The refugees’ situation is nebulous but it is also crystal clear that the enemies are deeply embedded within the target countries. It is totally ludicrous to think that the largest danger is coming from the outside of the four corners of Europe. The local governments have shown their ineptitude to deal with the problems for more than a decade, often under the pressure of the well-educated and well-meaning.
Democratic societies do not work very well when confronted with medieval terrorism. The refugees are victom of the latter and can only hope for the former to be accepting, tolerant, and a lot less naïve and blind than a few generations ago.
Best make it simple for some to understand - cannot vet someone with no documents and a fake name for they are on no lists of any sorts. Therefore, easy to exploit.
The way I see it, the score is 352 to 3 so far. That is one hell of a ratio, and we are on the losing end.
At some point, people with bleeding-hearts are going to figure out that a bleeding heart that thinks and acts analytically is much better than a stopped heart.
And for this argument that the terrorists win if we stop immigration for now and get our ducks in order is ignoring the basic fact that the terrorists definitely win if we stupidly admit just a few who then go on and kill many Americans.
Call me odd if you like, but for me, the lives of my fellow Americans are first and foremost over the lives of refugees of unknown origin and intent.
Part of the solution is to get the refugee community to cooperate with law enforcement and intelligence agencies to identity those among them who are possible criminals and terrorists. That only works with they are treated fairly and not demonized.
The FBI Director said in late October that the FBI has no method for screening any of the refugees unless they are already in the FBI database. So if they’ve never been identified by law enforcement before, they are completely anonymous and simply cannot be screened.
Even Schumer is now saying that a pause in admitting Syrian refugees may be appropriate.
Arab countries have refused to take in any refugees. It’s quite possible many refugees wouldn’t want to go because their freedoms would be greatly restricted and they may well be treated like the Nepalese and Filipino slaves (who thought themselves free when they arrived). The exception is Jordan.
The three countries that have 95% refugees are Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey.
It was, in fact, verified, and found to be a “copy” or a fake; the legitimate passport (and, presumably, its legitimate owner) have been located. The guy wasn’t Syrian.
None of the terrorists are linked to refugees.
It doesn’t mean they couldn’t be, but the level of knowledge required personal knowledge “on the ground” from someone who lived in Paris.
Some of the terrorists fit the profile I talked about: persuaded of their own importance as teenagers and unable to withstand school, they drop out and join a life of petty crime, from which they are rescued/befriended by a man that wins their trust and promises they’ll be recognized for what’s they’re really worth - here probably the man is considered the “brain” of the operation and is apparently still on the loose after people thought he might be in Syria.
Based on the tone, it sounded as if people were mystified by the one terrorist who had a literary bacc, something quite difficult to get (lots of literature and philosophy, two or three foreign languages…) and whom everyone thought was a regular kid.
On the other hand, one of the terrorists owned a bar and someone said he was high most of the time so when he talked of djihad they thought it was some kind of macho posturing fueld by weed and no one took him seriously.
Finally, it looks like the attacks were coordinated from outside Paris. Police are tracing phone communications.
How well has that worked in the ghettoes to stop gangs? The biggest stigma is being a snitch, and snitches get killed. In the terrorist world, snitiches get killed as well.
The prospect of being dead is a stronger deterrent to not turn someone in than any nice stuff about not being demonized.
I am not saying do not institute such a program, but still not worth the risk until one can reliably identify who is who.
So we should let in lots of people some of whom may have ISIS ties because then the other people can snitch on those we are letting in with possible ISIS ties. Yeah, that makes sense.
I don’t think most terrorists blab too much about their plans to those outside their terror cell. Even the brother of two of the Paris killers said he had no idea. Of course, he could be lying.
And even when they do, the FBI has overlooked those connections due to antiquated systems and other blunders. Major Hasson, the Ft. Hood shooter, had contacted an Al Qaeda cleric and the FBI knew about it and did nothing.
There does seem to be a confusion between the refugees who’ve basically walked into Europe – who are predominantly men (just as in the era of mass immigration into the USA, men were often the first to arrive, and brought their families over later on) – and the refugees languishing in camps in Lebanon and Turkey, etc. (largely families, including women and young children). From everything I’ve read, the refugees potentially coming to the USA are mostly the latter. I don’t see 5-year olds and their mothers as likely secret terrorists whether or not their fingerprints are on file.
Separately, an article pointing out what I’ve already been seeing discussed: the idea that “the world’s success in containing ISIS territorially actually makes the group more dangerous internationally, at least in the short term,” and that “as ISIS suffers battlefield losses, it may shift more of its energy away from the battlefield and into international terror attacks like what happened in Paris.” See http://www.vox.com/world/2015/11/16/9744490/paris-attacks-isis-losing .
There are four million registered refugees from Syria. Four million! Vast majority are young men? No, not at all. That’s just propaganda.
The majority are female (50.5%). More than a third are children under 12. Some 28.7% are males between the ages of 12 and 59-- hardly the vast majority, even if you call 12-year-old boys and 59-year-old grandfathers “young men of military age.”
Here’s an easy way to be picky, given that we’re planning to pick just 10,000 winners from four million refugees: take young mothers and their kids under twelve. We’d still have hundreds of thousands of potential refugees to pick from. Maybe granddad and grandma can come along too.
zoosermom, We should distinguish between Syrian refugees who have made it to Western Europe, and the millions of Syrian refugees who haven’t. I thought the US was proposing to, and has been, taking refugee out of refugee camps.
“At some point, people with bleeding-hearts are going to figure out that a bleeding heart that thinks and acts analytically is much better than a stopped heart”
Hearts aside – bleeding or otherwise – you think that saying, “don’t send any refugees to my country” is thinking ANALYTICALLY? That it will make those pesky terrorists leave us alone?
Gulf nations argue that accepting large numbers of Syrian refugees is a serious threat to the safety of its citizens because terrorists could hide themselves among civilians.
My country has taken in nearly a hundred and twenty thousand Syrian refugee since 2011. No visas. No entrance barriers. Mind you, I live in a third world country, but until now I have yet to see a report that acknowledges our role in helping the Syrians. Oh, and Jordan has closed its gates to the refugees. I spoke to a father last week who was barred from entering and seeing his wife and kids (who had made it inside). It was sad. Oh, and @awntcdb it’s easy to be “rational” when the crisis is happening to someone else. If this had happened to Americans (unlikely, but humor me), I really doubt you’ll look kindly to any country that bans you from seeking refuge within its borders.
^^ I think, strategically it’s not terribly smart, either.
Europe and the US must fight this fight together – we need each other. Refusing to help Europe deal with the enormous burden that is this mass migration is hardly a way to treat your ally-at-war. If we want their support in fighting terrorism, we need to offer ours when they request it.
Turning our backs on Syrian refugees is turning our backs on Europe.