm, his lacrosse game had started and he could hear it from his chair, and his concentration was shot. Just a bad situation.
Oh, OK - regarding ED and EA, I guess I had only really looked at Princeton and Georgetown’s EA policies, and they are restrictive. Georgetown is OK with other EA applications, but not ED somewhere else. And Princeton is SCEA. You can absolutely apply EA with the intent of applying ED later.
I think the strategy that is forming in my mind is to use the earliest ED on an academic reach/financial safety. Then there is still the option for a second ED round. At the level of school S19 is looking at, I don’t think EA provides any advantage (but of course, yesterday he told me he’s thinking he might just do EA at a couple schools instead of ED - we’ll have to have a strategy meeting with his Dad once he’s toured more schools)
For us, I really don’t see any point to applying first to safeties. At least one of our safeties would be the state flagship, so whatever my son would have to do to be rejected from there at this point would probably be so drastic that it would jeopardize all his chances at college admission. Lol. I don’t want to spend this last year with him running ourselves ragged doing way more work than we need to. We’ll focus first on reaches while still shopping around for safeties and matches and then see how it all unfolds. Of course, for those schools that require an early application for merit aid, I’ll be encouraging S to get those in early.