<p>ive heard that there is a huge demand for athletes in the job market. infact sometimes they get paid more than your average college grad, because certain skills that athletes have, i.e team spirit, motivation, determination etc are unique.</p>
<p>Atheletes are the ideal car salesman.</p>
<p>“under-qualified” anything whether it is an athlete, URM or legacy is a relative term because no private school ever stated that they only take the students with the highest scores and grades but they take students with a range of skills, attributes and abilities. They also take into consideration Multiple Intelligences -the seven different ways to demonstrate intellectual ability. These include:
[ul]
[li]Visual/Spatial Intelligence the ability to perceive the visual. These learners tend to think in pictures and need to create vivid mental images to retain information. They enjoy looking at maps, charts, pictures, videos, and movies.</p>[/li]
<p>These skills include: puzzle building, reading, writing, understanding charts and graphs, a good sense of direction, sketching, painting, creating visual metaphors and analogies (perhaps through the visual arts), manipulating images, constructing, fixing, designing practical objects, interpreting visual images. </p>
<p>[li]Verbal/Linguistic Intelligence the ability to use words and language. These learners have highly developed auditory skills and are generally elegant speakers. They think in words rather than pictures. </p>[/li]
<p>These skills include: listening, speaking, writing, story telling, explaining, teaching, using humor, understanding the syntax and meaning of words, remembering information, convincing someone of their point of view, analyzing language usage.</p>
<p>[li]Logical/Mathematical Intelligence ability to use reason, logic and numbers. These learners think conceptually in logical and numerical patterns making connections between pieces of information. Always curious about the world around them, these learner ask lots of questions and like to do experiments. </p>[/li]
<p>These skills include: problem solving, classifying and categorizing information, working with abstract concepts to figure out the relationship of each to the other, handling long chains of reason to make local progressions, doing controlled experiments, questioning and wondering about natural events, performing complex mathematical calculations, working with geometric shapes</p>
<p>[li]** Bodily/Kinesthetic Intelligence **the ability to control body movements and handle objects skillfully. These learners express themselves through movement. They have a good sense of balance and eye-hand co-ordination. (e.g. ball play, balancing beams). Through interacting with the space around them, they are able to remember and process information. </p>[/li]
<p>These skills include: dancing, physical co-ordination, sports, hands on experimentation, using body language, crafts, acting, miming, using their hands to create or build, expressing emotions through the body</p>
<p>[li]Musical/Rhythmic Intelligence the ability to produce and appreciate music. These musically inclined learners think in sounds, rhythms and patterns. They immediately respond to music either appreciating or criticizing what they hear. Many of these learners are extremely sensitive to environmental sounds (e.g. crickets, bells, dripping taps). </p>[/li]
<p>These skills include: singing, whistling, playing musical instruments, recognizing tonal patterns, composing music, remembering melodies, understanding the structure and rhythm of music</p>
<p>[li]Interpersonal Intelligence the ability to relate and understand others. These learners try to see things from other people’s point of view in order to understand how they think and feel. They often have an uncanny ability to sense feelings, intentions and motivations. They are great organizers, although they sometimes resort to manipulation. Generally they try to maintain peace in group settings and encourage co-operation. They use both verbal (e.g. speaking) and non-verbal language (e.g. eye contact, body language) to open communication channels with others.</p>[/li]
<p>These skills include: seeing things from other perspectives (dual-perspective), listening, using empathy, understanding other people’s moods and feelings, counseling, co-operating with groups, noticing people’s moods, motivations and intentions, communicating both verbally and non-verbally, building trust, peaceful conflict resolution, establishing positive relations with other people.</p>
<p>[li]Intrapersonal Intelligence the ability to self-reflect and be aware of one’s inner state of being. These learners try to understand their inner feelings, dreams, relationships with others, and strengths and weaknesses.</p>[/li]
<p>These Skills include: Recognizing their own strengths and weaknesses, reflecting and analyzing themselves, awareness of their inner feelings, desires and dreams, evaluating their thinking patterns, reasoning with themselves, understanding their role in relationship to others
[/ul]</p>
<p>Colleges build classes which is why they feel a need for athletes, URMs and atheltes because it enhances the community in which they are trying to create.</p>
<p>An recuited athlete has but a lot of time an effort in becoming good at there sport especially sports that very rigerous (foootball, hockey) and and participate across seasons (swimming, track). They practice long hours and play when they aqre sick or injured.</p>
<p>Those that are recruited by the Ivies are definitely not in it for the money because they give no academic ar athletic scholarships. Those getting full rides ar powerhouse athletic schools must maintain some sort of gpa in order to maintain their eligibility as mandated by the NCAA. Some students know that through their athleticism it is the only way that they can get a decent college education. Many people who rag on athletes don’t take into consideration that their whole college future is riding on every game and meet they participant in because there is always the likelihood of getting injured and losing it all.</p>
<p>In addition, as someone previously mentioned, being an athlete has many transferrable skills; leadership, people management, team building, being a member of a team and working cooperatively with others to complete a task, motivation, being adept in group dynamics, problem solving all are needed if one is going to be successful in the world of work.</p>
<p>as hard as it might be for some people on these boards to accept, the fact is that academic achievement in high school is only one measure of successand potential success. A good university strives to have a diverse mix of talents, interests, inclinations, ethnicities, backgrounds, etc. And so what if a school needs to adapt its admissions standards (as measured by numbers) to make sure it’s got a good mix of students.</p>
<p>in the real world, the fact is that “success” isn’t determined by how well you do in high school – for heaven sake. </p>
<p>and you gotta wonder if there’s some downside to these ivy league schools whose admission standards are so tough that they only accept kids who stay hyperfocused and grade-driven during their teenage years.</p>
<p>my counsin—division 1 hockey player at DARTMONTH</p>
<p>a decent job tho</p>
<p>It’s also relative to your personal experience. </p>
<p>To all those who are against athletes getting special treatment: How many of you have played a sport competitively? </p>
<p>I’m sure the vast majority of students who have played a sport competitively (doesn’t matter if they were good or not) respect and value other athletes more. </p>
<p>“A good university strives to have a diverse mix of talents, interests, inclinations, ethnicities, backgrounds, etc. And so what if a school needs to adapt its admissions standards (as measured by numbers) to make sure it’s got a good mix of students.”</p>
<p>YES! COlleges look to fill their freshman CLASS. they want a class that is the most well-rounded when put together. this does not necessarily mean that they pick the most well-rounded students, because then the class would be relatively mediocre in everything. rather, they pick some well-rounded students and others who are talented in one area but still not one-dimensional and put all that together into a well-rounded class.</p>
<p>“‘under-qualified’ anything whether it is an athlete, URM or legacy is a relative term because no private school ever stated that they only take the students with the highest scores and grades but they take students with a range of skills, attributes and abilities”</p>
<p>That is very true. Highly selective colleges do not say that you need a certain SAT Score or GPA to get into their schools.</p>
<p>yeah haha kids trying to get 800 sat ii, and than linemen trying to squat 800 lbs</p>
<p>You all say athletics take talent and skill, but being a legacy or URM is just something you are born with. I would say being a URM who scores fairly well, maybe not as well as the rich white kid from Boston, but still well, gets a high GPA and participates in some extracurriculars deserves a little extra recognition. They probably had a harder time getting there, not because of lack of intelligence but lack of confidence, help, respect, and expectations.
I do think there is a place for athletes, I just wish it didn’t have to compete with smart kids. Maybe the good colleges could find a way to just separate it completely-athletes are admitted separately and have mostly separate classes and a separate diploma, unless they choose to go through the normal admissions process. But, maybe it’s fair to cut htem a little slack–not 500 points–because their coach is less likely to be understanding if they can’t practice hours every evening or need a night off to finish a paper than the Quiz Bowl or debate team or environmental club or even band.</p>
<p>Cynthia R said: “I do think there is a place for athletes, I just wish it didn’t have to compete with smart kids.”</p>
<p>I’m going to hope that Cynthia was rushed or very tired when she wrote that.</p>
<p>Exactly, Cynthia! Being an URM takes <b>tons</b> of work. You people think it is easy just <b>being</b> an URM?</p>
<p>By the way, separate diploma = good idea.</p>
<p>I’ve gotta agree with some of the folks in this thread. Being an awesome athlete takes lots of work and dedication. I’ve seen some of the workouts our varsity cross country team has had to go through, trust me its not cake walk by any stretch - near the end a lot of people are on the verge of puking/have already puked. </p>
<p>Its like playing an instrument, you can have talent, but talent will only take you so far, when you’re competing with the best, talent is a given, and when you’re applying to a d1 one school you will be competing with the best ;).</p>
<p>However, on the other hand, being an URM or legacy is innate, you don’t have to do anything for it. And URM != poor/disadvantaged. There are rich URMs (who still get the perks associated with their race) out there. </p>
<p>I completely understand giving poorer/disadvantaged people a chance, but that should include poor asians/whites as well! Not just poor URMs!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You know, it’s funny that you should mention that example. </p>
<p>I have exactly a 4.0 GPA, and exactly 1500 SAT (1500 old SAT, and retook it to get a 2250 new SAT…the exact equivalent). I play a sport (baseball), but not well enough to be recruited or even considered for it; I’ll most likely wind up just playing intramurals for fun in college. I play the piano also. So I perfectly fit your mold for the “even-handed” student. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, I still have nothing against athletes who get recruited despite a mediocre academic record. Maybe the inequity of the situation just hasn’t registered with me yet, but I really don’t care. I mean, personally, I’d love for whatever college I wind up at to be good at sports. </p>
<p>I dunno, as you can probably tell, I don’t have a particularly strong stance on this issue. I just don’t want anyone, in their anger, to disparage the commitment or achievements of high-caliber athletes as somehow “less” than the achievements of high-caliber students, that’s all.</p>
<p>Jimmy,</p>
<p>I suspect the reason you don’t have that strong stance is because you have the self-confidence in your abilities and talents to know that your future success will not be defined by the name of the college you attend but by your own accomplishments.</p>
<p>You are also a positive person, focusing on your future and moving toward it, rather than being resentful of someone else’s abilities and opportunities.</p>
<p>I’m curious as to whether you feel any more strongly about URM’s and legacies than you do about recruited athletes.</p>
<p>"Cynthia R said: “I do think there is a place for athletes, I just wish it didn’t have to compete with smart kids.”</p>
<p>I’m going to hope that Cynthia was rushed or very tired when she wrote that."</p>
<p>I did also say “unless they choose to compete in the regular admissions process” meaning, if they do have the scores and GPA to be considered, great. They should get bonus points for athletics in the same way another student would for an extracurricular that is a similar commitment. Otherwise, it is comparing two completely different things to choose between the kid who is a star athlete but average student and the wonderful student who does other ecs.
I’m not resentful of anyone, I didn’t want to go to an Ivy. I was accepted at all the schools I wanted to go to, and I’m quite happy with my college choice. I don’t think it is fair for a college that is recognized for its academics to select mediocre students, esp. over excellent students. URMs don’t bother me because I think they probably had enough negatives in their lives to deserve a small boost. Even they shouldn’t be accepted unless they can compete–they could just get a few extra points.
And, I’m a poor white girl and I don’t really have any opinion about whether poor people, without considering race, should benefit from affirmative action. We have less opportunity, but we also rarely have to deal with prejudice.</p>
<p>Right. It’s not like URM’s are “recruited” in the same (dare I say) outrageous way athletes are.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sorry Cynthia, but you tend to forget that at the end of the day college is a business. The highly desired recruited athlete will be asked by coaches their prospective school to apply ED as the coach wants to guarantee that they have that player on their team. Powerhouse sports schools definitely want to know that the tight end, wide reciever, foward etc will be comitted to their school. Some (very few) are admitted during the RD process .</p>
<p>The NCAA even has threshold GPA requirements for recruited athletes.
<a href=“http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/membership_svcs/eligibility-recruiting/faqs/initialeligibility.html[/url]”>http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/membership_svcs/eligibility-recruiting/faqs/initialeligibility.html</a>
Colleges are very aware of the process and and willnot risk losing their eligibility by trying to circumvent the system. Even when you look at admissions requirements on a college website they will state *suggested coursed * thus leaving some latitude.</p>
<p>The whole concept of sending students likely letters (stating that your chances of being admitted to “X” college/university is very likely) was created for this purpose than was expanded to include “non-athletes”.</p>
<p>Dizzymom,</p>
<p>I appreciate your positive comments. </p>
<p>
I feel slightly stronger about URMs and legacies than I do about recruited athletes, but still don’t mind the current system regarding URMs/legacies. Ideally I would support affirmative action based on socioeconomic status and not race, but I understand the arguments for both sides and hopefully, by the time my kids go through the college admissions process, the racially-levelling (is that word? =) effects of AA will have occurred and it will no longer be needed.</p>
<p>Okay perhaps I am biased, as I am getting recruited. But keep in mind that most kids going to Ivy league schools for athletics are kids going there for the education, otherwise they would go someplace that offers scholarships, has easier courses, and has a better team. Lets face it, we can all do the work at Harvard or Yale, its just that getting in. And to get in you need a hook, I don’t see why you are mad at athletes who have that. Its much harder to be a sucessful athlete than a sucessful student. Imagine if you had someone hitting you, pulling at your test and yelling at you while you took the SAT, wouldn’t be easy to get a high score because someone is physically trying to stop you from doing your job. Welcome to the world of an athlete, people are physcially trying to stop us from doing our job, its a lot harder than memorizing math formulas. I think they deserve to go if they are skilled enought.</p>
<p>I just took the time to look this info up for another thread.</p>
<p>Princeton class of 2009</p>
<p>42% minorities offered admission (only 32% accepting the offer, perhaps the rest are going to Harvard and Yale?)</p>
<p>13.9 percent recruited athletes</p>
<p>9.9% legacies</p>
<p>I think the numbers speak for themselves.</p>