<p>Ron Paul placed 2nd at the value voters conference. His message of Constitutional government, states rights, and a humble foreign policy resonates with social conservatives. Being an ob/gyn who’s delivered 4000+ babies and has been unwavering in his opposition to abortion also helps when he’s up against liars who just recently changed their mind on abortion to impress the religious right.</p>
<p>ya he placed second and the top 4 candidates weren’t there haha</p>
<p>Btw, ZM, as Robertson believes that 9/11 was a message from God to America because of gays and abortions, I don’t think that’s going to play well with Rudy’s alleged moderation.</p>
<p>Btw, here’s a nice composite snapshot of several bits of data compiled into one concise read: </p>
<p>[Swing</a> State Project:: House 2008: Blue Wave in House? - Current Conditions](<a href=“http://www.swingstateproject.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1033]Swing”>http://www.swingstateproject.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1033)</p>
<p>LD, if you think that the Democratic candidates are trying to emulate Bush, you’re watching the wrong campaign.</p>
<p>===</p>
<p>Vote for Hillary or I’ll post a video of myself dancing naked on CC.
Or something like that.</p>
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<p>I wish Ron Paul great success. In fact, I hope that when he doesn’t get the GOP nomination he accepts a spot atop the Libertarian ticket.</p>
<p>"“New Yorkers already know–Rudy Giuliani is not only a president, but a king.”</p>
<p>The New York firefighters association doesn’t seem to think so."</p>
<p>This is a myth. (Says my hubby’ cousin, lieutenant, and other cousin, union delegate)</p>
<p>“Btw, ZM, as Robertson believes that 9/11 was a message from God to America because of gays and abortions, I don’t think that’s going to play well with Rudy’s alleged moderation”</p>
<p>I think you underestimate the loathing of HIllary in al quarters of republicanland.</p>
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<p>UriA702, since you are a Guiliani supporter and you were in NYC, can you tell me how it is that Guiliani knew the buildings were going to collapse when no one else did?</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - 9/11 WTC Giuliani was warned](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hNmf76GUCw]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hNmf76GUCw)</p>
<p>[9-11</a> Research: Giuliani Warned](<a href=“http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/giuliani.html]9-11”>9-11 Research: Giuliani Warned)</p>
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<p>haha, joke’s on you:</p>
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<p>^from [Ron</a> Paul has mandate for equal time during Fox News debate](<a href=“http://www.usadaily.com/article.cfm?articleID=128737]Ron”>http://www.usadaily.com/article.cfm?articleID=128737)</p>
<p>Ron Paul Breaks GOP Fundraising Record</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - Ron Paul Breaks GOP Fundraising Record](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS3x-WjvP2c]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS3x-WjvP2c)</p>
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<p>How so? Who among them is different, and in what way? (except for Ron Paul, of course.)</p>
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<p>I have, and I am, if Ron Paul gets the nomination. </p>
<p>Are you saying the bush has somehow improved national security? What do you base that on?</p>
<p>The Dad has made several critical points that people aren’t paying enough attention to. </p>
<p>And that is the Guiliani is SURROUNDED by the same thug neocons that once surrounded Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Wolfowitz. Really scary stuff.</p>
<p>Norman Podhoretz, Michael Rubin, Martin Kramer, Charles Hill,. Stephen Rosen. Daniel Pipes…the list goes on. All are hawkish in the extreme. The real “Bring it on” idiots, they can swagger with the big boys like W. They make Bush in his codpiece stuffed flight suit look like a girl.</p>
<p>If you’re enjoying the Bush administration you’ll just LOVE a Guiliani tenure.</p>
<p>So go ahead and get distracted by the Pat Robertson hypocrites, but they are obsolete and irrelevant at this point.</p>
<p>Hillary is as much of a neo-con as Bush or Giuliani. She wants to leave permanent bases in iraq, keep combat troops there till 2013, and she voted for the Lieberman Bill that would basically authorize Bush to invade Iran. And she’s married to the man who bombed Bosnia for no good reason.</p>
<p>weenie & vyse, I agree with both of you!</p>
<p>Democrat or Republican: Does it really matter?</p>
<p>CFR / NAU & 2008 Presidential Candidates</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - CFR / NAU & 2008 Presidential Candidates](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo5CZvD3-QM]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo5CZvD3-QM)</p>
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<p>If RP doesn’t get the nomination, and doesn’t run as an Independent, then I’ll vote Democrat over Giuliani. Hillary or Obama is the lesser of the evils, but it’s questionable as to how much lesser they are.</p>
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<p>leal, I don’t want to fully get into this debate with you, but 2 things:</p>
<p>1) You make that sound so, so much more sinister than it is. Giuliani was told by someone that the buildings were going to collapse, 10 MINUTES beforehand? Clearly, evidence that he was complicit in a massive conspiracy!</p>
<p>Not.</p>
<p>2) You’re assuming that this was all communicated perfectly. Ever heard of broken telephone? Somebody says “I think the towers might come down” in the chaos of a crowded, loud and busy room, Giuliani hears “the towers are coming down”, says as much to a couple of people, and conspiracy theorists have sound bites to live off of for years.</p>
<p>Even assuming the worst, that the guy who told Giuliani the towers were coming down was in on a conspiracy, how does that reflect badly on Giuliani? Unless of course you’re saying that Giuliani was in on it and just made up someone telling him, in which case you’re just randomly saying stuff, since there is absolutely no evidence of that.</p>
<p>“UriA702, since you are a Guiliani supporter and you were in NYC, can you tell me how it is that Guiliani knew the buildings were going to collapse when no one else did?”</p>
<p>Many people knew in those last minutes that collapse was likley imminent. I can remember very clearly conversations with people as to how the collapse would occur because that part wasn’t clear.</p>
<p>“Btw, ZM, as Robertson believes that 9/11 was a message from God to America because of gays and abortions, I don’t think that’s going to play well with Rudy’s alleged moderation”
That’s a bit of an exaggeration, you are attempting to make it seem like this was all an elaborate scheme. Giuliani knew how far in advance? 10 minutes judging by the opinions of a few experts?
With all the panic I’m pretty sure grabbing a loudspeaker announcing “everybody, stop everything you’re doing the buildings are coming down” would not have been possible. Rudy handled 9/11 very professional, and if it weren’t for Rudy, more lives would have been lost.
You may be watching too many Michael Moore movies. Any tragedy will have it’s exaggerations, and it’s propaganda. </p>
<p>Republican activists have expressed reservations about whether Giuliani is truly one of them on issues such as abortion, gun control and gay rights, but they have never doubted his extraordinary standing as “America’s mayor” on 9/11. </p>
<p>Several American news organisations are preparing expos</p>
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Actually, I don’t. Underestimating your opposition is a bad habit to pick up. What I think you are not aware of and not catching is the decline in Republican I.D., the Democratic relative gain in I.D., the significant swing of independents against Republicans, and the appeal that Hillary is demonstrating with women who have been voting Republican.</p>
<p>If the major opposition to Hillary is centered in the fulminating Republicans, Hillary will roll to victory leaving them grease spots in the road.</p>
<p>Uri, actually Giulani is just the next in line of posturing authoritarian jingoistic thugs. He presumes all sorts of experience and expertise from being mayor during 9/11 that don’t hold up to examination and his input on the emergency control center–designed to accommodate his extramarital trysts as much as anything else–is somewhere between horrific and criminal. </p>
<p>The one aspect of Rudy getting the nomination is watching the Republican hypocrisy regarding his extramarital relations juxtaposed against Bill Clinton’s. I can’t wait to get my claws into them.</p>
<p>“What I think you are not aware of and not catching is the decline in Republican I.D., the Democratic relative gain in I.D., the significant swing of independents against Republicans, and the appeal that Hillary is demonstrating with women who have been voting Republican.”</p>
<p>I am very well aware of those numbers and I’m also aware of the numbers of men who would never vote for HIllary AND the number of married women who fell the same way. That said, I’ve been calling the race for Hillary for over a year.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t call it for HC yet.
[Townhall.com::America’s</a> Mayor Is on a Roll::By Lawrence Kudlow](<a href=“http://www.townhall.com/columnists/LawrenceKudlow/2007/11/09/americas_mayor_is_on_a_roll]Townhall.com::America’s”>http://www.townhall.com/columnists/LawrenceKudlow/2007/11/09/americas_mayor_is_on_a_roll)
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<p>Sjmom, I wish there was a candidate on the republican side that I could really feel good about, but there isn’t. Bummmmmmer.</p>
<p>zoozermom, you are correct about RG taking votes from Democrats and independents as a result of his pro-choice and gay rights leanings. I think that is why he is essentially in a deadheat with HC in the most recent poll.</p>
<p>In fact if the Democrats increase their majorities in the House and Senate, a RG presidency may not be too bad. RG is probably moderate enough to get sensible middle of the road legislation throught the Congress. </p>
<p>It is just that pesky war in Iraq that could linger on for another ?? years with no good resolution.</p>
<p>Originalook, thank you for the thoughtful post. Very interesting. I agree with you in principle, but I wish I could get passionate about a candidate. Although Rudy shouldn’t count chickens yet, because Romney is polling pretty well. Did you read the NY TImes article yesterday(?) about Al Qaeda being out of Baghdad? Good news. Perhaps there will be some real progress in Iraq.</p>
<p>Me and my Dad were talking about this the other day. One possible reason for this was that Robertson was not invited to the conference for values voters. At that conference, Romney was selected as the value voter candidate. Maybe Robertson is getting back at them. Also, Robertson cares a lot about Israel, and there is nothing better than a good old and there is nothing better for that than the neo-con Giuliani</p>
<p>Whew! Read all these posts.</p>
<p>I saw Pat R on TV last night. He had not grown horns or been struck by lightening.</p>
<p>I wonder if this is the beginning of America moving to the middle? Republican leaderhip forwarding conservative fiscal positions [I’m not arguing this **is** happening, just that it might], but understanding that intervention into reproductive heath, sexual persuasion and rights issues is for the states, within constitutional limits, not the federal government.</p>
<p>That kind of national leadership (Rep, Dem or Indep) would allow “we the people” to decide what needs to be done locally. Laws will not be able to force someone who is against marriage between people of the same sex to marry someone of their sex. Similarly, it will not require a woman who is against abortion to have an abortion. So each citizen’s exercise of his or her moral principles is preserved. And, if the local “values” aren’t to your liking, but you don’t have the political clout to change them, you exercise your constitutional right to travel to another town or state.</p>
<p>I’d like to say: Pat R, thanks. You done good whether as a matter of political expediency or new found appreciation of the vast majority of citizens’ desire to turn away from the intolerance of the political extremes (both ends).</p>