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I am not sure what that is supposed to mean, but isn’t that what the courts are doing? The purpose of the courts is to punish evil mean on behalf of society, based on evidence and with due process. The alternative is the lynch mob.</p>
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<p>You are trying to rewrite history. You’re also actively trying to separate the potentially criminal activities (and that is being generous as the the main character in this sordid decade long string of abuses has been convicted and sentenced) from the oversight duties imposed on the people who directed PSU and its football program. Perhaps, I mischaracterize your position but it seems to be along the line of “Punish the culprits in a court, but leave PSU alone. The school has no responsibility and act properly.”</p>
<p>Fwiw, your line includes a deliberate “actively enables” and that is a canard. The actions (or lack thereof) amounted to TACITLY enabling a child molester to continue his predatory acts for a very long time. PSU was punished for its LACK of actions. </p>
<p>But again, it matters very little. As every issue that involves a LOT of money, the deciders are weighing the issue of justice against their true masters, namely money and what football means to a community. While some of us believe that the only just punishment includes one that DIRECTLY affects the community (all related to King Football) that many sought to protect at … all cost. That punishment is none other than … no football whatsoever for 3 to 5 years. End of story. </p>
<p>For the record, you do not have to change your mind. And neither are the people who believe PSU got away with it. That is the way it works! And life goes on.</p>
<p>cosmicfish, I am also someone who comes to this board to share ideas and perhaps to challenge some of my own opinions. I loathe the thought of having an inflexible thought process for the sole purpose of being “right” in my own mind. However, you lost all credibility with me when you referred to the Penn State debacle as a “once in a century snafu”. To reduce the enormity of the situation to those words signals to me that you just haven’t processed the magnitude of the tragedy that those boys endured. To make matters worse, they were the most vulnerable of boys - many without fathers of their own, who had single mothers desperate for good role models for their sons. Just cowardly in every sense of the word. Unforgivable in my book.</p>
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How, exactly?</p>
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Yes, and more. I think that there are 4 distinct groups at Penn State:</p>
<p>1) Those for whom there is sufficient evidence of criminal behavior to send them to trial.</p>
<p>2) Those for whom there is not sufficient evidence, but whose specific responsibilities include supervision and oversight of those in group 1**.</p>
<p>3) Those whose positions gave them the opportunity to witness suspicious behavior.</p>
<p>4) Everyone else at Penn State.</p>
<p>Group 1 is going to jail or at least to trial*. Group 2 is essentially limited to the Board of Trustees, which has been untouched by either criminal prosecution OR NCAA sanction. Group 3 is extremely hard to identify outside of the witness lists, and is present in every single child molestation case. Group 4 is being persecuted including right here in this thread, because they belong to a “culture” that NO ONE has yet been able to differentiate to me from that at dozens of other schools.</p>
<p>My position is NOT “Punish the culprits in a court, but leave PSU alone. The school has no responsibility and act properly.”, my position is “The school is not a monolithic entity with a group consciousness. The most effective results will be to parse punishment according to actual guilt, and the more uneven that distribution of blame appears the less justice has been accomplished.”</p>
<p>I think attacking Penn State as a whole for the actions of a few makes about as much sense as spitting on soldiers and slandering the military because one soldier committed an atrocity and a handful of officers covered it up.</p>
<p>**: Depending on your point of view, Paterno belongs somewhere in groups 1-3. If 1, then he is not going to trial by virtue of being dead.</p>
<p>**: You could also argue that as a regulatory body with oversight powers, the NCAA itself falls into this category. They were perfectly happy with Penn State’s system of oversight up to the day criminal charges were announced.*</p>
<p>
I think this needs some parsing as well. Going back to the groups I listed above, the first group was ACTIVELY enabling and that is NOT a canard. The second group was tacitly enabling a hell of a lot of things by refusing to actually perform any oversight, but this group has not been punished at all. The third group is composed of people who may have had suspicions, but no evidence, and while they indeed tacitly enabled what happened, I do not think there is much to be done to increase their response - we as a nation are reluctant to call anyone a childe molester based on suspicion alone. The fourth group had neither awareness nor power, and couldn’t tacitly do anything.</p>
<p>
I love this statement. I love any statement that purports to be serious but uses the term “King Football”. Your statements about money are valid - those who were covering things up were undoubtedly motivated largely by money. But thinking that people love football so much that they will allow a child molester to run rampant to protect a football program? That is absurd.</p>
<p>I should note that while the NCAA definitely makes money off of popular football teams, the individuals on the boards that levy punishments are only financially tied to their own teams’ revenues… and those that have spoken publicly about the circumvention had (so far as a I have seen) not been in favor of the punishment you endorse.</p>
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Good to know that I can lose all credibility with a single word choice that apparently means something different to me than it does to you.</p>
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No, I think I have the enormity down better than you think, possibly better than you do if only because I am not looking at it outside as an observer. I know some of these people. I know people who work in those departments and organizations, who are horrified at what they missed. I know one of the principal witnesses. I know a couple of the victims personally, my wife knows a few more from her time teaching in the public schools. I have had close friends who have had their lives devastated by abuse, many of them the very “at-risk” types that you mention.</p>
<p>You think I “haven’t processed” this? You think I missed the “magnitude of the tragedy”?</p>
<p>I don’t.</p>
<p>
At whom is this directed?</p>
<p>“Group 2 is essentially limited to the Board of Trustees, which has been untouched by either criminal prosecution OR NCAA sanction.”</p>
<p>I disagree with this. Any NCAA sanction with material impact on the football program, like a bowl ban, kicks the trustees where it hurts – in the development office. If there were a football death penalty, that would hit them in the enrollment department as well as bringing development to its knees. Obviously, this is different from a personal sanction like being fired, but they aren’t untouched in their role as trustees.</p>
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</p>
<p>You simply refuse to acknowledge that the actions were all based to protect the football program. That attacking Penn State as a whole is a canard. What you want(ed) is to dissect the actions of a few (whoever you are inclined to include) and let business as usual go on. Actually, except for that ineffective slap on the wrist, you almost had your wish! </p>
<p>No matter how many times you will repeat that “Penn State” as a whole, realize that what “we” call for was a punishment confined to the … football program. Pure and simple as it is, nothing else than a FOOTBALL death penalty. To see how that would have worked, check SMU in Dallas. I hope you can appreciate the differences in the penalties! </p>
<p>I also hope you realize that the absence of a death penalty also deprived PSU to regain something it should have prized correctly, namely the possibility of regaining a semblance of dignity. Of course, the discourse of the Paterno family and the few goons that represent PSU has made that entirely impossible. </p>
<p>Rest assured that, without any evidence of real contrition (an opportunity that has been lost,) the public at large will never, ever, separate the infamy of the actions of a “few” and the fact that it happened at PSU, and for the longest of times.</p>
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</p>
<p>Yet, that is exactly what happened. What is absurd is that the leader of the football program was so determined to maintain his quasi-sainthood (and that is for white wearing football team) that he knew that any blemish would have deep repercussions. </p>
<p>He did, however, underestimate the capacity of the “people” to forgive sins, especially when brought forward before “being caught.” </p>
<p>Joe Paterno and others made a willing choice, and that was one that involved looking the other way, or conspire to hide the facts for as long as they could. Easy to understand when one reaches an advanced age. </p>
<p>How precious were those victories and the record of most winning coach? Priceless, one might say! Although the price paid by innocent children is hard to measure.</p>
<p>Sandusky may have been a sick man. Those criminals, starting with Joe Pa, representing both the university and the football program (and perhaps the Commonwealth), and who protected and coddled him, have no such excuse. Frankly, I think they should have abolished the football program for a minimum of ten years, or a period long enough so that the new students, faculty, and program “knew not Pharoah”.</p>
<p>Cosmic: The fact that you personally know people associated with this tragedy actually makes it more difficult for me to understand your point of view. Punishing the obvious people in this case makes things neat and tidy. There is a beginning and an end to criminal proceedings along with the press coverage that accompanies these types of cases. Memories fade and life goes on with new stories occupying the spotlight. I think what many of us are saying is that the enormity of this tragedy is so great that this is just not sufficient to “right” this particular “wrong”. For a community that was supposed to be so united and strong, how could the abuse of some of it’s most vulnerable members go so unnoticed for so long? I think the answer to that question might be that the community was united and strong in the name of FOOTBALL, at the expense of things that others would consider a priority.</p>
<p>My own view is that the Penn State community as a whole shared in the glory of it’s football program for many years. It should now share equally in the pain that was bestowed upon it by those that the community itself heralded as heroes and held up as role models. </p>
<p>The adjectives of “cowardly” and “unforgivable” that I used to describe the acts of abuse were not directed to you cosmic. You are entitled to your opinion and i don’t make it a habit of personally attacking those who disagree with me.</p>
<p>It’s not just that the Penn State community shared in the glory of the football program. But rather the governing body of the University chose these criminals as the university’s highest representatives.</p>
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</p>
<p>Yes. Obviously. And BTW, they were right. None of them is spending time with Bruno.</p>
<p>ETA – You KNOW some of the victims? And you still defend the men who sheltered Sandusky? smh</p>
<p>so cosmicfish, if you don’t think they knowingly abetted a sexual predator, what DO you think they were doing? </p>
<p>imho, they closed their eyes as tight as they could, denial works like that, and thought these boys were collateral damage, disposable kids who were after all, getting something from it. maybe it wasn’t really that bad, they surmised…yes, that’s how I think they thought. Especially PSU’s president who given his field of expertise really had to know.</p>
<p>You?</p>
<p>“There is STILL Paterno stuff there, but it’s NOT the university’s doing. It’s posters in town, and shirts people wear, and bumper stickers. And (gag), where they removed the statue, there’s all this tribute ***** people have put up.”</p>
<p>That’s what my son reported after attending his first Penn State football game a few weeks ago. The mind boggles.</p>
<p>They still worship…I mean, study…in the Joe Pa library. (University doing…)</p>
<p>Settlements have been made with 26 abuse victims. 26–the mind boggles.
Six additional cases are still pending.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2013-10-28/sandusky-scandal-update-penn-state-pays-$597-million-26-young-men-sexual-abuse”>http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2013-10-28/sandusky-scandal-update-penn-state-pays-$597-million-26-young-men-sexual-abuse</a></p>
<p>Penn State expects insurance is going to cover most of the $597 million cost. Is that realistic? Will the insurance companies pay without protest?</p>
<p>HARRISBURG, Pa. – HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) Penn State said Monday it is paying $59.7 million to 26 young men over claims of child sexual abuse at the hands of former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky.</p>
<p>The university said it had concluded negotiations that have lasted about a year.</p>
<p>The school said 23 deals are fully signed and three are agreements in principle. The school faces six other claims, and the university says it believes some do not have merit while others may produce settlements.</p>
<p>Xiggi has the correct number. Most of this happened in August.
[Penn</a> State settles with 25 Jerry Sandusky victims; lawyer says university verifying stories | Jerry Sandusky Scandal | CentreDaily.com](<a href=“http://www.centredaily.com/2013/08/28/3758679/penn-state-settles-with-25-jerry.html]Penn”>http://www.centredaily.com/2013/08/28/3758679/penn-state-settles-with-25-jerry.html)</p>
<p>Such blatant extortion. Penn State didn’t molest those kids, Sandusky did.</p>
<p>Pocket change.</p>
<p>[Penn</a> State football is a $53 million gravy boat we all slosh in | PennLive.com](<a href=“http://blog.pennlive.com/davidjones/2012/07/penn_state_football_is_a_53_mi.html]Penn”>Penn State football is a $53 million gravy boat we all slosh in - pennlive.com)</p>