<p>Hopefully, once they are in college they become wiser.</p>
<p>I’m a little confused by the people who think that the student should pay you back for a dropped class. This college doesn’t charge by the class, does it? If it charged by the class, that line of thinking would make sense to me.</p>
<p>I think a “We’ll only pay for four years, and if you can’t finish by then, you have to pay for what’s left,” stipulation is reasonable.</p>
<p>As for the grades…well, you told him he had to maintain a B average in order for you to pay. He’s doing that. You expected him to earn his own money for certain expenses, and he’s doing that. I don’t see how it’s reasonable to change the requirements on him midstream. Now, if you’re worried, <em>talking</em> to him about the usefulness of a good GPA and development of good work habits, seems entirely reasonable, and quite possibly warranted.</p>
<p>No, schools don’t charge by the credit at this level (vs something like a state school), but it is assumed that a student will carry a certain amount of credits. In the OP’s case, would he have maintained the 3.0 if he had NOT dropped the class? And just because they don’t charge by the credit, does not mean you cannot estimate the math, even in a comprehensive fee school (Tuition divided by number of classes considered a full load = price per class). The school assumes that if you take that number of classes per semester and pass them, four years later they’ll hand you a degree.</p>
<p>Certainly there are times where it might be the best choice to drop. But deciding you just don’t want to work that hard, would not be an option from our point of view. Son ended up earning a number of credits for AP classes and so he could feasibly take one semester of three classes every year and still graduate on time. However, it should not be assumed that this slight cushion makes it OK to lighten his load to give him more time to party.</p>
<p>We look at college as an opportunity and these schools usually put a lot of money into things OUTSIDE the classroom - lectures, concerts, speakers, roundtables etc. If my son is going to attend a school with these opportunities at his fingertips, it is our expectation that he will avail himself to more than going to class and partying.</p>
<p>Also, in our house I can guarantee you there is nothing “left over” at the end of four years when spending $54K a year. There’s barely enough money left at the end of the week! :)</p>
<p>OK, I’m not in the running for “Best Parent of the Year.” Here’s my advice.</p>
<p>Your kid is gaming the system. He’s figured out what he needs to do to make it work, even if just barely. He’s at a good school, rubbing elbows with other smart kids, living independently, doing his “work.” I wouldn’t be too worried. </p>
<p>Look around your own workplace. Sure, there are people getting ahead who were stand-outs academically in college. But often the top dogs got their jones by being savvy, knowing who to pal with, tweaking their people skills, figuring out how to be “efficient.” Am I right or am I right?</p>
<p>I think I would try to view it as a phase, a transition period. First time of real independence. Fantastic social opportunities and extra-curriculars. Worked hard to get to this point so is taking a much deserved breather. Is testing the waters to see what he can get away with (in terms of prof expectations, parent expectations, what it takes to succeed in college etc). In some ways its healthy experimentation (some kids overwork and never figure out they could do a lot less and still pull off the same grades but have a much more interesting and exciting school life). And healthy for you too because now you have the perfect opportunity to revisit your expectations and make it clear what you will and won’t pay for (which of course is up to you…every family is different).</p>
<p>Sorry - unlike many of the namby pamby - oh your kid is doing fine - parents, I am going to offer you a different perspective. Your child needs a hard dose of reality</p>
<p>$54,000 a year - for three classes the first semester with grades of B+, B and C+, dropping a class because he thought he would fail it and partying hard on the weekends (and likely some weekdays if you ask me) just doesn’t cut it in my book.</p>
<p>He can party hardy elsewhere a whole lot cheaper. At the rate of 3 classes a semester, he comes no where close to graduating in 4 years - so now you are looking at $275,000 - $300,000 in total cost til he graduates. That to me is unacceptable.</p>
<p>The only reason he is keeping the B average you put on him as a condition of attending is because he dropped the class he was failing.</p>
<p>Your kid is playing the system and just skating by, partying on your dime. If he was my child, I would put much stronger conditions on him and I certainly wouldn’t be happy with what my $54,000 is buying right now</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hope you weren’t including me as a namby pampy parents because these were our exact words to our son who earned a 3.08 without dropping any classes. However, as I also said, it is well known that the grades are not handed out like candy in any respect at his school and so, to expect straight A’s is indeed asking too much. My expectation in a nutshell is balance in all things.</p>
<p>It all depends what is a goal of going to college. If one has no carier goals, do not have to worry about working and is going to college to get education and socialize, then there is nothing wrong with C’s, D’s, whatever. If one is planning certain carrier, then they have to research how they can find a job / accepted to Graduate school with low GPA. In many cases, low GPA will be tremendous obstacle, that could completely destroy one’s dreams.</p>
<p>How is he able to take only 3 classes? Isn’t that 9 credits? I thought the minimum at most (if not all) schools was 12 credit hours per semester.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nope - didn’t include you. I actually thought your posts were quite on target. I agreethat at many colleges grades are earned and not handed out like candy - so expecting straight A’s is too much. But expecting a strong effort is not.</p>
<p>Many classes are now four credits.</p>
<p>How a school determines credits earned varies by school. I know son’s school is basically one credit per class, a full load is considered 4, you can take 3 and you can take 5 with permission. Daughter’s school, she takes five classes as a full load. Really, you just have to stay on track at your own school OR consider which classes will transfer if you do that. Usually if you transfer (say freshman composition course or similar) will received the number of credits offered at your transfer school.</p>
<p>Honestly the only thing that would truly bother me about OP kid is the dropped class due to lightening his load of work. Had he been doing a host of other things that were productive, even that wouldn’t have bothered me so much and again, would have chalked it up to need to find a better balance.</p>
<p>Some thoughts…
Sooner or later, your DS will need to be making decisions based on his desires/goals. Right now he has been given a condition for covered expenses: a GPA of “B”. This may not be “his” goal-but rather “your” goal. You may wish to revisit this stipulation and include a provision that he has 4 years to complete his BA.
For our DD we did not require a minimum GPA, as we did not know what the courses would be like at her college. We did ask her to finish in 4 years, and that if she was having trouble in any of her classes and needed tutoring, or just a sounding board, we were there for her. We also asked her to do her best-which may be earning a “C” or it may be an “A”. We do not see her report card-only a letter from the Dean advising she made the Dean’s list.
We also encouraged her to try things-parties-community volunteering-clubs-classes that have nothing to do with her major. Why-because we believe that is part of growing up-if we don’t get out of our comfort zone-box-we can’t see just how much we can grow. She has to live with her decisions of what those activities will constitute-just as your son does. Life is supposed to be fun-look for ways to encourage this, and he will become a person you will be proud of, for he will exceed your expectations! Our DD has.
APOL-a Mom</p>
<p>I don’t think the OP has a right to be concerned. I think it just fine for the OP to remind the son of his obligation - get done in 4 years, keep a B average. I think it is fine for the OP to prod her son to step in up in the classroom and step in down on the socializing this semester. I think it’s fine for the OP to be supportive about the son managing his way to a B average, even in light of dropping one class. Probabaly a far wiser choice in the long run than flunking one class and destroying his GPA. Yes, one can step back and be indignant about a kid who should have done better but really the situation could be far, far worse. I think it’s important to see how he manages his second semester and no I don’t consider myself namby-pamby. While I only have experience with one son, so far, in college I do know that freshman fall separates the men from the boys and the “men” get it together 2nd semester. The OP does not know which she/he has at this point.</p>
<p>I agree with Momof3 about the destroyed GPA. But I don’t think there was indignation, but that’s just semantics.</p>
<p>Also can find agreement with APOL in that we can’t be sure which grades are “good” or “good enough” because it’s not like we’re sitting in the class. His A- was in his hardest class (and a foundation for his proposed major) and the C+ was a direct result of totally misjudging the first test and not having much in the way of assessments to bring that up, which is another learning curve of college. No quizzes or little tests along the way. He had one test, one midterm, and one final paper. So in that respect, he pulled through. Like I said… everyone deserves a Mulligan. The concern I suppose is creating it as habit.</p>
<p>I like the theory of fall semester separating the men from the boys. However, at what point do you know which side of that equation your kid is leaning towards?? :)</p>
<p>I’m also “big” on stressing the 4 years is on us, anything more is on “you” with our kids. My son dropped a math class sophomore year because he realized his schedule was too heavy and he wasn’t going to be able to give the math class the time it needed and he was fearful he couldn’t even pull out a C and wanted to withdraw without anything on his transcript. Dropping it did not lower him below a full time student. He called us and told us what he was doing. Although it was only a 3 cr. hr. class and because of a couple lab classes he is only 1 credit hour ‘behind’ schedule to finish in the four years. He has already told us he plans to take a one credit hour phys ed or enrichment type class this year to “get back” to where he needs to be to graduate on time. At his school you can take 12-19 credit hours and be considered full time, it takes 15 credit hours each semester to ‘do it’ in 4 years. I’m OK with kids adjusting their credit hour loads up or down when they have a “plan.” These are the type of “adult” decisions I don’t’ want to mess with and I’m not a micromanager with the kids…but I still maintain it takes more than 1 semester to “know” how your kid is going to react/manage/balance.</p>
<p>Any learning going on for that money, for 3 classes?</p>
<p>4 classes would be 33% more learning.</p>
<p>That’s what I’d worry about, but I’m funny that way.</p>
<p>thanks for all the advice. Some of you are right on target with my son and I appreciate your previous experiences. My son has already told me that he is making up the lost credit with several extra lower credit classes spread out over the next few semesters (vocal training, classical guitar etc which he loves) He also has an AP “cushion” At his school a regular class is 4 credits. He has also told me that he cannot drop any of his second semester classes as they are required courses and /or major courses. He realizes that he will have to work harder and party less. All of this came spontaneously from him. He also knows that he is expected to graduate in 4 years. And yes, not having a specific career goal in min makes the motivation less concrete (and he is a VERY concrete male)
what is interesting and insightful is that the opposite opinions on this board are exactly the issues that I am trying to reconcile.
so we will see on what side of the fence he has landed on this semester (man or boy!)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My anxiety would concern the fact that the very smart I-can-party-hard-and-still-pass classes kids drag down the somewhat less able students that try to keep up w/their level of partying. Ask your kid if some of his party buddies are gone this semester, and then ask what role his party hard behavior might have played in their failure.</p>
<p>(not saying anyone should succumb to such peer pressure, but of course some do…)</p>
<p>^ Well I have a different perspective, maybe because I spent most of my days on campus (I’m a professor). </p>
<ol>
<li><p>It’s only first term! To be worrying about graduating GPA at this point is absurd.</p></li>
<li><p>Who knows what he’s doing with his time. It could be ‘hard partying’ but it could not be too. Most parents haven’t a clue-- its their interpretation of bits of data from far away. Many students get extremely involved in a lot that the campus has to offer. It could also be involvement in causes, clubs, athletics, events, speakers…and so on. </p></li>
<li><p>It could be the OP’s perception (or the student) that they are so smart and just have to work harder…when in fact the poor performance isn’t due to just laziness. Maybe the student was failing a class for other reasons (but can’t admit it to himself or his parents). Sometimes it takes kids awhile to get their 'college-legs".</p></li>
<li><p>TONS of learning is going on outside the classroom. Often far more than what is going on IN the classroom. I would MUCH rather my freshman be having the full campus experience than just worrying about a B average! The least likely to be hired, the least mature, are those kids with the nose in a book who have no time to do anything else. I’d rather err on the side of having a very diverse experience in college and full development of the mind and body, than simply more instrumental grinding that they did in HS to pad their resume. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>If my child was <em>only</em> getting good grades in say 4 subjects, with nothing else going on, or a limited social life, I’d be even more concerned. </p>
<p>If the primary goal is to get particular grades for particular courses for the best GPA, you should send your kids to CC for two years and save a real ton of money. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Some courses have a giant failure rate, others are walk through jokes. It very very much depends on the college, course, class, and student. To create a pre-existing goal seems unfair and unrealistic.</p></li>
<li><p>To micro-manage the course grades, you are just encouraging your child to game the system and learn even less. They’ll enroll in the easiest sections, not take challenging courses, or even quit courses when they think they will fail. THAT will be a failure of one’s educational experience. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>So basically I think its a bad course of action to be trying to control from afar something we really can’t understand: We can’t judge the degree or course choice, the students’ real ability to master college, what they are really doing with their time, how much they are ‘partying hard’. </p>
<p>While you want bang for your buck, I think it’s best to create some general guidelines-- like you’ll pay for X years of college and leave it at that. These are not highschool kids who can not be micro-managed from afar and to try to do so will just make things worse.</p>