<p>I checked out the Apple education store online, and the discount for students didn’t seem like much. Is it better if you visit a brick and mortar store?</p>
<p>The best deal is in the summer. You get 10% off and a free iPod. That’s about the best you can do with Apple. In general, the college discount in the summer is better than our corporate discount. They have the hot products and they don’t need to discount much.</p>
<p>I like MacConnection and have bought many computers there (it’s online only). They tend to have cash back rebates & don’t charge sales tax. Ended up being similar to the Apple Educational deals last summer. We bought S’s through Apple Ed. because I wanted the free iTouch (which went missing in less that a week). Without the iTouch, MacConnection was a better price.</p>
<p>I guess I’m in the minority here, but I feel that Mac charges way too much for what you actually end up getting. Take the graphics card in the MacBook Pro for example. In the 13" which STARTS at $1200, you get an NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics processor which is…well…if you play games even casually, very sub-par. That graphics card can barely handle the Sims 3. Also, 250GB 5400RPM hard-drive isn’t what I would expect for $1200. I would at least expect a 320GB 7200RPM for that inflated price. It also only has two USB ports…which is OK, I guess. The processor also leaves a lot to be desired since, according to the mac website, it only goes up to a 2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo blah blah blah. Okay, I’m done ranting. I just think Mac should either give us more for our money or have more honest prices. On the plus side, the Macbook Pro has a back-lit keyboard. :)</p>
<p>If you want more for your money, go with another brand. I suggest:</p>
<p>ASUS. You can get them for a good price at xoticpc.com. My notebook of choice is the 14" N81VP-D2 which starts at $1060 and goes down by 3% if you pay by check, money order or pay pal. For a $1060 bare bones model you get an Intel Core Duo T9 2.8GHz processor, an ATI HD4650 1,024MB PCI-Express GDDR3 graphics card, 4GB RAM, a 320GB 7200RPM hard drive, a case, a mouse, Windows 7, 5 USB ports, an HDMI port, and an ESATA port (there are other ports but these are the stand-outs). I love ASUS products.</p>
<p>Other good notebooks include the Lenovo line of ThinkPads (the IdeaPads are okay for a student too). Dell Vostros are nice. A Sager would be a good one if your student also likes to play games after (s)he is done with their school work, of course. 
Sony Vaios are good too but in order to prevent over spending, I would get an older model from newegg.com.</p>
<p>Again, sorry about the Mac rant, I just hate to see equal or better companies get ignored.</p>
<p>Our family also is into PCs & has never been an apple/mac family. In general, we feel you can get a LOT more for the money & find a LOT more people who are PC friendly than mac/apple.</p>
<p>I LOVE buying from Costco. With their Concierge program, you get an extra year free warranty & tech support. If you charge it on AmEx, you get an ADDITIONAL year as well. We just got my son’s nearly 3 year old Sony laptop totally refunded because he had chronic problems with it that Sony couldn’t repair after several attempts (the refund included the $103 trouble-shooting charge from Sony and the entire price of the laptop, which S sent back). S was happy & able to buy a laptop he’s much happier with (we think for the $ he got, he bought a light netbook & a regular laptop). He has decided that Sony’s are overrated.</p>
<p>D bought a HP laptop & was happy that it converts to a Wacom tablet. She’s now had it for nearly a year & isn’t sure how happy she continues to be with it. We’ll see about it this holiday season–probably needs to be de-bugged (she tends to pick up viruses). If it is still causing problems, we’ll see if the AmEx warranty will help get this repaired for her.</p>
<p>For us, the STUDENT needs to select the laptop that will meet student’s needs. D is a creative kid who loves sketching & wanted that capability so she bought a machine that is able to provide that. S is in EE & wanted to be able to load large programs for his EE work, so he bought a machine that would do that & now loves having a netbook to take with him so he can leave the heavier laptop home.</p>
<p>my brother was going to get a mac but he decided to get a high end Dell a couple months ago.
However the Dell has developed an issue with a few keys ( but not the keyboard my electrical engineer brother said it is something else)
Dell said the turn around time to fix it will be two months.</p>
<p>When I have needed to have my Mac fixed under warranty, it has been a few days.</p>
<p>Turn around times for repairs can vary. My friend’s D had to have her MAC shipped wherever they told her several times & she was without it for prolonged periods of time (much more than a few days). For S’s Sony, likewise, he was without it while Sony was evaluating how long it would take to repair as well as during the attempted (failed) repairs. He ended up buying himself a netbook so he could continue to work & be connected during the repair attempts (had been eyeing the netbook & really liked the lighter weight anyway). I guess bottom line, you can ask about general length of time for servicing when you’re shopping for computers, but it may be significantly longer than promised (or they may not have any idea).</p>
<p>In general, hubby used to have problems with Dell monitors when he was purchasing them for work. More recently, he has found their monitors to be fine. He still is not a huge fan of Dell & we haven’t settled on a particular PC brand but none of us are too comfortable or familiar with Mac/Apple.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>We had two MacBook Pros for repair. Turnaround time was one week from when we dropped it off at the store. They will do some repairs in the store and I’d assume that turnaround is much faster (as in while you wait) for those.</p>
<p>My Dell XPS laptop required a keyboard replacement. The keyboard that came with it had a design flaw (you had to hit the space bar right in the middle) and they (Best Buy) replaced it. I think that it took about 1.5 to 2 weeks.</p>
<p>Today I spent about five hours at work wrestling with a Windows problem. I installed our antivirus program and it shut down my machine. It took me two hours to get my machine back to being usable with about 25 reboots, poking around services, killing processes, booting to safe mode, etc. I then tried installing the AV program again and it again trashed my machine. So I removed it and reinstalled my old AV software. The AV and antispyware (Windows Defender) do noticeably slow the machine down and require frequent downloads of new virus signatures. It’s interesting that the AV software is a 110 MB download. Mac OS X ships on one CD or about 650 MB. It’s odd that an antivirus program for Windows is 1/6th the size of Mac OS X.</p>
<p>I asked a few other people around the office if they had similar problems and they reported similar nightmares. They just called the IT guy to fix it and he eventually did. I don’t know if he’d be able to fix it on my system as I’m running Vista while everyone else is running XP. I would much rather just have a 27 inch iMac. BTW, we’re a Linux shop for development and Mac OS X’s underlying OS is very similar.</p>
<p>My friend’s MacBook could’nt be serviced locally & had to be shipped (I believe to India) several times before it finally worked properly. It would be nice if it could be repaired while you waited or at least within a week, as yours were. Sounds like you have had some very positive experiences with Macs. We have never used Vista, just XP (tho my dad has Vista). The XP has worked OK for all of us so far.</p>
<p>It’s true that there are a lot of attacks on PC software–moreso than MAC/Apples.</p>
<p>Vista was a bit of a disaster and I wouldn’t recommend it for laptop buyers but Windows 7 is quite good. It still has the same problem with viruses though. There are some other compatibility issues related to 32-bit/64-bit but most users won’t run into them. We use redundancy for critical systems - so my system is their backup.</p>
<p>Apple does provide an antivirus program. My understanding is that there are only two viruses in their database. My guess on Windows is that the number of viruses is in six figures. The value of Apple products includes the Apple Store which provides the luxury of personal service. If you don’t live near one, then the value of that service is lessened.</p>
<p>We have eight laptops altogether and they all still work. They oldest is from 2000. We can use those for backups or throwaways or loaners if needed.</p>
<p>Problems … yes, that was the deciding factor in our PC vs. Mac analysis for our college bound kiddo. What problems could I talk him through over the phone? For me, Mac issues are more intuitive as opposed to what I’ve encountered on the PC (gotta get up to your elbows in registry, spyware, etc).</p>
<p>A semester in, DS is a Mac convert. He bought an HDMI cable to connect his MacBook Pro to his TV. This was helpful as he was suffering though the downtime of getting mono, but not wanting to sleep the day away … but also in watching classes video presentations.</p>
<p>Does anybody here have any experience with (or an opinion about) Dell Studio 14z? It is a laptop without a DVD drive so it is almost as light as a 13-inch Macbook, I think. We purchased it in a hurry at the beginning of this semester for our child when his computer all of a sudden broke down and at that time we had not had much time before we bought it. It has Vista and MS Office pre-installed. I also wonder whether we should buy an external DVD for this laptop and try to install Windows 7 during winter break. Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>The more I think about it, the less I understand MacBooks. I always hear that Macs are “intuitive” from a lot of people but I really do not know how they are so. I learned how to use a computer on a Mac and I still can’t navigate my way through them. Maybe I’m too dumb for a Mac or don’t “get it” but they certainly aren’t “intuitive” for me.For example, I was playing around on my friend’s 13" MacBook Pro and I couldn’t find out her specs when I tried to look for them. I searched every place I could think of but I failed to find her notebook’s specs. I had to ask her what they were and of course she had no idea. It sounds like I’m being nosey but I only asked in order to get more of an idea of what I should expect for my money since I’m in the market to buy a laptop. So I solved the problem by going to Apple’s website to look up specs and was sorely disappointed. Also, they get ungodly hot, the fans are awful. Do they use Arctic Silver on the CPU + GPU? If they don’t then they really should invest in that. </p>
<p>When I ponder Mac, many things run through my mind. A lot of them are questions. Some of it is criticism. Can a Mac person explain the “intuitive” thing to me?</p>
<p>One thing that I do like about the Macs are Apple’s warranties. But I can get the same warranty coverage from xoticpc with no problem and still get a rocking customized PC for a much better price with specs that would put Mac to shame. I guess I just don’t get it. Really, I’m not trying to play devil’s advocate (okay, maybe a little ;)) but I just want a Mac person to please explain Mac “culture” (or so it is commonly referred to by a few pretentious Mac users). More importantly, just explain the benefit of having an expensive Mac over a PC (besides the virus thing, which I am well aware of and completely fine with). I have asked my Mac user friend, and all she says is that it is because of the “coolness factor.” Please tell me that isn’t why the majority of people buy them. </p>
<p>Anyway, happy notebook shopping. I’ve been looking for the perfect notebook for months. I have finally settled on my beloved ASUS N81VP-D2 with customized specs. I hope you find the right fit too (even if it is a Mac :)).</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I think that Windows 7 is a huge improvement over Vista, especially for laptops. Many desktops have a lot of computing horsepower and fast disks which compensates for the extra overhead of Vista but I find that laptops with slower drives don’t fare as well. Microsoft had a student deal for Windows 7 for $30 when it launched. I’m not sure whether that deal is still available. College Students in CS programs might be able to get Windows 7 for free from their CS departments through a special program that Microsoft runs. Otherwise an OEM copy of Windows 7 runs about $100. I do think that it is a worthwhile upgrade in that you save time on startup and shutdown.</p>
<p>An external DVD is somewhat of a necessity if you want to watch movies from a DVD or if you need to install software that’s shipped on a CD or DVD. If you needed to reinstall Windows, you’d need some kind of device to load it onto the system. One thing to try and ensure is that the external DVD is bootable.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>To get system specs, right-click on the Apple in the upper-left-hand
corner of the screen and select About This Mac. A window pops up in
the middle of the screen with the Processor and Memory details. There
is a button for More Info… Clicking that will get you a Window with
detailed hardware, network and software information.</p>
<p>On Windows, you’d either have to install a third-party program to get
you this information or go to three separate places under the control
panel. The “About” format is fairly standardized with software today
and adding it to the Apple (OS) menu seems intuitive to me compared
to going to the Control Panel. The idea of a Control Panel is to make
changes to settings; it seems to me to make more sense to have the
About in a context of getting information.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Operating systems are typically composed of a lot of programs that are
the operating system and the human interfaces to that operating system.
Application software and tools come from the operating system provider
along with third-party software organizations. The organization that
produces the operating system has a fair amount of control over the look
and feel of the operating system programs and can exert pressure on
software producers to adhere to what they want for the look and feel.</p>
<p>Operating systems organizations also have to deal with legacy issues.
They come out with new releases of their software and have to deal with
compatibility issues.</p>
<p>Apple more tightly controls their hardware ecosystem so they tend to
have fewer issues with drivers compared to Microsoft. Apple also layers
on OS X so that they have a good chunk of the operating system that they
get for free from the open source community.</p>
<p>I do think that it takes some time to get used to the Apple environment
but that it does seem to be more consistent from application to application.
Help is particularly easy to get on using the Mac OS if you are near an
Apple Store. If not, then you can always go to MacForums.com for help.</p>
<p>I used to work for a company that produced hardware, operating systems
and application software. I worked on a middleware product. We had a
command-line interface committee that consisted of all of the project
leaders from software projects. When you wanted to add a command line
interface to your application or change an existing command line
interface, you went through a process by which all of the other
project leaders would review your proposed interface or interface
changes. If your proposal didn’t meet with the expected look-and-feel,
then you had to make changes and try again.</p>
<p>This couldn’t be enforced on third-parties of course. Providing guidelines
to third-party developers could improve consistency.</p>
<p>Apple has been a major innovator in operating systems human factors. We
can see that Microsoft has copied many of Apple’s innovations during the
current decade.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I am unfamiliar with xoticpc. Do they have stores that you can go to to
get personalized service? Is their power adapter consistent with all of
their models going back many years? Can you boot off the hard drive of
another computer?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I’ve used a lot of operating systems over the years and VMS was one of
my favorites. I started using it in the early 1980s as a developer and
I still have an account on a cluster of VMS systems running on the VAX,
Alpha and iTanium architectures. I also use Sun, Hewlett-Packard and
IBM servers from time to time; they typically run some flavor of Unix.</p>
<p>I do feel that there is a quantitative difference between Macs and
Windows PCs and that’s a function of the history of operating system
development, the application software environment and the cohesion
between the hardware platform and operating system. I think that Apple
had a definite edge in human factors innovation - perhaps that has
something to do with their software development culture and history.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I bought a PowerMac for our son many years ago for his first Computing
Course. I also wanted to play around with software development on the
platform. I bought a MacBook Pro for him when he started his CS program
as there was a very strong Unix bias in the early computing courses and
it would mean that he could do his programming assignments on his laptop
instead of needing to go to the computer lab. Most Mac users aren’t
developers though so we are certainly in the minority for priorities.</p>
<p>A coworker with two daughters complained to me about how much time he
was spending cleaning up his daughters’ machines. He had had it with
reinstalling windows due to viruses, spyware and other Microsoft OS
issues (this was several years ago). He switched his family over to
Mac OS X to reduce the vulnerabilities of his systems and his system
management time. I do believe that there are a moderate number of
people that switch to Mac OS X for these reasons.</p>
<p>Coolness is either an external attribute (what others think of you) or
what you think that others will feel about you. There’s nothing wrong
with a purchase based on the coolness factor if there are functional
reasons that justify it.</p>
<p>Our daughter loves her North Face jacket. It is functional and
fashionable and has the coolness factor that a lot of college students
want.</p>
<p>There are those that buy Apple products for the level of service. John
Mauldin (financial commentator and analyst) wrote one of his weekly
letters about a year ago on his experiences with getting a cell phone
repaired. He sent his daughter to get his repaired or replaced. She had
to stand in line for a very long time to get any kind of service and
wasn’t treated well when he tried to get it repaired under warranty. His
daughter suggested an iPhone. Apple provided a high level of presales
consulting and post-sales training in a professional way. He was shocked
at the level of customer service as it is lacking in so many ways today.
I think that he said that he spends several hundred a month on mobile
phone service so the price of the device and the plans wasn’t an issue.
He was looking for good customer service.</p>
<p>I think that Vista drove many customers to Apple. Just poor execution
on Microsoft’s part. Microsoft has been around for a long time and many
of their executives and software engineers have grown wealthy with less
of an incentive to innovate and compete. They had a lot of turnover in
their management ranks lately. Perhaps they’ve turned the corner with
Windows 7.</p>
<p>Wow. Thanks to all. This is a great post. I have learnt about laptops from you people more than i did in my entire school life.
Thanks again!
@ Mr Eagle…that is a great post!</p>
<p>For those of us who are used to PCs, we do NOT find MACs “intuitive.” My SIL is a MAC die-hard. She always has MACs & we try as best we can to help her with her computer issues but sometimes neither we NOR the MAC support folks can help her (e.g. move things from her old MAC address book and e-mail account to her new one). We can’t walk her through fixes since none of us understand MACs well. My BIL also was a MAC person but has switched to PCs & now we can help him when problems arise. </p>
<p>Have heard that Windows 7 is much better than Vista, but still have XP on our machines but may get a netbook that probably will have Windows 7 soon.</p>
<p>Update…
I went to the Apple store to check out the student discount, but it was meager (about $50).</p>
<p>Right now on Amazon there are some sales on the Macbook or the Macbook Pro. Really, it could be a full time job trying to figure out one machine versus another (RAM, media boosters, port this and that, giga-whatevers…urg!). I can feel little blood vessels in my brain popping.</p>
<p>I decided on a Lenovo X version tablet laptop* about two hours ago. Then some of the teenagers that I am feeding and cleaning up after told me that the tablet thing does not get used at all (one of them owns it). I had been excited about Microsoft OneNote (in my head, a kid could take all notes on the tablet, even in math class, then file/organize it all with OneNote and be the best student on campus). I was informed that OneNote “sux”. My whole plan for world domination with the tablet/OneNote combination is now ruined.</p>
<p>I am thinking of getting the MacBook Pro at Amazon’s price ($1149). It qualifies for free two-day shipping. On the other hand, there are some other brands in the $600 range which also qualify.</p>
<p>One more thing…</p>
<p>The college kids in my house this weekend all agreed that most kids do not bring their laptops to class. I was pretty surprised (I assumed otherwise). So why the buzz about portability if this is the case?</p>
<p>Is this the case?</p>
<p>If so, I would think a larger screen would be a better option (nicer for movies and work). If you won’t really be carrying it around, why go for a 13" screen?</p>
<ul>
<li>killer prices on new models at their outlet store, but leave one for me in case I change my mind.</li>
</ul>
<p>I would see what Apple or Smalldog has for refurbished prices= also check [Mac</a> Buyer’s Guide: Know When to Buy Your Mac, iPod or iPhone](<a href=“http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/]Mac”>http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/) for info on product cycles.</p>
<p>I have only bought refurbished for years- and haven’t had a problem they can be quite a bit less expensive and have the same warranty.</p>
<p>The college discounts are usually best in the summertime for Apple.</p>
<p>Students usually don’t use laptops in the classroom but it is nice to be able to bring it to the library or to another student’s dorm or home on visits.</p>