<p>For the Ivies.</p>
<p>"1. (tie) Princeton 4.9 </p>
<ol>
<li><p>(tie) Yale 4.9 </p></li>
<li><p>(tie) Harvard 4.9 </p></li>
<li><p>Columbia 4.7 </p></li>
<li><p>Cornell 4.6 </p></li>
<li><p>Penn 4.5 </p></li>
<li><p>(tie) Dartmouth 4.4 </p></li>
<li><p>(tie) Brown 4.4
"</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Take it all with a grain of salt tho cuz “prestige” aka Peer Assessment is based a lot on the overall University, not neccessarily undergrad.</p>
<p>.6 separating all the Ivies and .2 separating Penn and Columbia. That’s really significant (especially since most administrators who fill out the thing just read the name and put a number by it). Do you really think that Dartmouth and Brown are lower than Cornell?</p>
<p>lol Venkat-- it’s 0.6 on a 5 point scale… if it were out of 100 this would be a 12 point difference- keep in mind these schools represent the top echelon of american education too and even so it would then score from 100-88. </p>
<p>As for Cornell, historically Cornell has been much much much more prolific in its research and education than either Brown or Dartmouth. At the graduate level there’s no competition- Cornell wins hands down (maybe because Dartmouth has no graduate programs and Brown only has a medical scool). Cornell only recently became the “safety ivy” which I don’t think it deserves to be called. Chances are more people know Cornell than either Dartmouth or Brown too. </p>
<p>To play devil’s advocate with your statement, about administrators just filling out the thing and putting a number— keep in mind these are filled out by the people who DO matter when they are evaluating graduate school applications or whatnot. </p>
<p>Realistically? Wharton grads are up there with H if you go into Finance- or rather it should be said that Harvard grads are equal to Wharton grads when it comes to finance. And frankly, after HYP at this point in time- it hardly matters whether Columbia or Penn is more prestigious because you have enough ppl who will argue arduously for each.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not quite correct on the ugrad populations. Per US News, Penn has 9,841 undergrads, and Columbia has 7,319, making those HLS numbers a bit more proportional.</p>
<p>Also, Penn has long been known as a great pre-med school (having the oldest medical school in the US, which also happens to be one of the top 3, right on the same campus doesn’t hurt). And I don’t know if you noticed, but that survey has the following astonishing comment in its Penn entry: “Penn’s medical school <a href=“not%20one%20of%20our%20survey%20schools”>b</a>** has the highest percentage of Penn undergrads in six years” [emphasis added]. Excluding a top-3 medical school from the survey, to the obvious disadvantage of Penn undergrads, kind of invalidates it a bit, don’t you think?</p>
<p>And with respect to IBanking, well–find me a ranking anywhere in the world that doesn’t put Wharton at #1 in Finance.</p>
<p>Bottom line, as you’ve indicated, is that both Penn and Columbia are terrific schools by any measure, and both provide equally valid top-notch undergraduate experiences, albeit different experiences. And both are clearly in the midst of dynamic changes and on upward trajectories. So it’s sorta silly to start claiming that one is clearly superior to the other in general terms, or that one is more clearly bound for a level of glory and prestige above the other.</p>
<p>Actually, there are some ranking systems that don’t place Wharton at #1 in Finance. Of course, recruiters don’t necessarily listen to those rankings.</p>
<p>Dear truazn, </p>
<p>shut up please</p>
<p>thank you</p>
<ul>
<li>bipolarbear
Columbia College '09</li>
</ul>
<p>::runs away with tail in between legs::</p>
<p>Anyway, he’s probably right, have fun choosing OP. =P</p>
<p>(some of this text is from another UPenn vs CU post I made elsewhere)</p>
<p>VERY similar schools. Among the largest of the Ivies. They have similar total populations, roughly equal endowments, shared institutional leanings towards their grad schools (unspoken but true). Both located are in large cities. </p>
<p>Academically, they are roughly balanced. Penn is slightly stronger in social sciences, Columbia is slightly stronger in humanities. It depends on the specific program. Penn’s materially better in economics, romance languages, demography, psychology, US history,anthropology. Columbia wins in poli sci, art history, intl relations, European history. The schools are about even in English/literature, philosophy. Net, net they are even.</p>
<p>Columbia leads Penn in engineering and the hard sciences (except in bioengineering (Penn is Top 5 in the nation), chem engineering and materials sciences/nanotechnology). Penn has Wharton which has no remotely close peer in the entire Ivy League. Penn’s Nursing school is #3 in the US, CU’s isnt ranked in the top ten. </p>
<p>However, since you cant major in 20 diff subjects, the relevant fact here is that Penn has an advantage in its interdisciplinary programs and research via its One University policy. At Penn, you can take classes in any program, grad or undergrad. The entire school is open to you.</p>
<p>I don’t think CU is anywhere near as academically flexible. Conversely, Columbia’s Core provides an outstanding intellectual underpinning for its students in key intellectual and literary aspects of Western Civ. There aren’t too many structured programs like it in the US. While you can replicate it by taking similar courses at Penn (or other schools), CU’s is nicely packaged and integrated for you.</p>
<p>Grad schools = match point
Penn wins in Medicine (huge margin), Nursing (huge), Business (large), Dental (small)
Columbia wins in Education (huge), Social Work, (huge), Law (small), Engineering (medium)
Roughly a tie in Arts & Sciences; Journalism = Annenberg; Architecture = Penn Design
Can’t directly compare Penn Veterinary, or Columbia SIPA, Public Health or Arts</p>
<p>Other academic items = while CU has a HUGE number of Nobel scholars, the more relevant metric is National Academy membership. Those are awarded by the US National Academies in humanities, the sciences, engineering and medicine. As a result, they are more reflective of the scope of intellectual endeavor and - since they are awarded more broadly based on individual merit vs “there can be only one winner in ______” Nobel style, they more reflect the academic credentials of a faculty. Here, Penn and Columbia are about equal among private schools.</p>
<p>Penn, however, gets the nod. It has more momentum, has placed better institutional bets in faculty recruitment, research initiatives and commitments to civic service. It?s come farther, faster than most peers and is showing signs of accelerating its gains within the ranks of higher education.</p>
<p>Socially, I agree with the posts here. Penn is more unified as a social body, with a very well manicured campus which is quite beautiful and varied in style. CU lacks a bit of this unity, primarily b/c of its greatest draw - the lure of Manhattan. Students gravitate away from he campus to NYC’s activities (when they can, since CU is quite demanding on student’s time). CU’s campus - although not at green and polished as Penn’s - is striking in it’s unified master plan of classical architecture.</p>
<p>Some of the comments on this post state CU is a bigger feeder to IB, grad schools et al. That’s complete non-sense. Wharton wins the IB battle hands down. Grad schools - pre med advising is superior at Penn. Pre law is better at CU. Re feeders, they are both balanced, and actually - I think - are actually Top 5 feeders to eachothers grad schools. Go figure.</p>
<p>The most important thing is that you visit both institutions. Go to the place where (i) you like the overall vibe, (ii) where you think you’ll get the best chance to grow intellectually. Life post college will sort itself out - you’ll be graduating from to immensely prestigious, research oriented universities. Opportunities for grad study or careers will come your way in abundance. Prestige will be about the same. </p>
<p>(BTW, prestige only really matters for the first one or two jobs you take AFTER graduate school. e.g., top law firms from Yale Law vs Duke Law; top priv equity shops from Stanford Business vs Cornell business; best residency programs from JHU vs Michigan. Even then, the prestige thing wears off 2-4 years out. Then what matters - as it should - is how you perform as a person)</p>
<p>Best of luck with your decision.</p>
<p>Um, I’d like to see the numbers that prove Columbia’s Law/Med placement is better than Penn’s, because I’m reasonably sure you’re flat wrong, particularly about the med admissions part. Penn is almost categorically considered the best ivy to go to if you’re a premed because of the strength of the advising, the preprofessional atmosphere, and placement rate. Also, Columbia’s Core curriculum almost sucks any tiny bit of academic freedom a premed might have by the time they fill their required courses and their major courses.</p>
<p>I prefer Columbia’s campus. I love neoclassical architecture and the brilliant use of space makes it <em>feel</em> bigger than Penn.</p>
<p>Additionally I think Columbia’s campus grounds are more well-maintained than Penn’s. Locust Walk is missing an absurd amount of bricks and is practically disintegrating as you get to superblock. The streetscape around there is also in advanced decay.</p>
<p>But that is inevitable when your facilities dept has to look after almost 300 acres as opposed to to Columbia’s 36…</p>
<p>(also this decaying infrastructure is planned to be fixed in the early phases of the eastward expansion master plan)</p>
<p>Anyway I’d rather go to Penn.</p>
<p>Hello, I’m not trying to engage in penn VS columbia conversation. I am seeking for people’s advice for my situation. I am accepted by both schools(and cornell but its fin aid package is not that good) and therefore caught in this dillemma.</p>
<p>I will start with some information about me. I am more math and science oriented person who does not really want to become professional engineer. I want to use my ability to think to apply into finance, business etc. If I go to wharton, i’m not sure what programs really involve intense thinking. On the other hand if I go to financial engineering at SEAS, i’m not sure how good that program is. In terms of grad studies, I want to go somewhere that can really train me well for a very well paid job. Can someone offer me some advice. Thanks!</p>
<p>My advice to epl_manutd is based on :</p>
<p>1) you like math and sciences
2) but you dont want to be a professional engineer
3) you instead want to study business</p>
<p>Assuming that you view the academic prestige the same between the schools (it is), and that they provide the same amounts of funding (if you need it), I say go to Penn. You can study engineering to satisfy your interest in math/science subjects, but Penn will allow you to take classes in all it’s other schools. You can take a large number of finance, marketing and strategy courses which will prepare you for future employment in the business world. You can also take lib arts classes in the College to satisfy other intellectual interests you have. The academic flexibility from Penn is the key for you.</p>
<p>You should also however make sure the environments are what you feel comfortable in. Talk to the students about the social life, advising and make sure you can grow personally at the school and in the respective cities. There’s nothing like a campus visit to help make up your mind.</p>
<p>Best of luck</p>
<p>As a Columbia College 2011’er who also considered wharton–</p>
<p>If you want to do engineering/finance = SEAS
If you know you want to do finance === Wharton by far </p>
<p>As a side note, a lot of SEAS grads go into medical school so if you’re considering a wider range of future employment other than Finance, Columbia SEAS is probably a better choice than Wharton. But when it comes to Finance jobs that you know you want 100% w/o doubt— Wharton can not be beat.</p>