<p>Courts making things up? Preposterous!! They merely discover things in the Constitution that were hidden for hundreds of years from everyone else, including those who wrote it.</p>
<p>I suppose if the existence of former homosexuals doesn’t square with your beliefs it’s more convenient to imagine that they don’t exist, hence the name of this documentary.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.drthrockmorton.com/idoexist.asp[/url]”>http://www.drthrockmorton.com/idoexist.asp</a></p>
<p>Alwaysamom,</p>
<p>I’m delighted to learn that civilization hasn’t crumbled in Canada because of gay marriage. However, I’m not sure that’s a powerful endorsement for same-sex marriage. It’s a bit like saying “Buy Brand X detergent - it doesn’t ruin your clothes.”</p>
<p>As for homosexuality, that’s not really my area of interest. It does seem strange to me that no one has mentioned the role of choice in homosexual behavior. Whether or not homosexuality is inborn or learned, every person has the choice to act on it or not. Many people abstain from sex for a variety of reasons - priests who take a vow of celebacy, spouses who do not believe in birth control, married persons where one spouse is mentally or physicially incapacitated, and single people who abstain for religious or moral reasons.</p>
<p>It is not unthinkable that a person can be homosexual but nonetheless decide for religious or philosophical reasons to refrain from participating in homosexual acts. I am not suggesting that we enforce abstinence on homosexuals, but neither should we condemn those who view it as an option.</p>
<p>EDIT: It may sound comforting to ask “Why would anyone chose homosexuality?” but the reality is people make self-destructive choices every day. I do not view homosexuality as a self-destructive choice. However, the fact that homosexuals face problems in society does not support the conclusion that no one would chose that lifestyle. The same could be said about drinking or doing drugs but people chose to do that every day.</p>
<p>Sorry, folks, but I’m through discussing this issue with you. Tomorrow is Canadian Thanksgiving and one of the many things I’m thankful for in my life is that I’m not filled with the kind of bigotry and hateful thoughts that many in this thread have made all too evident.</p>
<p>Hahaha thats the only thing people on this board know how to do. When they can’t respond to rational, logical arguments they respond with ur a racist, or u hate gays, or ur a bigot. Yet they cannot EVEN explain why you are racist bigot gay basher etc</p>
<p>alwaysamom - some of us are with you. None of us are so perfect that we can know who else is not.</p>
<p>Wasn’t there some brouhaha recently about two of the leaders of an “ex-gay” organization “relasping” and leaving their wives for each other? Does anybody know anything about this?</p>
<p>alwaysamom: Thank you for proving my point: refusing to agree with gay activists that there is a definitive study out there that proves people are born gay (even though I believe they probably are), being against gay marriage, and being for HONEST sex ed and aids statistics education in the schools are “bigotry and hateful thoughts.” If you are including me in that category, you might as well include yourself in it.</p>
<p>Hereshoping: why do you object to gay marriage? If the promiscuity of gay men spreads AIDS (which I believe is what you said elsewhere), why wouldn’t you want to encourage gay men to form longstanding legal partnerships? Or do you believe that they should be encouraged toward abstinence?</p>
<p>dadguy you may be thinking of Exodus international-
[ex-gay?](<a href=“Ex-gay movement - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-gay</a>)</p>
<p>There is no <em>definitive</em> research which proves that people are born gay.</p>
<p>This is true
however I have read studies that indicate that “some” people are born gay- just as “some” people are born heterosexual</p>
<p>I think most people are on a spectrum of sexuality ( not counting the ones who I consider deviant- that mix up sexuality with control-power rather than attraction and love), and who they are attracted to, may not depend on the type of chromosomes.</p>
<p>Ah, despite explicit condemnation in the New Testament, some folks just seem to be born to be bankers. What can you do? - God, in Her infinite wisdom, just seems to have made them this way. If he is gay, Denny Hastert probably can’t help it either.</p>
<p>I DO NOT CARE if people are born gay, which I think they probably are. I object to people objecting to the insertion of “probably” into that sentence, that is all.</p>
<p>I do not want to argue about gay marriage, when 80% of the public is against it along with me.</p>
<p>I do not condone beating up gay people. I am all for their having civil rights such as hospital visitation for their partners for example. I think they have every right to express their love for another human being, as long as said human beings are over 18 years of age. I simply think people are fooling themselves (or being deliberately fooled) if they think that legalizing gay marriage will not change the fabric of our society (see Stanley Kurtz). </p>
<p>Finally, I really object to anyone who opposes gay marriage being equated with a “gay basher.” Go to any gay rights or gay activist website, Human Rights Campaign, GLESEN, LAMBDA, etc. and that is exactly what they are working very hard to convey.</p>
<p>80% of the public being against gay marriage is the highest statistic I have ever seen- do you have a source?</p>
<p>( a little perspective-
in 1948-90% of Americans were against interracial marriage when the CA Supreme court legalized it
In 1967 -72% of Americans opposed interracial marriage when the US Supreme Court legalized it
In 1991 those opposed to interracial marriage became a minority for the first time)</p>
<p>Of the studies I have seen 6 out of 10 americans feel that homosexual unions should be legal, but they are divided on whether those civil unions should come with the same rights as heterosexual married couples</p>
<p>change the fabric of our society…K…what “fabric of our society” to which you are referring</p>
<p>high divorce rates
porn (big in red states, btw)
rape
date rape
adultary
child abuse
spousal abuse</p>
<p>and all of the abuse are commited, by gasp, hetrosexuals</p>
<p>so what fabric of society are you concerned with- loving people making a vow to be true to each other and have legal obligations to each other? </p>
<p>and that somehow that is going to cause, say more divorces or what</p>
<p>coming from a city that had gay marriage, working in city hall and seeing those ceremonies- from grandmas, to young men, to middle age couples…it was truely heartwarming</p>
<p>to deny people that option is so sad…and to think that somehow our country will decline because of gay marriage…well, HH, tell me how if a marriage and relationship of two straights can in any way be affected by two gay people down the street getting married</p>
<p>Hereshoping, you say: “I simply think people are fooling themselves (or being deliberately fooled) if they think that legalizing gay marriage will not change the fabric of our society.”</p>
<p>Of course I hope that legalizing gay marriage WILL change the fabric of our society! I am hoping that people will find out that gay men and women love each other and create loving relationships that last. I’m hoping that those who do beat up gay men and women will realize that they are just as hateful as those who beat up black men and women in the 60s. I am hoping to weave in more generous threads and fibers that will help people to see that adding to the love in the world is better than taking away from it.</p>
<p>Well you guys are just grand, let me tell ya! Give yourselves a big pat on the back and sleep well! </p>
<p><behind the=“” seemingly=“” unanimous=“” support=“” for=“” same-sex=“” marriage=“” in=“” gay=“” community=“” lies=“” (at=“” least)=“” a=“” three=“” way=“” split.=“” “conservative”=“” gays=“” say=“” they=“” favor=“” because=“” admire=“” bourgeois=“” institution.=“” radical=“” reject=“” as=“” an=“” outdated=“” and=“” oppressive=“” patriarchal=“” relic.=“” these=“” radicals=“” gesture=“” of=“” public=“” approval=“” homosexuality,=“” yet=“” oppose=“” idea=“” getting=“” married.=“” then=“” there=“” are=“” who=“” agree=“” that=“” is=“” oppressive,=“” but=“” see=“” chance=“” to=“” radicalize=“” institution=“” from=“” with=“” by=“” using=“” sexually=“” open=“” unions=“” break=“” link=“” between=“” momogamy.=“”></behind></p>
<p>If you think the idea of polyamory is just a bigot’s paranoia, dream on. At UPenn the Human Sexuality Department includes professors who have signed on, not just to the idea of gay “marriage,” but to legalized polyamory. This idea also appeals to radical feminists.</p>
<p>I do wish you’d read some of Stanley Kurtz’ articles before you reject his ideas out-of-hand. Of COURSE he is not beloved by the liberal media or by gay activists.</p>
<p>Please don’t address me on this topic again. I don’t have time to do this! Thanks!</p>
<p>I agree with the below comments.</p>
<p>"Of course I hope that legalizing gay marriage WILL change the fabric of our society! I am hoping that people will find out that gay men and women love each other and create loving relationships that last. I’m hoping that those who do beat up gay men and women will realize that they are just as hateful as those who beat up black men and women in the 60s. I am hoping to weave in more generous threads and fibers that will help people to see that adding to the love in the world is better than taking away from it.?</p>
<p>EK-80% of the public being against gay marriage is the highest statistic I have ever seen- do you have a source?</p>
<p>HH-Please don’t address me on this topic again. I don’t have time to do this! Thanks!</p>
<p>So…no source?</p>
<p>[same sex marriage in United States](<a href=“Same-sex marriage in the United States - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States</a>)</p>
<p>yes, gays have a division on marriage, gee, just like a lot of straight people do…we have your serial brides and grooms, we have your cheating spouses, we have some that spend more time planning the wedding than the actual marriage, we have people that never marry but have been together forever, we have people that divorce but still see each other, you have those that absoulutey have to marry in a church in front of God, you have those that have to wed on the beach, you have those with “open” marriages, you have people get married because someone is pregnant, you have people get married because it is the only way to get out of the house, you have people getting married because its the only way they think they can have sex, you have people getting married of insurance, you have people getting married for green cards, you have people getting married for love, you have marriage for financial reasons, you have marriage for appearances</p>
<p>what is the “standard” belief on marriage?</p>
<p>For you, EK: This is the quickest one I could find, though I am sure there are better sources, I do not have the time to dig them up:</p>
<p><most oppose=“” same-sex=“” unions=“”></most></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/28/opinion/polls/main620258.shtml[/url]”>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/28/opinion/polls/main620258.shtml</a></p>