Thank you so much for the detailed responses. My sonâs unweighted is around 3.75. His school gives +1 bump for AP, DE and IB. I didnât realize that some schools give larger bumps. This helps me as I see kids with 4.5+ GPAâs and thatâs not an option in our district.
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This seems to be a common question but with varying answers. Our daughter took Algebra 1 in Middle School like a lot of students, but it does not appear on her high school transcript. I keep reading that the STAR/SRAR should match the transcript exactly but then there seems to be this gray area for middle school classes not on the transcript. There is no other transcript available that would list it ie., there is no Middle School Transcript. So should we include it or not?
Did she get credit for Algebra1 twd HS graduation ?
We finally just submitted the question directly to her High School Guidance office as there are over 200 applicants from her school applying to Penn State each year. I am also posting something I looked up and included in the request trying to provide context for the question and our confusion:
When reviewing the Tennessee SRAR FAQ it states: "Yesâany middle school course listed on your transcript and taken for high school credit must be listed on your STARS. If your courses are not on your transcript (with a grade), you will exclude them from the STARS.â
When reviewing the Penn State SRAR FAQ it states: âIf youâve taken any high school-level math or world language courses prior to 9th grade, please indicate those courses on your Self-reported Transcript and Academic Record System (STARS) Record in the middle school section with a pass or fail grade. For example, some students take Algebra 1 or Spanish 1 in middle school. You do not need to designate the name of your middle or junior high school on the STARS Record.â
I will update here when I receive a response, understanding it is still specific to our high school.
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Thank you very much.
Hi! My senior is hoping to get into Smeal with a fall start @ UP like many students but of course is nervous given the competitiveness of admissionsâŠespecially with the new direct admit change. They would love to know if they even have a shot at Smeal fall start @ UP (or even Smeal summer start @ UP). Current plan is to apply and, if they donât get fall or summer, to ask for reconsideration for another major - maybe hospitality management in the College of HHD. Anyone have a sense of what their chances are for Smeal fall start @ UP (or even summer start) would be? Their unweighted GPA is a 4.0 (only has had As in all classes), weighted GPA is a 4.2, will have 5 APs including AP Physics and Calc AB, 2 DEs including Statistics, and many other honors courses. Our school is very small but public. They are planning to go test optional at least at this time as their score isnât âhigh enoughâ. They have many ECs from sports (varsity) to theater (lead roles) to NHS to WLHS to Student Council with leadership positions in several. Thanks for any help! I know itâs a tough question to answer.
Have they taken 3-4 years of foreign language?
Whatâs their SAT or ACT score (and subscores)? Unless their math score is below 650 I would submit it to reassure PSU their HS school doesnât have grade inflation.
What scores did they get for the APs they took?
Excellent plan 
Hi! Yes, 4 years of French. Highest SAT math score = 650; Highest SAT r/w = 660. Taking ACT in Sept. APsâŠPhysics = 2, Calc = 3, Comp Sci = 4, Lit = 4. Taking Lang this year. Thanks!!
Hopefully heâll score higher on the ACT but if not, he could submit his SAT scores. You wonât have much time to decide since itâs best if scores are sent in early October (everything must be received and processed, including the STARS/SRAR, by Nov1). Seeing that 650 would be reassuring enough, at least for Summer admission.
4 years of French isa definite positive, it means heâll place directly into French 003 and will only have one semester to complete the Smeal requirement (although he can use the freed semesters to take an Intermediate class and Business French, especially if he hopes to study abroad in Canada or France).
The 4 in CS (whether CSA or CS Principles) will grant him 3 general credits in CS for Gen Eds. However he shouldnât submit his AP scores as part of admission and only request credit for CS, perhaps AP Lit, AFTER admission, for Gen Ed credits in subjects he wonât be taking further.
Thank you for all of this! Good to know that a 650 could be good enough. Do you think it might be better to just not submit at all given that the score(s) are borderline? That has been our train of thinking. The ACT score would more so be used (if better than the SAT) for schools with later deadlines and/or a non test optional policy. We could just leave it out of their PSU app especially if itâll hurt their chances for Smeal. Weâre just trying to help them prepare the most strategic app possible to increase their chances for a Smeal admissions - fall start ideally of course. Thank you!
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I think that SAT is better than not sending the score. Not sure itâd enough for a Fall admission but Iâd be surprised if it werenât for Summer.
Itâs the first year thereâs direct admit for Smeal and itâs one of the colleges where PSU admissions made clear Math classes (rigor, grades, and scores) matter.
After admission, submitting the 4s in CS and Lit for gen ed credits would be fine.
(If you want them to keep options open or take gen eds for their own culture&critical thinking, you could require they take a Literature seminar or Humanities class of interest and a class from IST.)
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Thanks again so much! Theyâre taking Stat as a DE course in the fall and is taking another DE course in the spring - they were considering taking another Calc course for that 2nd DE course, but weâll see. Maybe thatâll help their app too. Appreciate all of this!! Just one more question (for now anyway lol) - does it make a difference when the app is submitted as long as itâs all submitted by 11/1? Meaning, does it make a difference to submit asap? Does PSU review apps and make any decisions before 11/1? Iâve read that they do review and release decisions before 11/1 yet read elsewhere that they donât and wait until after 11/1. Thank you!
If you write on the Projected Senior Year Schedule of courses âDE statsâ for Fall, âDE Applied Calculus1â (or âCalc for BusinessââŠ) for Spring, itâd help, yes - especially if the Calc class transfers as equivalent to Math 110 (or 140, the âSTEMâ calc class).
As long as the app is submitted by Oct 15 it makes no difference. Oct 15 because each year the STARS process pushes the transcript not to be reformated on time for Nov1 if submitted too close to the deadline. BTW, do review what your child inputs because any oversight will mess with how rigor etc. is evaluated and as you know rigorĂgrades=2/3 decision. An extra pair of eyes to check no line was skipped and no course was wrongly entered is a safety feature.
The only applications processed before Nov1, as far as I know, are applications straight to Summer or straight to a branch campus (for reference, the âreal college experienceâ branches are Altoona, Behrend/Erie, and Harrisburg. Students can apply to Schreyer Honors at these campuses, and a few others, too. However, with PASSHE being so much more affordable than PSU now that the newish governor has decided to return them to their status as public universities that PA residents can actually attend, choosing a branch campus has to fit into a specific plan - like transitioning to Engineering, Meteorology, Criminology, French&Francophone Studies, Communication w/Sports reporting, PR, some of the AG majors⊠And Nursing is UP or Altoona.)
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A few comments about questions above.
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it will be EXTREMELY difficult for any predictions for Smeal with the new direct entry process. I expect DUS to become less competitive but more direct admits to Smeal.
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if the SAT/ACT is in the middle 50% range (or close), submit. There is some discussion above about students with same stats where one went test optional and one submitted with the admission status being better for the one submitting test scores.
My anecdotal experience is similar where kids who did not submit received a less desirable outcome (summer start or branch) than kids who submitted. (Similar stats, but not exactly the same).
Good luck all!
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Sorry if this is a dumb questionâŠ
But is Penn State single sitting or super score for SAT and ACT? I am confused by the information on Penn Stateâs website that seems to reference both super score and a single testing date.
I am just adding the response we received back from our âCollege and Career Readiness Counselerâ at my daughterâs high school. We are based in PA and send a lot of kids to Penn State and Pitt annually. Please keep in mind this is for our school, but just providing the answer we received about this question. For clarification, the middle school courses taken in our district are NOT included in the high school transcript.
âWe recommend the studentsâ STAR mirrors their transcript exactly, so you wouldnât put Algebra 1 on. When they see Geometry H in 9th grade, they will know she took Algebra in middle school. We actually used to put it on the transcript many years ago, but stopped for this reason, so the admissions counselors do make that assumption. If thereâs ever a question, the schools will call us.â
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Interesting. Is this from a school guidance counselor or from Penn State admissions ?
When my kids applied ( a few years ago), Algebra was a requirement and they had all taken it in MS. We were advised to list it (on the SRAR at the time) as a MS class so that the application was not rejected due to missing an admissions requirement. That is what we were told to do at that time.
Edited to add:
This is in the FAQ:
Do I need to list any courses from middle school or junior high on the STARS Record?
If youâve taken any high school-level math or world language courses prior to 9th grade, please indicate those courses on your Self-reported Transcript and Academic Record System (STARS) Record in the middle school section with a pass or fail grade. For example, some students take Algebra 1 or Spanish 1 in middle school. You do not need to designate the name of your middle or junior high school on the STARS Record.
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Single sitting. (Or has been that historically)
From the FAQ:
If a student indicates that they want to have SAT or ACT scores used in the evaluation of their application for admission, will Penn State superscore?
Penn State will use a studentâs highest combined score from one single test date.
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Thank youđ
On the one hand, the issue is that this policy^ assumes a more individualized process - the SRAR (STARS) automatically reformats all transcripts to guarantee an apple-to-apple easy comparison - a box will summarize highest/high/standard rigor, English 4 years, Foreign Language 3 years, etc.; itâs all automatized meaning no human eyes go through it line by line at that point; if Algebra1 is removed then the student is marked as having 4 units of Math, not 5, which isnât bad because itâs above the minimum required (3 1/2) and benchmarks such as Precalc and calc would appear, but it is a competitive disadvantage (4 vs. 5 or 6 courses in one subject, 3 vs 4..)
On the other hand, your school sends 200+ kids to PSU every year so it probably doesnât matter much, at least for them.
Doesnât the PSU language seem to say that if it counts for the HS you should include it regardless of transcript?
If youâve taken any high school-level math or world language courses prior to 9th grade, please indicate those courses on your Self-reported Transcript and Academic Record System (STARS) Record in the middle school section with a pass or fail grade. For example, some students take Algebra 1 or Spanish 1 in middle school. You do not need to designate the name of your middle or junior high school on the STARS Record.
This is a good point - that no human eyes may look at the STARS/SRAR. It might not be âsmartâ and say âoh, youâve taken geometry, must mean you had algebra alreadyâ. It may say " no algebra listed, does not meet requirements".
Even though the HS counselors tell you NOT to list it, I would list the MS courses that are HS-level for credit. Mostly math, but also foreign language. That is expressly what the FAQs tell you to do. I look at it like I donât want anything to be a hiccup in the process because just as easy for them to move on to the next candidate (who DID follow directions).
I would not rely upon a Penn State Admissions officer talking to your HS counselors. Frankly, they donât have the time!
ymmv, but that is how I see it.
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