You got it exactly right in terms of a typical student’s decision tree. Although some who enter BigLaw go to the Dark Side. I joined a BigLaw firm with the noble intention of working for “The Man” so I could change things for the better. Seeing more than 50% of my gross go to income taxes (fed and state) changed my thinking from Gov is the solution to Gov is the problem, lol.
1 Like
Is there much differentiation (pecking order) among the T-14 law schools? I assume there is a tiny bit, but I suppose my question is really “what jobs really care about those small distinctions?” and “does that small distinction only matter in your first job out of the T-14, after which no one cares anymore?”
Yes, there are levels within the T14 – generally, Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Chicago are the top tier (regardless of US News rankings). Being a well-qualified student from those top schools can help with the most competitive public interest positions, law firm jobs (like Wachtell), and federal clerkships. That doesn’t mean a student from other law schools has zero chance at those “elite” outcomes, just that it’s more difficult.
In terms of general biglaw hiring, firms typically have gpa cutoffs for hiring from each school and often require a higher gpa for a lower ranked school, with the highest ranked law schools having the most leeway.
And graduating from those top law schools helps down the road with career transitions.
After the stories I heard about the behavior of the newbies from a person I know who hired for a big law firm, I wouldn’t want anyone I care about to go into big law. Chasing money can definitely have a downside.
2 Likes
There is quite a pecking order for those who care about such things, but (as a total outsider, i.e, I am only close to this as an observing mom to somebody who isn’t even attending law school classes yet) it may be that the greatest amount of people who care about the pecking order are law school applicants and law students themselves. I imagine some of the difference begins to soften as people establish their own competency and networks.
However, there are some tangible differences, depending on one’s goals. Each school seems to have a different “flavor”….more intellectual and theoretical, more pragmatic, or more altruistic, etc. for example If one REALLY wants a shot at the Supreme Court or at least experience clerking under prestigious judges, Yale is the most direct route to that (it seems few other T-6s can be acceptable paths…I think U Chicago is one of these). Ditto for those who hope to one day become law school professors. Those hoping for very influential positions in public interest law are advised to go for the very top as well (which can be financially risky for non-wealthy students unless one’s sky-high gpa and LSAT score (think 175 and above) along with stellar recommendations, life story, etc, garner large merit aid at top programs.
If one simply wants a near guarantee to get into Biglaw….any Biglaw, most any T-14 will do, as well as T-14- adjacent schools such as UCLA, UT/Austin, WUSTL, etc as long a a student places reasonably well in the class. U Florida is a fine point of entry to Miami Biglaw; UT Austen for Texas Biglaw, etc. It may actually be advantageous to go to these schools if your desired point of entry for Biglaw is in the region of the school. Cornell, which has sort of jostled with Georgetown as the lower end of the original T-14 suddenly dropped in USNR to a “shocking” 18 this year. However, this likely has more to do with changed ranking criteria than anything else (plus, other schools like UCLA and WUSTL have moved in to have more of a national presence…a good thing, I think) but if one simply wants a solid foot in the door to NYC Biglaw, for example, one can’t go wrong with Cornell, a known pipeline to Manhattan through extensive alumni connections. I doubt that employers will notice or care about that drop in the rankings unless as that drops continues for a good amount of time. (Cornell’s first-time bar passage rate was #6 this year….ETA no, it ranked #8 , not 6th, but Cornell obviously trains its students well). After all, the T-14 simply means those schools who have ever ranked in the top ten law schools in the country, so maybe one day the term will expand to include T-18 or T-25 to denote national-level law schools. It seems the rankings will become more and more interesting…there was a lot of change this year (I think Harvard dropped to #6, for example).
So, if all this weren’t enough, Biglaw firms, themselves are ranked ( just as colleges and universities are: The Vault ranking). So, for those who are extremely prestige-driven yes, it matters very much to THEM which of the T-14 will get them to the tippy-top V-ranked summer internships and job offers. I think one can surely get a foot in the door to a V 1-20 firm from any T-14, IF one is top of the class, but if a student is attending Stanford or Columbia that probably becomes much easier to attain as a middle-of-the class student.
My daughter aimed fairly high for law school, as her goal at this point is a geographically flexible chance for a secure employment future, and she feels extremely grateful and lucky to have landed where she did as what is known as a reverse splitter applicant (with a high gpa, relatively lower LSAT) but so far, she hasn’t entered that insane race to split hairs over these things. I hope she remains that way!
2 Likes
I would not include Chicago with HYS. Times might have changed, but at my old firm if you were in the top half of HYS, you likely got a callback. Top third to quarter for the other T14. Other factors did come into play such as how well you interviewed.
If you aspire to top level clerkships, especially SCOTUS, law school and even undergrad have historically mattered. Want to be a Supreme Court clerk? It helps to graduate from these law schools and colleges
2 Likes
9 posts were split to a new thread: Supreme Court Clerkships and Law School Correlation