<p>yes, tom, not picking on PSU here but the set-up at most colleges, but really do any of us understand how independent and self-monitoring they are from the regular law enforcement principles and involvement?
SHOULD universities have a separate police force?
Conflict of interest to me.</p>
<p>
Ohiomom- McQueary may have wrongly fallen into thinking the TV show Law and Order = real life. Where in the shows 1st segment the eyewitness makes a report never to be called upon again. Every season there is at least one show where the criminal is freely walking around causing mayhem while everyone and their grandmamas dog knows hes gulity.</p>
<p>performer’s mom–</p>
<p>I believe that’s why the FBI comes in to investigate when there are issues with the administrators who the local police report to.</p>
<p>Perhaps the FBI should be investigating at Penn State if the direct reports for the Penn State police department, and it is a police department, are the ones who are under investigation. </p>
<p>I recognize there are tensions and whatnot with having local police enforce campus issues. But, there shouldn’t be. The law is the law. In places where the law becomes too ambiguous for one or another institution, we end up with these kinds of issues. JMO</p>
<p>^^ I don’t watch the show, but isn’t it a police officer or detective who interviews the witness? I mean, I’m pretty sure everyone knows that’s what should happen if you witness a rape.</p>
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<p>I’m not even talking about his legal obligation or who he told and when and whether he followed up. I say he didn’t do enough by allowing Sandusky to still use PSU facilities, represent them at events and be involved in filming training videos with young boys. If Paterno didn’t have the power to get that done, then he should have quit coaching and resigned from the board of Second Mile. If he was powerful enough to refuse to retire, he was powerful enough to see that at least some of these things didn’t happen.</p>
<p>Well, poet, I am aware of many, many times where the law (capital L) was not enforced on a campus, even when the Campus Police was called and involved. (I won’t bore you and others here with the stories, unless you wish me to.)
It seems that they operate with their own code of law to me. and it does wonders for the attitudes and moral development of the students.
Yes, I agree, the law is the law (both capital L), and should be on campuses, as well.</p>
<p>I am also aware the local Police definitely look the other way when they break up HS drinking parties, as well.
Few investigations there, few prosecutions of adults on premises who are technically liable, can be sued, too… Not until someone gets killed in a car accident- THEN the community goes bonkers!</p>
<p>But I digress-
And, generally, I have read that complaints of legal misbehavior on campuses are handled internally, and often fruitlessly.</p>
<p>So much for transparency and access to due process…</p>
<p>(my nick-name, which I do not mind, is “the anticipator” LOL)</p>
<p>I have a friend who is very connected to NCAA football and is also a lawyer. Here is what he wrote:</p>
<p>"It is horrible. A great University and a reputable football team and athletic program that for decades has done things the right way. </p>
<p>Paterno’s an old-timer who is probably very uncomfortable around this (he’s Catholic after all, sex . . . and with children?), who when informed, kicked the can down the road by reporting it to the Athletic Director. One has to wonder if he ever followed up to see what was being done or did he just bury his head in the sand. The perpetrator is a long-time former assistant coach; did he ever call him? Did he have a moral responsibility to call the police? Probably. But as with any institution, there is a tendency to try to protect itself and deal with embarrassing situations internally. It will be interesting to get all the information of how the report was handled, what investigation was conducted, why it took so long to bring charges, etc. </p>
<p>One also has to wonder why the young graduate assistant coach McQueary–now an assistant coach, who did not coach during the Nebraska game allegedly because of death threats, the one who went into the football locker room and heard the wet slapping sound and rounded the corner and saw Sandusky sodomizing the 11 year old boy–did not yell at Sandusky or grab a chair and run into the shower if he was scared for his own personal safety, and try to stop it. Instead he goes home, later talks about what he saw with his dad and doesn’t go report it to Paterno until the next day. I imagine we are going to discover a big variance in what Paterno said was told to him by McQueary and what McQueary will say he told Paterno. </p>
<p>To add to the madness, I received an email that cited a news story that said they are also investigating whether Sandusky was pimping some of the kids to others. Also the district attorney for the county where Penn State is located disappeared a few months after he started his investigation and in his car parked near a river they found a cell phone, laptop case. They later discovered the computer, with a ruined hard drive, down the river a ways from his car. His body has never been found. Probably just a coincidence, but no suicide note was found and his friends and family all say he was happy and loved his job. On his home computer they allegedly found that he had been googling how to destoy a hard drive. So the plot may or may not thicken. Sad for the victims, several of whom never would have been abused if the smart adults in the room had done the right thing. "</p>
<p>Nothing new, but sort of an insider’s thoughts.</p>
<p>Just getting caught up after being out all afternoon. Looks like there must have been a few fireworks here this afternoon… missed all that.</p>
<p>
Best post of the day!! LOL</p>
<p>
Sounds like a description of survivor guilt, where there is a strong tendency to wonder what they could have done differently, more, better, etc. </p>
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</p>
<p>Ohiomom-
I give credit to Bogney, who seems to be doing a far better job of addressing these questions. They are fair questions. I just think it is reasonable to think they led McQueary to believe that it was being investigated, even if he was not asked to give another direct statement at the time. Maybe he did later think he should make a call to police outside PSU, but he would not be able to describe the victim (he saw him from “behind”, right?) so may have convinced himself he had nothing further to offer. Again, merely speculating, but its a possibility. Tututaxi’s post 1882 is another possibility, as is :
</p>
<p>I had lunch today with a friend who sounded like a Paterno apologist. I disagree with her position. We both agree that McQueary did not necessarily make the best choice, but he made one that was a tolerable one.</p>
<p>She used to teach HS a long time ago. She was asked by the principal of the HS to change the grades of some players who she failed. She refused, and ultimately quit. She was never able to get a teaching job in that community again. Was told off the record by other school districts that wanted to hire her that the principal had essentially blackballed her. Doing the right thing can have repercussions. That said, totally understand that it is still the right thing to do.</p>
<p>“Maybe he did later think he should make a call to police outside PSU, but he would not be able to describe the victim (he saw him from “behind”, right?)”</p>
<p>The Grand Jury report says both Sandusky and the victim looked at McQueary in the eyes. McQueary’s testimony.</p>
<p>This is getting worse and worse…isn’t a judge supposed to recuse themselves if there is a conflict of interest??
[Judge</a> Who Set Unsecured Bail For Jerry Sandusky Is a Second Mile Volunteer](<a href=“Judge Who Set Unsecured Bail For Jerry Sandusky Is A Second Mile Volunteer [UPDATE]”>Judge Who Set Unsecured Bail For Jerry Sandusky Is A Second Mile Volunteer [UPDATE])</p>
<p>That is why there are whistle-blower protections, but they are applicable only if one follows the official channels, of course. It is darn hard to report your boss or expose your institution to damaging information, period.</p>
<p>Frankly, jym, not that your friend had the means or the interest, but she had some cause for a libel or discrimination suit, but she would have needed to take the case to an independent authority who would not be biased, for these circles are pretty tight. as we are seeing.
The NCAA does seem look the other way when it comes to these academic “issues”, which I assume are run pretty rampant.</p>
<p>“She used to teach HS a long time ago. She was asked by the principal of the HS to change the grades of some players who she failed. She refused, and ultimately quit. She was never able to get a teaching job in that community again. Was told off the record by other school districts that wanted to hire her that the principal had essentially blackballed her.”</p>
<p>Wow! Strange she would be a Paterno apologist after that experience. How open minded of her.</p>
<p>As inappropriate as it may seem here, I am speculating that the CIRCLE is much bigger than we now know. I cannot explain so many mistakes and inconsistencies and moral indifferences any other way.</p>
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</p>
<p>The NCAA’s main purpose is to squeeze every dollar out of sports. Everything else is secondary.</p>
<p>And I still believe that getting rid of Sandusky, letting him pay the piper publicly, could have been played very much to the football program’s advantage if it had been handle properly and quickly nd openly.
So this makes me wonder if “they” were all in deep together somehow, so as to give S a lot of power.</p>
<p>Anyway, I am waiting to learn the truth, the facts as they come out, as far as they do. And hoping to understand the legalities along the way.</p>
<p>performersmom,
The person who told my friend that the principal had said something that was blackballing her was telling her off the record. And my friend was leaving to go to grad school and pursue another career. So she let it go. She was not much younger at the time than McQueary was in 2002.</p>
<p>[Joe</a> Paterno | “J. Edgar” Movie Trailer [Penn State Scandal 2011] - YouTube](<a href=“Joe Paterno | "J. Edgar" Movie Trailer [Penn State Scandal 2011] - YouTube”>Joe Paterno | "J. Edgar" Movie Trailer [Penn State Scandal 2011] - YouTube)!</p>
<p>Yes, I definitely made allusion to such a caveat-
Being “right” is not always easy or worthwhile pursuing.
Life’s lessons are not always pretty, but glad she has moved on, and hope she has had success since.
But maybe she does regret her actions a bit, given her apologist for JP stance? Or is she just saying she has learned firsthand what kinds of consequences can keep us from doing the right thing?</p>
<p>Many people let a lot of things go because of the repercussions and always have. Even if you are switching fields and careers, the notoriety of blowing the whistle can make it difficult to get a field in ANY career, despite what folks say and particularly if the person ends up being a witness in legal proceedings.</p>
<p>It is definitely something to weigh in choosing what to do. Being asked to change grades for people who didn’t earn them is wrong. Don’t think that’s the same as viewing an act of violence against a young child and continuing to see the perpetrator constantly around young children and being held up as an authority figure to them.</p>
<p>performersmom-
I dont think that her opinion about Paterno had anything to do with the stance she took 40 yrs ago with the student athletes in HS. That came up later in the conversation after I reminded her of the risk I took in grad school by expressing my concern for, and ultimately getting out of doing a procedure that I felt was unethical. Her stance was that she thought They should have let Paterno play out the season and then retire. I disagree.</p>