<p>That may be true and our kids’ high school the kids are excused early when they have far away meets, they get test retakes and all sorts of things across all kinds of sports. Again we can throw all kinds of examples (band, choir, theater) where certain subsets of students are treated in a different way but punishing one school does not change a national culture…it doesn’t even start to change a national culture. And in general you are talking about a small subset of all students across all campuses. All the things that people hate about athletics can be pervasive even within a division 3 school. In our state there are decades old rivalries among some of the Div 3 schools that entire communities get ‘involved’ in. Penn State can “fix” the administrative issues, but that probably won’t change the culture of a big university dynamic as much as the anti-college sports crowd would like. Secondly if you say no to sports you say no to all sports or you say OK but maybe just club sports. But in many unis the club teams travel and have all the same sorts of exceptions that NCAA sports have. People can betch and betch and betch but squashing one school and one sport probably isn’t going to change much.</p>
<p>My point about MOWC 's niece was only that it’s one kids opinion. I could sit here and tell you about my son and his many friends that graduated from PSU and whether which ones felt that the football team ran the school but it doesn’t matter. Now if 25000 kids believed the football team ran the school then we can have a discussion. </p>
<p>I think many people outside of state college have a very skewed vision of day to day life at penn state. Football games on Saturday . Absolutely. Football players running the campus. Not a chance. </p>
<p>Football players are kept together as much as possible with scheduling ,practices , homework scheduling , and weight training etc. They are keep together as a team as much as possible.</p>
<p>^^The problem was not the football players running the campus. The problem was the football coach running the campus, and the majority of the campus community thinking that situation was just fine because the coach could do no wrong.</p>
<p>Again I was addressing MOWC niece and her perceptions of the football culture and how it affected her as a student.</p>
<p>I want to know exactly how it impacted her. That was the conversation.</p>
<p>I highly doubt the football coach was "running’ the university as many seem to think. I can ‘buy’ that he was considered a trusted higher up after all those years and that he had great weight in THIS particular incident because it was a former direct report involved.</p>
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<p>I don’t doubt it. The Penn State janitor quoted in the Freeh report who said “Football runs this university” had seen it all first hand and probably knew what he was talking about and who held the real power. Football ran the university and Paterno ran the football.</p>
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<p>I cited an example pages and pages back about Rene Portland, who was the women’s basketball coach and blatantly discriminated against lesbians. Basketball fans all over the country were calling for her to get fired for years. She got sued by one of the best players on the team who she had kicked off and forced to transfer because she said she acted like a lesbian (the player was not out and said she wasn’t gay). Portland was finally asked to resign a year letter. Why was she there for so long? She was friends with Paterno and he wanted her to stay.</p>
<p>[Moment</a> #47: Penn State fires women’s basketball coach Rene Portland – Outsports](<a href=“http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2011/08/21/moment-47-penn-state-fires-womens-basketball-coach-rene-portland/]Moment”>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2011/08/21/moment-47-penn-state-fires-womens-basketball-coach-rene-portland/)</p>
<p>She was at Penn State for 27 years.</p>
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<p>I think this example is kind of missing the point. Kids all over the place get excused from class for various reasons in high school or college. That’s not the difference in the way that football and basketball players are treated at big name schools. We’ve all heard stories about various ways grades are doctored, whether it’s selective classes, professors deliberately lenient to athletes, tutors writing papers, etc. I remember men’s basketball players at Uconn caught selling pot, and at another point a group of them stole 11 laptops. Both times, they got slaps on the wrist.</p>
<p><<the problem="" was="" the="" football="" coach="" running="" campus,="" and="" majority="" of="" campus="" community="" thinking="" that="" situation="" just="" fine="" because="" could="" do="" no="" wrong.="">></the></p>
<p>Well if that was the problem, then no worries - the coach is gone. The football coach is no longer “running the campus”, so I guess the problem is solved? Oh, that’s right. You’re also blaming the " majority of the campus community". After all, if a janitor said that it must be true…</p>
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That is one janitor’s viewpoint, not truth. I know faculty and staff and students, and while it is certainly true that Joe was disordinately powerful for a coach, that power was felt and real only to a few top people. I have heard of no faculty claiming any direct or indirect attempts to influence academics, and while in later years he became more insular with regards to team discipline we still don’t have the full story on what that meant and how far it went.</p>
<p>Joe was popular, and brought in a ton of money, and had an adversarial relationship with the top management (including the trustees) because they kept wanting to replace him - the catch being that he brought in a ton of money, and replacing him on bad terms would hurt more than keeping him. Yes, he had power over Spanier and some others, simply because regardless of official position, he was the more important one. </p>
<p>Why? Money, primarily. It is the tragic truth that the principal job of a university President these days is to bring in money. Paterno, directly and indirectly, brought in more money than Spanier did, so the worst thing that Spanier could do was get rid of Joe (unless he could somehow keep Joe happy in the process, something he never figured out how to do). So no matter what happened, Joe had power over Spanier. If Spanier got rid of Paterno, he would likely have been out the door right afterwards due to the sudden drop in donations.</p>
<p>Same goes for Curley. His whole department was dependent on football revenue, and therefore Paterno. Get rid of Joe, revenues likely go down, especially if it is unharmonius. Recruiting likely takes a hit as well, which makes the whole thing worse.</p>
<p>So yes, he had power - just like certain coaches and athletes and superstars of every flavor hold sway everywhere, because they bring in the money. But the idea that this influence permeated the campus is without any merit that I can see. Did a janitor fear that power? Yes, and there are people who think Obama is out to get their guns, too - fear of something does not prove its existence.</p>
<p>“Portland was a success on the court, winning 600 games as Penn State’s coach. But in her last two seasons, she had a losing record, which made it easier for Penn State to accept her resignation.”</p>
<p>Erieann, your own link disputes your theory. She stayed while she was winning, left when she was losing. What does that have to do with Paterno? Read your link.</p>
<p>coureur, The janitor? Really? Exactly HOW did football run the university? </p>
<p>Joe Paterno was a powerful man. He was able to get results for the football team. He certainly had the attention of those who ran the university. He never ran the university. He had no reason to get involved in anything that wasn’t touching his football team.</p>
<p>Cosmicfish ^^^^ You said this much better than I was able.</p>
<p>it’s the ex-players turn … [Former</a> Penn State Nittany Lions players intend to appeal NCAA sanctions - ESPN](<a href=“http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8245600/former-penn-state-nittany-lions-players-intend-appeal-ncaa-sanctions]Former”>Former Penn State Nittany Lions players intend to appeal NCAA sanctions - ESPN)</p>
<p>I found one link that describes the story. If you want to, spend more time reading about it. I have a friend who knows her well and covered the Penn State program for years. I know people who were involved with the effort to get rid of her. Most public universities, with such blatant discrimination going on, would have gotten rid of her or given her more than a slap on the wrist. She was basically sent to anti-discrimination counseling anytime somebody complained. There was also a lot of public pressure and complaints sent to PSU. She was good friends with Paterno and he wanted her to stay. If you watch the movie “Training Rules,” it spells it out.</p>
<p>The losing was incidental. Some universities keep losing WBB coaches for years because they don’t care about the program. The last straw was the increased public outrage after the lawsuit.</p>
<p>^^Post 7927 my quote you used is out of context and was a response to an earlier post. Please read entire posts in order or it’s easy to take things out of context. I was not missing the point I was responding to the previous post which said “kind of like high school.”</p>
<p>Sorry, I did completely miss the “kind of like high school” part of it and was wondering why you were making the high school comparison. I think non football/basketball college sports like rowing and softball and cross country are handled very similarly to high school sports (and I don’t think these athletes get any major advantages over non-athletes), but football/basketball at major schools are an entirely different matter.</p>
<p>So the opinions of a lowly janitor don’t matter but I have seen and heard reasonably intelligent people who are PSU alum sing the praises of JoePa as if he is a saint
People whom I would otherwise respect
And still defend him to this day
As an outsider with no skin in the game, and as a mother who will once again be faced with the college decisions with my youngest in the next few years, PSU would be crossed off because there are plenty of schools that offer
fine academics without the brainwashing and cult following of a school such as this…the irony is that my youngest is so turned off by the cultish following of the people she knows who worship in the church of PSU…way before the scandal, that she is repulsed enough to stay clear…One of her best friends parents are alum and her cousin is on the football team. They were furious when they spotted McQueary vacationing in our area…what does that say ?</p>
<p>If football is so unimportant at PSU why is everyone trying to appeal the NCAA sanctions? </p>
<p>You can’t have it both ways. Either football is unimportant, so no need to worry about the sanctions or football is important, the sanctions are awful, etc.</p>
<p>Clearly, the top admin at PSU thought the squeaky cleam image of the football program was more important than calling the cops on a child abuser. That says a lot.</p>
<p>Lje62, You are correct, you should cross PSU off of your list. The lowly(your word choice) janitor is entitled to his opinion but not to the facts. What does it say that they were furious when they spotted McQueary vacationing in your area?</p>
<p><<if football="" is="" so="" unimportant="" at="" psu="" why="" everyone="" trying="" to="" appeal="" the="" ncaa="" sanctions?="">></if></p>
<p>Not “everyone” is trying to appeal. A few BoT members and a handful of former players. That’s it. No question - football is important to some (maybe even many) people at Penn State. But it is not the end-all-be-all for EVERYONE. </p>
<p>But it is really so surprising that one group that considers it important are FOOTBALL PLAYERS???</p>
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I did not say they don’t matter, I said they were not definitive truth.</p>
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Also not definitive truth. Have you heard no middle opinions anywhere? Like, for example, on here?</p>
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That class is optional, actually, and not required to graduate. Just FYI.</p>
<p>Out of curiosity, what specifically is it about PSU that is so different in this? I ask because I have witnessed school pride and sports mania from a variety of different schools, and cannot for the life of me see what is different about Penn State - other than that we prided ourselves on our integrity (which, however betrayed, is still something I think EVERY school should pride itself on!). </p>
<p>Please, ask an Ohio State alum where they went to school - “THE Ohio State University”. Check out the student section of any school with a top football or basketball team, and see what happens in the stadium and on campus, and then tell me which lines the students of PSU crossed. Because if I (we) cannot identify said lines, how do you expect us to avoid crossing them?</p>
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I don’t know - did they say why they were furious? I must admit, I am also furious with him - much of that started back when he was my high school quarterback, but the fact that he is the only person I know who witnessed child rape, walked away, and then ignored it for a decade certainly contributes. McQueary was important to convicting Sandusky, that does not make him a good person by any stretch of the imagination.</p>
<p><<i must="" admit,="" i="" am="" also="" furious="" with="" him="" -="" …="" the="" fact="" that="" he…="" witnessed="" child="" rape,="" walked="" away,="" and="" then="" ignored="" it="" for="" a="" decade="" certainly="" contributes.="">></i></p><i must="" admit,="" i="" am="" also="" furious="" with="" him="" -="" …="" the="" fact="" that="" he…="" witnessed="" child="" rape,="" walked="" away,="" and="" then="" ignored="" it="" for="" a="" decade="" certainly="" contributes.="">
<p>If I saw him vacationing in my area, I certainly wouldn’t be running up to shake his hand.</p>
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