Penn State fraternity and 18 of its members are charged in student's death

Parent Cafe
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"They did commit a crime. There was underage drinking. "

YES! Also, hazing is a crime in my state. Not sure about Pennsylvania, but if it is, then at least two crimes were committed.

Agree with @Hunt I’m also not convinced the report card approach will work. I was trying to find out how many people were in the frat and found a “rank the fraternity” website in which the frat was ranked “bad” when it was dry and “good” when word got out they were partying more. The students definitely wanted - and were proud of - the Animal House atmosphere.

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@tutumom2001 “Agree with @Hunt I’m also not convinced the report card approach will work.”

The students may not mind that atmosphere, but having to explain it to their parents may be a game changer, or at least tamp things down.

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“The students may not mind that atmosphere, but having to explain it to their parents may be a game changer, or at least tamp things down.”

At Indiana University, for example, as a parent, I can go onto the Student Affairs website and see which chapters are on probation and see the cause. I can see where each chapter falls based on GPA. I can use readily available information to educate my child about potential risky behavior. That information is not available at Penn State.

The more transparency that is put in place, the better equipped parents are to help our students understand what they should be looking for in an organization; and more importantly what to avoid.

While, on campus, the reputations of each fraternity are absolutely based on who throws the best parties, etc. and the ones that are engaging in the riskiest behaviors are considered “cool”. However, if parents can educate themselves and talk to their students about the risks associated with these choices, hopefully progress will be made in making the “cool” fraternities the ones that don’t haze.

In HS, the kids that are respected are the ones that excel in academics, sports, leadership, etc. The kids that are doing drugs are not considered the most “cool”. There needs to be a paradigm shift on campuses driven by education and communication. These “report cards” are a good way to start that process.

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“In HS, the kids that are respected are the ones that excel in academics, sports, leadership, etc.”

They still drink and possibly have done drugs before.

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“The students may not mind that atmosphere, but having to explain it to their parents may be a game changer, or at least tamp things down.”

^Exactly this. The website that I cited previously outlining frat and sorority offenses was quite an eye-opener for me. Based on recent tragedies/stories, I would use all available analytics and this would be one. I am hopeful that there is a multi-pronged approach moving ahead.

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If schools kicked out every kid that gets caught underage drinking they would have revenue issues. Whatever punishment given to any other drinker would have to be applied.Also my point was private v publics and the differing legal issues each faces. Not whether this set of facts @PSU was deserving of punishment. It appears that would be the case. BTW the kid that died was from my home town where lots of kids go to PSU.

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@MomfromPA15317 “However, if parents can educate themselves and talk to their students about the risks associated with these choices, hopefully progress will be made in making the “cool” fraternities the ones that don’t haze.”

Same with sororities. “Top Tier” sororities are often the ones that rank the highest on a two criteria scale of 1). appearance and 2.) Who drinks the most heavily and often. I have never seen it explained that way to the parents though.

I think a little transparency can go a long way.

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@NASA2014 “They still drink and possibly have done drugs before.”

You are 100% correct. I am sure that many have. I was trying to contrast the “cool” involved kids vs. the stoners who are outcasts. It is a difficult task to try and make it “cool” to be more responsible about recreating. That pressure needs to continue to come from parents. I can tell you that if my child came to me saying that they wanted to pledge an organization whose report card showed a history of poor academic performance, hazing and sexual assaults, it would be forbidden.

These groups can’t thrive without new members. If a chapter had enough parents forbidding their children from joining because their infractions were public, it would help weed the herd.

I recognize that Beta Theta Pi won PSU’s Chapter of the Year in 2015 and was always top of the academic rankings. So, there would likely be behaviors that would not be reflected on these report cards. However, as tutumom2001 pointed out, information about what they were doing was apparently common knowledge on campus. As a result of that suggestion, I took a look at their Greek Rank reviews and can see that as recently as 2016 and 2015, this chapter was still dry. Comments from that period where they were ranked as less popular, show that they were not hosting parties. Something changed with the last pledge class or two as evidenced by the comments made about this group. Much of this information is childish but there are telling details revealed there.

I don’t know that the Greek affairs staff should be using this type of information to develop report cards. But, they should certainly have individuals embedded in the community reporting what they see. I am sure they could develop a system to have more individuals reporting risky behavior.

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I would argue that any organization that has a history of hazing and sexual assault should not be on campus in the first place. Having a “report card” actually confirming those things would suggest to me an environment of tolerance that I would not be comfortable with. While as a parent I would certainly be happy to have this information, seems to me this is a way for the administration to avoid cracking down and if problems arise say “well you knew what you were getting into.”

At this point any approach is worth a try but put me in the camp of “skeptical.”

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it was dry this year too. It just wasn’t.

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I seriously doubt it was dry in the past few years. Reading through the presentment, it seemed clear that the hazing/drinking activities that went on followed an existing pattern utilized during existing members initiation periods.

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My point exactly. Apparently the distinction of being a “dry” frat means nothing at all.

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@OHMomof2 and doschicos, go to the Greek Rank site and look at the comments written about Beta Theta Pi.

This is a silly, stupid website filled with anonymous comments presumably from collegians. The older comments paint a different picture than the more recent ones. If you read a sampling below, you can see that things were changing :

May 6, 2013
dry house doesn’t help them.

Sept 26, 2014
Good looking and very classy but don’t have parties and never see any of them out at other greek events

Nov 30,2014
Old Betas were better

Dec 7, 2014
Not sure why some of these guys settled on this house, I feel like a lot of them could have gone to way better places. I’ve really liked the brothers I’ve met, but the dry house really hurts their social scene.

June 3, 2015
The guys are kinda feminine and they rarely drink in their house

July 7, 2015
they are boring but their house is nice af. super rich and future politicians . pretty close with dg. dont really know what tier theyd be because they barely have parties and they are not very involved

Feb 23, 2016
Not a “Top Tier Fraternity” lol. They have a nice house, but thats about it. They’re boring.

May 18, 2016
A bunch of really good guys that live in a really nice house but thats about it. they aren’t good socially yet because they don’t really host anything up until this past spring. they have potential but until they prove they can throw parties and not just get ok away bars they will stay right in the middle.

Nov 1, 2016
For the past few years, BETA has been looked at as one of the biggest jokes of Penn State Greek life. Beautiful house, but no parties. Looks like these times have changed, bc BETA has had some of the best socials this year. More away bars with 4th tier and a great social schedule, they’re starting to move up. Their pledge class is one of the best I’ve seen so far and within a few years, BETA will be very well respected again.

November 10, 2016
For years Beta was known as the best of the best on campus.Best looking guys, most involved, olympic athletes, football players,Nittany Lion mascots. After being destroyed and rebuilt these guys have went from goobers to a respectable house. They seem to be no longer dry, throw great parties, have the nicest house on campus, a cute dog, and their last few PCs have been stellar. Beta is on its way to the top. The All-American fraternity. These guys seem to be super rich too, WASP through and thru

As you read the timeline, you can see that to “move up” they moved away from their commitment to being dry.

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Interfraternity CEO calls Penn State hazing death an “unacceptable reflection on humanity”…

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interfraternity-ceo-judson-horras-addresses-hazing/

“We encourage criminal charges,” Horras said. “We think the state laws on hazing need to and should be enforced fully to combat hazing.”

He says there needs to be a change in culture on campuses and that fraternities need to lead that change.

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A report card delineating hazing, underage drinking, sexual assaults in parallel with communicating a group’s academics, philanthropy, etc., could be an effective first effort for Penn State; perhaps, The University of Pennsylvania, Drexel, Widener, La Salle, Bucknell, and Temple, to name a few, will follow suit and become standard.

I like Barron’s terminology of “buyer’s guide”; in fact, I initially thought a comprehensive grading system for all organizations as proposed in the article too extensive, but then thought why not? Marching band came to mind.

Fraternities and sororities will bear the consequences of their actions over time if reliable information from a responsible source is available. I won’t patronize a restaurant cited for active roach or mice infestations in its health department inspection; perhaps, college students/parents will utilize a reporting tool to not join certain fraternities or sororities as well.

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Ew. That’s what it takes to be a top house, huh?

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Unfortunately, those comments underscored the very same yardstick that has been used at many other colleges to judge fraternities/sororities…cept they were far less PC about it back when my cousins attended and were fraternity/sorority members/officers in the early-late '80s.

And fraternity/sorority alums and their sympathizers wonder why others have negatively/dismissive perceptions of them.

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“Ew. That’s what it takes to be a top house, huh?.”

Yes, pretty disturbing to read these types of comments. It would appear that a few years ago, the chapter was living by the rules (and therefore being belittled by their peers). No one wants to be talked about like that. So, it appears that they decided to adjust their MO. It is interesting to me that this transition appears to have taken place right around the same time that their live in adviser moved in! Coincidence? Or, perhaps was that adviser sharing stories of the “good old days”?!

“Unfortunately, those comments underscored the very same yardstick that has been used at many other colleges to judge fraternities/sororities…cept they were far less PC about it back when my cousins attended and were fraternity/sorority members/officers in the early-late '80s.”

I would say that in my day as an active in the 80s, we were not labeled the same way that these chapters are today. There was no internet and no awful Greek Rank site. We knew which chapters were better looking, won intramural competitions and had better houses. Those were the “popular” fraternities just as the “popular” sororities had the better looking women. However, there was not this anonymous bullying aspect that ranked chapters into “tiers” where organizations feel pressured to make poor choices for higher peer reviews.

This ranking is a microcosm; certainly not reserved for Greek organizations. People in every community know which families are “better”/ more respected. People judge others on cars they drive or where they live. Every HS is filled with “cool” kids and those considered “goobers.” The fraternity and sorority world did not create these divisions so I see no reason for others to have negative or dismissive perceptions of them.

However, I think it is a sad testament about this case and this chapter that this pressure pushed these young men to move down a path that resulted in such a tragedy. As a parent, all I hope that I can do is instill in my children a stronger sense of self and belief in their values so that they choose their friends and experiences accordingly.

679

Still, eww.

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^That’s the kind of thinking I was glad to leave behind in high school.