@eastgrad. I took them too. Someone reminded me that they were called “achievement” tests years ago. But, back then nobody took 10 AP classes or the SATs more then once. You didn’t need to be a superstar to get into a top college. An average excellent kid could do it. Back then NYU was a safety school and Chicago accepted 70% of the applicants. These days, the SAT2s just seem like one burden too many.
@gallentjill, they have been called Achievement Tests, SAT Subject Tests, and SAT2s in my memory. Perhaps college adcoms agree with you, which is why they are recommended at many places where they used to be required. Of course, equity issues are involved too because lower-income kids are less likely or able to 1) know about them, 2) take an AP course that covers the material, or 3) prep for them on their own.
@EastGrad I know you’re not supporting the testing, but the general consensus appears to be that recommended = required, unless low income. That doesn’t address the general over burdening with redundant testing. Nor does it seem “holistic”. I guess, I just want to hear a better explanation from them.
On the flip side, we chose not to do SAT with writing first sitting in March. The plan was that she’d have more time to practice this summer and do the essay version in August. Unfortunately (or fortunately), now she’s pretty comfortable with that March score. That 1 school that requires the essay is officially off the list. But, I do buy the reasoning for the essay requirement I heard a while ago. Don’t know if it’s true, but was told that some schools wanted a verifiable gauge of the applicant’s writing skills. So if the essays in the application were too much better than the SAT essay, that was a flag.
The SAT essay is a controversy. Some students can score 5 on AP English Language but have an average score on the SAT essay. The college app essay is totally different than the SAT essay. A college app essay is personal reflection without time limit. A SAT essay is a speed test.
DS16 never took any SATII tests and DS19 will not either. In fact, until I discovered CC, I had never heard of them .None of the schools that my son targeted required or even recommended them, but he also wasn’t targeting selective schools. Isn’t there a limit that most schools recommend or require @EastGrad ?
@coolweather think I buy the potential relevance of comparing them because I think of my child. Unlike some of the other AP and IB parents who’ve commented about their students improved essay writing, it is still such a struggle for my D. Frankly, I think her HS Lang grade is a bit inflated, but it might just be due to how the components are weighted and the writing isn’t bringing hers down. Theoretically, she could discuss the prompts with me, and I could “help” her write terrific essays that are completely not a representation of her style or capability. Like I said, that may not be the reason some still require it, but I could see having a notarized writing sample.
My S is taking 2 subject tests as we speak. Hopefully it will be the last of his standardized testing. As for the essay, I was happy to see that Yale is dropping the essay from their requirements. I hope the few holdovers follow suit. Results on the AP Lang test, the SAT/ACT English section and his English class should be enough.
@peachActuary73 does your daughter really like that school that requires the essay? I ask because S19 had a similar issue. Didn’t write essay the first time. Thought his score was high enough. He had to take a mandatory SAT with essay at his high school seven months after his first SAT and didn’t study for it at all. Got the same Math score and just a little lower on EW. His essay score was good. So…I guess what I’m saying is that your D could sit for it again and do the essay. She may not even need to review. Also, some colleges only take SAT scores with essays (U of Ca schools) but some will superscore the essay (Brown). So, we can send Brown both scores and they will consider S19’s higher EW score on that first test. They told me that, as long as he sends a test with an essay score, he’s covered.
Count my S19 as one of the SATers. He’s taking it as I type. Hoping for a one and done. His fall PSAT was solid given that he had not learned all of the math yet. If he can stay the course and maybe raise the math up a bit, he’ll be in good shape.
Sending lots of positive vibes out today to all of our test taking 19ers!
@coolweather according to S19, the SAT esaay is exactly like one of the AP Lang essays. The AP also has multiple choice, of course, and AOs only see the total score so they don’t really know how the essay went. Plus, it seems like the curve on AP Lang is pretty generous. I read an analysis of the SAT essay and VERY few kids, something like 5% get a score of 4 on any of the three sections. 80 percent of kids get a 2 or a 3. So, that’s means getting a 7 or an 8 on any of the three criteria is outstanding. I also understand that most schools (even very selective ones) are just fine with an 18 since a score of 6/6/6 is still all 3s and could very well be in the top 10-15 percent of scorers. Anything above a 21 would maybe boost the app but 18-20 won’t hurt it.
@carolinamom2boys, I agree that many excellent schools do not require the SAT2s at all, including, for example, Clemson and the College of Charleston. 
Seems that most schools that do recommend or require SAT2s ask for 2, with a few schools asking for 3. Anyone have examples of schools asking for 1 or 4+?
It was so great to call from bed to talk to D before testing, and not have to take her myself. I’ll miss her greatly next year, but having dad out of state has clearly sped up the burn out. Taking the exam while with him → priceless on many fronts.
@homerdog a) AP Lang was a 3. b) said school is a meet need school with no merit, so mom
is biased toward moving on.
Yes, she is biased towards the school due to attending reunions. Has time to change her mind on retaking the test, but opening the SAT door again has other implications. I believe she is like 20 pts under for her one automatic full ride option, but she’s got only 10 pts movement potential on the Math side. If she decided to sit for essay, I’d need an intervention not to push for locking in UAH full ride. Meaning focusing studying on the un-fun verbal.
@homerdog Do colleges look at the overall score or individual components of the SAT essay?
@peachActuary73 Understood! All of these testing decisions are complicated for sure.
@coolweather I assume both. They are reported as x/x/x.
Apparently the middle sore (analysis) is the hardest to get a 4. Only 2 percent of kids get a four from either of the readers on that. 22% of kids get a score of 3. 42% get a 2.
For the other two sections (reading and writing), a 3 is more likely (45%), with 5% of kids getting a 4 on those sections from either scorer.
That’s the analysis part but I have no idea if schools dive that deep or care that much.
I don’t understand how the essay on either ACT or SAT isn’t invalidated by being far to subjective. How do the schools know that whoever is reading the essay is scoring it the way the school would like these things to be analyzed? From what I have seen, a lot of these standardized tests are looking for a very wooden and stilted writing style. There may be some excellent writers out there who simply don’t conform to these constraints.
@gallentjill The SAT essay is an analysis essay. The student has to analyze the rhetorical devices used by the author of the passage(s). It’s not a personal essay. While I agree that it’s somewhat subjective, the readers are looking for very specific things in the essay. Which rhetorical devices were used? Were they used effectively? What are good examples of how the author of the passage made their case? I think it helps a little that there are two readers and both scores are reported. I think most AOs would assume that a 6 is two 3’s, not a 4 and a 2. That wouldn’t make any sense. And a 7 would mean a 4 and a 3 where one of those readers thought that section of the grade was worthy of the highest score.
I do think that this essay is easier for the kids who prepped for AP Lang. S19’s class probably did 10-12 of these timed essays throughout the school year. I’m sure he would have bombed this essay without those practices. He’s a strong writer but would not have been able to analyze the passage effectively without that class.
@gallentjill I am now fully awake and realize it may not have been a college rep that referred to reading the standardized test essays. I think we heard that before taking the SSAT (college board’s private high school entrance exam). The school actually got the full essay component. I think colleges have the option to get the physical essay, too. But not sure they look at them.
I would have a lot of respect for any school that ignored the score and looked at the actual essay. I can see why a school would want a proctored reading sample. Other than that, I find them problematic.
I honestly think the essay isn’t looked at that closely. Remember how these AOs have seven minutes per app or whatever that crazy number is? How could they read through the app itself and the supplements and still have time to analyze the SAT essay? Plus, with so many schools dropping it, even the schools that want it probably don’t put much emphasis on it. It would be the one part of the app that I would be comfortable sending a more average score as long as all other stats were on the high side.