Penn State fraternity and 18 of its members are charged in student's death

Parent Cafe
941

@bodangles…no worries. Your perspective is thoughtful and respected.

@greenbutton …nicely put regarding most college kids/students. Inherently good.

@pilot2012 …obviously you did not read the article. I understand your need to defend PSU, but many articles posted are from a national perspective. Interestingly enough, the one I posted today is from PSU’s back yard…Lancaster. The hope is that PSU leadership will someday seize these opportunities to improve the protectionist culture that has been evident to most of the nation for at least nearly the last decade. Parties at the crime frat house are inexcusable and poor taste. The hope is that folks could see that and effect needed change. PSU’s tuition has increased at a light years pace…for non residents that decide to pass their own flagship and get sucked into over paying for PSU. To each his own. However, the situation for Commonealth residents has been proven to be unfair,legislature, management, hype…at the end, higher education at a true public institution should be available/affordable for all…I am one that believes PSU has lost it’s way…and I think many would agree…whether is the Sandusky scandal, tuition/acceptance, frats, branch campuses, parties in the former crime sceen or just a percieved culture…it has had many chances to lead…and it just can’t. Oh…and as greenbutton has stated…this will just cost the same Commonwealth residents more money, lawsuits and taxes while we hear PSU Board of Trustee’s cry that the university is underfunded. It is a mess and can’t accept that.

PSU still has amazing attributes…no doubt.

Several on here try to bully me into stop posting articles with their messages or comment(thank God for the editors). I call it bullying Penn State style…but that isn’t a fair description to all…I understand that.

Having said that…many amazing kids come out of the university…a credit to those young people.

Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 step program has a 1st step…acceptance of the problem…maybe it is a stretch, maybe not…could it be a good place to start?

942

Bullying? You’ve actually been given quite free reign sans any moderation to introduce numerous ancillary issues (tuition, favoring foreign students, etc.) under the umbrella of “culture” to continue to denigrate Penn State.

I asked if you were at Penn State or to cite some source since you said no students were protesting the use of the house this past weekend. Do you have some source? Oh, and the “we” is the Lancaster Online Editorial Board? Fine. I try use my time wisely. That said, how do you quantify Penn State’s “protectionist culture that has been evident to most of the nation for at least nearly the last decade.” Of course, we know about correlation, etc.; however, do you have some reliable statistics, data that indicates applications are down, static career fair participation, etc. that you could share? Also, something that supports “most of the nation” and the “decade” part?

I find your referencing AA in such poor taste that I won’t comment

943

As far as I’m aware (and there may have been changes I missed), there’s no prohibition against criticizing any university on CC, including in that university’s forum. What you’re not allowed to do is attack another poster you don’t agree with. IMHO, that’s is bullying.

If you have an issue with someone’s comments, just mark that user as “ignored.” If you think a poster has crossed a line, flag it and report it to the moderators. Otherwise, rebut their arguments.

Penn State, for better or worse, has been in the national news a lot over the past decade and, unfortunately, a lot of the criticism they’ve received appears well deserved. As a Pennsylvania resident and taxpayer, I think I and every Pennsylvanian has a right to criticize the university. Rather than attack its critics, it would be far more helpful to read of what Penn State is doing right - and it’s doing plenty very, very well, especially on the academic side. Start a thread about that.

Those who decided Penn State was worth the out-of-state cost should have plenty of reasons they felt the school was worth the expense. No need to attack those who are justifiably angry about what happened in that fraternity house, especially in a thread about that case.

944

I continue to find @bester1’s posts and links informative and helpful.

945

I also find @bester1 's posts and links informative and helpful. I don’t always agree with them, but I do try to be informed as to what various opinions are out there.

I am not a Pennsylvania resident, but I do feel that what is happening at PSU could happen at any university in the country, including my own state. I find it highly suspicious that a judge who has little knowledge of actual case law is presiding over a case in which one of the parties has a vested interest - both financial and public image - and the financial means to support this judge’s political campaign. We, as the backbone of the political system, should always question the motives in such circumstances. And, we, as taxpayers, have every right to question the administrative policies and moral integrity of a public institution and the people who run it. There may or may not be any corruption in this case, but we won’t know unless the paper trail is questioned and investigated.

946

For whatever it is worth(not required reading but a choice if you are interested because of the questions posted in #941)…here is the report from June 2017 from the Pennsylvania Auditor General DePasquale that was done because of the Sandusky Scandal and PSU attempt to cover it up…that is how other items were uncovered and this was all done before the frat tragedy…

http://www.paauditor.gov/press-releases/auditor-general-depasquale-says-penn-state-shows-some-progress-since-sandusky-scandal-background-checks-still-missing-tuition-growth-outrageous

The fact remain that the leaders from this era are serving time in jail at this moment.

Again…I have no issue with students/faculty…leadership is a real issue.

947

The op-ed piece referenced in #932 may reflect the feelings of the editor and/or bester1. However, it is important to understand that this is not representative of everyone universally. As I have stated before, I have incredible empathy for the Beta Theta Pi alumni because I am sure they are just as upset as everyone about what has transpired. They are hardly mourning the loss of a child, but they are in deep mourning nonetheless.

Did we expect Virginia Tech to tear down the halls where Seung Hui Cho killed so many? Did we expect Colombine HS and others that followed to tear down their schools because of the carnage that took place in their halls? Why would anyone expect the Beta Theta Pi house to be torn down, or to never be used again? That request or expectation would be beyond comprehension. These tragedies have taken place. They may have become a place of mourning. But, it would be over reaching to expect that the buildings would become taboo thereafter. I have passed by the Beta house at least a dozen times since Tim’s passing and I have reflected on his loss every time. However, not once have I thought that this house needs to be destroyed to help preserve his memory. That makes no sense to me.

As for greenbutton’s post, I could not agree more. I saw so many pictures of our PSU students waiting to attend the career fair this week, I had chills. Those young people were dressed to the nines and ready to conquer the world. Kudos to all of them for preparing for their future. These are bright, motivated young adults who will surely be successful despite whatever is thrown at them because of administrative inadequacies.

People need to see beyond these tragedies and recognize that the PSU students are getting a great education and are finding fabulous jobs. That is why this place is in such demand.

948

@MomfromPA15317 has someone on this thread suggested that the house be torn down??? I don’t see that suggestion in the op-ed piece either.

949

I find it pretty ironic that you consider yourself bullied, @bester1 when you feel comfortable using terms such as JayPa.

If Penn State’s “protectionist culture that has been evident to most of the nation for at least nearly the last decade” is SO evident, I’d consider there should be extensive negative ramifications.

https://stats.psu.edu/

Increase in enrollment, increase in applications, increase in degrees awarded, etc. You can bemoan ad nauseam the increases in tuition, but until something changes in higher education increases will continue. Plan accordingly.

http://news.psu.edu/story/411096/2016/05/19/campus-life/large-increase-expected-university-park-fall-enrollment-numbers

Unexpected increase in the number of students accepting admission offers.

“Leading up to the May 1 admissions deadline, Penn State saw a surge in paid acceptances,” said Rob Pangborn, vice president and dean for Undergraduate Education."

https://psu-csm.symplicity.com/events/653a3f9a75fc2a9c04be9bde5d488572/overview

More than 500 employers will be attending the career fair (and yes, you need a map). The networking of this event cannot be emphasized enough.

Sidebar – The career services will assist students in interview skills (video), resume cover letter writing, professional attire closet (ie “what not to wear.” )

http://studentaffairs.psu.edu/hub/studentorgs/orgdirectory/Search.aspx

Wholesale painting of Penn State “culture” by some on this thread is it’s basically football and drinking (with the ever popular Paterno and high tuition invectives as a side order); yet, Student Academic and Professional organizations number ~ 229 with frats at 79. Even more shocking, Penn State has religious and spiritual, philanthropic and honor societies that combined far outnumber frats and sports.

But maybe this all just qualifies as “piss poor marketing” stuff.

The disappointing outcome of this thread is that what began as a rational conversation focusing on the tragedies of binge drinking, hazing (that can and has occurred at other colleges/universities) and deplorable behavior has become a dais for indiscriminate PSU condemnation and invective. I cannot begin to imagine the profound sadness the Piazza family continues to endure.

@greenbutton – I heard the number one Google question is: how do you tie a tie? Just a guess, but I’d imagine that query was youtubed by a lot of PSU kids this week :slight_smile:

950

“I find it pretty ironic that you consider yourself bullied, @bester1 when you feel comfortable using terms such as JayPa.”

How is this at all offensive? It’s not.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

951

and now there is this:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/15/us/lsu-student-hazing-death/index.html

952

@doschicos – and how specifically does the invective “JayPa” further the conversation about this tragedy?

953

Banned Penn State frat house reopens for alums: Proper use or ‘drunken flop house’?..
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/09/penn_state_beta_theta_pi_alumn.html

954

How is it invective? His name is Jay Pa-terno.

955

Can’t make this stuff up.

956

@MomfromPA15317 I don’t think anyone expects the house to become a shrine or torn down, but you have to admit that it is a bit disrespectful to be opening the house specifically for game-day partying with the wounds of the incident still festering. It’s like dancing on someone’s grave the day after the funeral. Also, comparing this to mass shootings is different. The shootings at VaTech and Columbine were outliers in their respective communities. I highly doubt that this was the first year for excessive alcohol and hazing at this fraternity house - I’m sure the alumni participated in many of these same hazing practices.

957

There are rumors that in the LSU incident someone posted video to social media.

958

I stand corrected(I apologize)…1 of the former PSU Administrators has been released from jail…

Schultz out of jail; Penn State votes on taking name off day care center…
http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/education/penn-state/jerry-sandusky/article173263861.html

Former Penn State official Gary Schultz is out of jail…
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/09/sandusky_scandal_penn_state_co.html

959

LSU shuttered one of it’s frats in 2015 for hazing. This is what one of the students reported to administrators:

Hard to believe this sort of garbage is allowed to go on at our institutions of higher learning. Even harder to accept the lack of leadership exhibited by some administrations.

960

“Did we expect Colombine HS and others that followed to tear down their schools because of the carnage that took place in their halls?”

They did. Columbine tore down the library where most of the students died. Sandy Hook tore down the whole school.

http://www.businessinsider.com/sandy-hook-school-torn-down-rebuilt-2013-5

Whether this is good or bad policy, it is not unusual to raze or repurpose the sites of tragic deaths.