@homerdog My S19 took AP physics and D19 AP/IB chem and both took AP Bio. Advice from Mac and Amherst is not to skip freshman physicis, chem or bio. I skipped freshman chemistry way back when based on my HS work and AP and it worked out ok, but, I really should have taken it. Labs in HS aren’t that great and I struggled in lab. Also, I missed out on some key concepts. So, they’ll probably take intro classes.
@homerdog My D (engineering major) took the calc BC credit and AP chem credit (both 5’s) but did not take the physics AP exam. If I’m remembering correctly she felt like the physics AP course hadn’t been taught that well. She was pretty bored in 1st semester physics in college and had no issues with feeling like she’d missed anything by taking the credit for the other courses. She did follow the advice of trying old final exams of the courses she was skipping to make sure she was confident of the material.
D2 (Econ major, math minor, LAC) also took Calc BC and then another year of calc 3 and mv in high school as dual enrollment. She used all the credit and had no issues with moving ahead. She just finished her degree and was just a course or two shy of a math double major.
@Parentof2014grad He may pass out of MV. He has a form to fill out for Bowdoin that asks what topic he’s covered in calc including MV and he says he’s covered all of them and has always received As. He is planning on being a math major (or at least having math as one of his majors).
Bowdoin does not give credit, per se, for these math classes if the student is a math major and just moves the student up to the next class. Looks he would need eight math classes to be a major even if he skips MV. To major in math one needs nine math classes and the lowest level class to count towards that nine is MV. Bummer for those who want to be a math major and need to start at the beginning of calculus. That would mean eleven math classes to major in math since the first two semesters of calc are just prerequisites and don’t count towards the major.
My dd (engineering major) is planning to take Physics in college. She will use the calc BC credit, but unsure of using the dual enrollment credits for linear algebra and multivariable calculus.
I don’t think son19 will use AP tests to place out of anything, or skip ahead in college. But he plans to talk with his academic advisor at school to see what’s best. His thought, is if he knows the subject well, the college class should be easy for him. and as he will have a busy schedule with sports and school maybe an easier freshman year is good. I can’t argue with that thought. He wouldn’t have enough AP credits to skip a semester or year like some kids you see on CC do. It would be 1 or two classes max. I don’t think his college encourages kids in STEM to place out of the early classes anyways.
So even though son19 thought the test was difficult, he is not stressed about the result at all, because he won’t likely use the scores for anything.
@homerdog (and @RightCoaster, re easier freshman year) , my sister (much younger than me and a fairly recent graduate) skipped first year calc using her AP class (it was before I was involved in all this so I don’t know exactly what AP she took) and said afterwards she regretted it and would have benefited more from doing freshman calc. She said the colleges teach it quite differently from HS. (She was one of those kids who went in to do premed, completed the requirements then didn’t take it further, but she graduated magna cum laude from a T20 so she’s not too shabby academically… just for context.)
S19 took AP Physics C-Mechanics. He said it was much harder than he expected. He done fine on the practice exams but ran out of time on the actual exam. D16 used AP Calc AB and Calc BC to go straight to MV. That worked well for her as she was able to go straight to 2nd yr of her math major. S19 is one year ahead of D16 and took MV this year. Not sure what he’ll do. There is a special math class for freshman with Calc AB/BC+MV. I’m guessing he’ll start there. My impression is that it is a ‘intro to the math major’ + accelerated MV course.
For physics, it depends what score he gets and what he majors in. D16 is a physics major (+ math). I’ll ask her if she would have skipped the 1st physics course. Not sure she would have since it’s a 3-semester sequence. She didn’t take the AP Physics exam (senioritis) so it wasn’t an option.
@homerdog St Olaf gives credit plus you can place out of GEs (for 5s). Coming in with 5 on Calc BC really helps with the math major since you skip a full year of pre-reqs (Calc I & II). For physics, you get credit, but placement is based on departmental review. To get out of your science GE, you have to have a review of the lab content in your HS physics course.
^^. That’s what the Dean of engineering said. Advised kids not to place out of subject matters, because it might be taught differently at the university level and the kids might miss out on some important learning.
I don’t think it’s going to be “easier” to retake Calc again, but maybe he’ll understand it better the 2nd time through and can pick up some tips along the way.
@homerdog at my D’s LAC the advantage to taking AP and DE credit was moving on to more advanced coursework. For the major (and minor) there was a large percentage of coursework that had to be completed in residence at the college. D ended up needing the same number of classes, but could take more of them as upper level electives. She didn’t finish a math double major because she opted to graduate early instead.
Neither of my kids had their grades or foundation in their major suffer as a result of taking AP credit, but this may be an individual thing and may vary by college as well. One question to ask may be-does your student quickly grasp new material, and will be/she be flustered to find a piece missing or just quickly back up and review anything they missed in an earlier class? Kids that have an A in high school AP coursework and a 5 on the exam without any extraordinary measures will probably be totally fine.
S19 is taking the calc BC exam today. He’s gifted at math and sometimes even gets excited about it, but he really hasn’t put in the work in class to ensure a solid foundation for future work. He’s missed a lot of class time for music things, his grades are a roller coaster, he doesn’t always do his homework, there’s definitely gaps in his skills. And yet he may pull out a high exam score. If he scores high enough to get credit he’s taking it, but he’s a music major. If he was headed into engineering I might say retake, or maybe start with calc 2 instead of 3. It depends on the kid.
My D19 and placing out of classes (or, it depends on the field):
[ul][]She took AP physics, but opted not to take the AP test, since she’ll need to take a year of physics and that’s the one science she struggles with—so she worried (IMO rightly that placing out of first-semester physics would simply have set her up for failure in second-semester physics. She sees the AP class as useful prep for college physics, but the test would have been a waste of a hundred bucks since she wouldn’t have used the scores anyway.
[]She took AP world history, and will get credit for a gen-ed history class from the AP test. Her engineering self will gladly have to take less social science.
[]She took AP stats and got a high enough score to get credit for a gen-ed stats class at some universities, but not where she’s going. Doesn’t matter either way—she’ll still have to take a calc-based stats class for her major, and the credit she’d’ve gotten from the exam wouldn’t have given her that, no matter her score. (And she’s got to take a lot of higher math anyway, so it’s not like it would have helped on the gen-ed requirement front.)
[]First-year-composition is interesting. She’d’ve been required to take two semesters of FYC as part of her gen-ed requirements; she gets credit for the first semester from either a DE course or AP credit (she has both for that one), and the second semester from DE credit. However, the honors program requires at least one semester of honors FYC—so she’s not out of the FYC woods. However[//i] however, honors students who place out of the entire FYC sequence can use their required honors FYC course to fulfill a general humanities gen-ed requirement. So that’s good.
[]And finally, calc. She did well enough on the AP calc AB test to place out of calc I. However, after taking DE calc I after taking AP calc AB at her high school, she can’t imagine having skipped the college calc class. In fact, she kind of thinks everyone in math-heavy disciplines should do precisely what she did—take AP calc, and then college calc I. She says that getting the foundational stuff for higher math from multiple angles was helpful in ways she can already see as someone who hasn’t even taken calc II yet (which she’ll take in the fall.[/ul]
DS’s AP English scores are probably enough to let him test out of freshman composition, but I feel very strongly that everyone who has the slightest possibility of writing as part of their job in the future should take freshman composition, no matter how good a writer they already are. There are so many cool niche classes that he can choose between to satisfy the requirement. I would hate for him to lose out on taking them. I find myself reading through the course descriptions and thinking, “I wish I could take that class”.
I’m doing that with a lot of courses in the catalogue, to be honest. I thought I was happy in my career and life, but I’m finding a new urge to buy a small house near a country LAC and just spend my life auditing courses and baking cookies for my classmates.
@homerdog My S19 will use his 4 on AP Physics 1 (from last year) to get out of his Gen Ed physical science and lab science. There is no “physics sequence” in his music major. He has AP Psych credit for his behavioral science Gen Ed, and thinks he probably got a 4 on AP Gov to skip the “American experience” requirement.
He took AB Calc this morning and looked drained when he got home. He thinks he did better than the miserable score that he received on his practice test, but maybe not quite a 4, more like a “3.5.” We’ll see. He can always take an easier math if he doesn’t test out of it. If he somehow got a 4, then he never has to take math again.
He also took AP CS Principles last week and that class doesn’t appear to be useful for anything? Oh well, at least it didn’t have homework.
@ninakatarina loved your post. I have also been perusing the course catalog and daydreaming about spending my days reading interesting books, discussing ideas and writing my own papers instead of the frustrating process of trying to help my kids edit theirs. Today is cold and wet—perfect for finding a cozy spot in the library ?.
The jury is still out for my S19 who will be an engineering major. He took AP Physics C-Mech yesterday and Calc AB today. I guess we’ll see what they suggest. He has an offset from classes he has taken at the community college where I work (English 101 and a US History) which will count. I’m still trying to determine if he should press forward and take the second English (Lit) this summer.
My D will use her AP Psych to place out of Intro Psych, and take more interesting psych courses,and may use her AP Calc BC to place out of Calc requirements, and may use her AP English to place into a higher level course. She is not taking the rest if her AP tests because she cannot use the credits, and is interested in taking the college-level intro courses anyways.
Report back from son on today’s AP Calc test was that it was way easier than Physics. Next up is AP CompSci, and he thinks that one might be sort of hard. He said there is a lot math to do in your head for the multiple choice questions, and then there is some sort of written problem solving component.
My son never took any AP English classes ( not interested!), so he will most likely have to take some sort of English class in college. I’ve never looked at what he will be required to take for that.
My Pomona D was in the same position as @homerdog 's S regarding math. She had gotten a 5 on Calc BC as a junior then took MV as a senior. She went straight into Linear Algebra at Pomona without a problem, which was the recommendation of her advisor. She used the AP Psych credit to place out of a prerequisite for Behavioral Economics.
I don’t know what other colleges do, but Pomona lists the AP scores on her Pomona transcript. She had all 5’s so she sent in all of her scores although Pomona limits you to two credits. But all the scores are reflected on her transcript for some reason.
@RightCoaster While AP Calc BC is a pretty tough course, kids who take it generally find the AP exam to be fairly easy - it has one of the highest rates of 4 and 5 scores among the APs. So it’s less that AP Clac BC is easy, and more that it is easy for kids who choose to take it. Physics 1 is considered one of the most difficult APs for the kids who choose to take it - only AP English Lit has a lower percent students who are able to get a a 5.
Physics 1 may be difficult because it is Algebra based, and requires more memorization. I think that if it was Calc based, most of the Calc BC kids, like your son, would find it much easier.
Kids who take BC are pretty mathy kids. That’s why the test is high scoring. Last year, one of the BC tests was way harder then the other and the curve was different for that version. S19 has that test and thought he bombed it but got a 5. It’s a little like the SAT Math 2 in that only kids who are good at math take BC so the scores tend to be high. Also, while some schools like ours teach the BC course without kids taking AB first (making the class move as fast as the college course with AB material taught in the fall/winter and BC concepts taught just before the AP test), many schools have kids take AB one year and then BC. In that case, that BC class reviews all of AB which the kids learned the prior year and then teaches BC material.
So, the kids who take BC without AB first are capable of moving very quickly. And the BC kids who took AB the prior year at schools that allow that are also very well prepared for BC because they’ve basically had the same class for two years except for the addition of the BC material in their second year of Calc.
Just got back from Sr Awards night. DS19 will be graduating Summa Cum Laude.