<p>You can like what you like - that’s fine, but I just think it’s sad that there is so much judgment of people on something so irrelevant and superficial as what they look like on the outside.</p>
<p>And I also think it’s pretty sad that being thin and without wrinkels is what’s considered to be the standard of beauty - the race to stay forever young. Why?</p>
<p>I agree with acollegestudent that the question “why would you want to take away from your beauty?” assumes the bearer has the same standard of beauty as you do. I don’t think this assumption is warranted. Many people might think that’s beautiful–there really isn’t a set, universal standard. I myself dont’ find that attractive, but many mainstream, accepted practices (heavily -plucked eyebrows, for instance) are not particularly attractive to me. But I assume the person sporting them finds them pleasing, so I assume that’s the same for nose-ring girl.</p>
<p>Whether YOU care, or that there are millions out there working great jobs with tats and piercings is not the point I am making. The fact of the matter is that there are people who do have hiring power who do care, and getting a job these days that is highly desirable is tough and if it is a position where a lot of people are competing with you, you do not need a possible impediment. These things do bother some people. More people than not if you are looking for jobs in most places.</p>
<p>My son is in the theatre industry, and you would think anything goes, and for the most part, it does. But certain positions even in this industry require conservative dress and demeanor and you’ better be able to keep your tats and piercings under cover. Surprising, but so, as many of his colleagues who are working in that side of the industry will attest. You have to have some common sense about this sort of thing. </p>
<p>Anyone who wants these things should also think about ways that they can be out of sight if necessary, unless you truly don’t care. But be aware that maybe someday you will. I don’t think a wild tattoo across your cheek is a smart idea. On your pack or upper arm where you can keep it private is a whole other thing. </p>
<p>Personally I don’t pay much mind to these things unless they are truly distracting or can be offensive in certain situations. If I managed a white shoe law firm, I would not want a receptionist with 10 piercing visible, form ears to tongue to lip to chin, Nope. For something more casual, I would not care. So it can depend a lot on the circumstance. But in this job market, unless you are some pretty hot stuff, or don’t care, you can be putting limitations on yourself when you do some of these things. Just be aware before doing them. Hiding a huge hole in an enlargened ear lobe or a tattoo encroaching on your face may not be easy to do when it is wise to do so.</p>
<p>No, I get that, cpt. I was just answering the post about why someone would want to “ruin their beauty” as if it was an objective observation.</p>
<p>Yeah, but it’s also a balancing act - yes, having a job is important, but how much of your individuality are you willing to give up to have that job? How much of yourself (and I am not talking just piercings) are you willing to hide? Many places have a certain ‘culture’ or certain expectations (going to happy hour with co-workers every Friday) that you may not like for one reason or another (not being a drinker; simply preferring to spend time wiht your family, etc.). Sooner or later, you have to draw the line, or you will lose all of yourself.</p>
<p>Lol… I find that I look as good as I did at 25 if I don’t wear my glasses when I look in the mirror. </p>
<p>For those here who are condemning people who " judge" others for having gauges, piercings, etc… There are plenty of us who don’t care one way or the other. If you want to create a giant hole in your ear lobe, go for it! Just be aware that there are plenty of employers who DO care. So the reality is, no matter how much you are just being who you are, you are limiting your job prospects. I am not saying that you will not be able to land a job, but there may not be “equal” opportunities. You may never know why you didn’t get that job you were going for- no one has to tell you why. It may not be fair but so it goes. Just don’t complain about the results when you know up-front what the consequences might be.</p>
<p>I have a friend who is a kind of hard core biker (motorcycles). On the weekend she and her husband are in full out gear- kind of tough looking with lots of leather, bandanas, etc. She has many tattoos, but they are all hideable. She is the VP of a small corporation, and during the week, you would never guess about her “alternate” personality. She readily admits that she would not be where she is if she didn’t “conform” during the week, and she also admits that she would not hire someone who didn’t do the same as she would lose customers.</p>
<p>It certainly is nothing more than a choice. The people that I associate with, my kid’s friends…they are all going somewhere. They are accomplished and high achieving. I would generalize that for the most part they do not put their right to look exactly as they would like, show their artistic side on their body–over career goals and social norms. If someone cares about looking how they desire, more than how it appears to an employer and how it may affect their future, then I guess that’s their right to have that as their priority. Kind of sad, though, that having your desired appearance would be that important.</p>
<p>“But it is sad that those restaurant workers you are seeing appear to be making a permanent decision to work in the food service industry. Seems that when you’re in your twenties, you might be hoping for more, for the rest of your life.”</p>
<p>That’s just bizarre. It’s SAD to work in a restaurant? How do you think people get to be executive chefs, general managers and owners of their own restaurants? They START as waiters and servers! One of our dear friends is a GM at a very famous Seattle restaurant. He started in in the food service industry in his teens and worked as a waiter, bartender, etc. Now he’s a successful business owner in addition to his GM job. I’m not sure why you think it’s sad to be a young kid working in a hands-on job that almost always promotes based on experience, in an industry that allows for some level of body modification. </p>
<p>And as others have pointed out, these choices DO allow for other job options. I saw people in two different retail businesses yesterday, one with gauges and one with a full foot tattoo, not covered at all, in very public positions. My D has a teacher with a lip ring, and I’ve seen plenty of office workers with modest piercings or tattoos. I don’t think any of them are sad, but I’m especially wondering why you think kids in restaurant work should be aiming for “something more”. I wasn’t talking about McDonald’s. Have you been to Ivar’s lately?</p>
<p>“And I also think it’s pretty sad that being thin and without wrinkels is what’s considered to be the standard of beauty - the race to stay forever young. Why?”</p>
<p>Because I do not want to become a burden for my family and therefore I choose to invest in my health. Let me answer the question that will inevitably follow - what do no wrinkles and being thin have to do with being healthy? They are the direct result of taking care of your body’s health. I’m not kidding.</p>
<p>^^I have no problem with kids working in the restaurant industry, sseamom. Of course not. I worked as a busperson and waitress for many years, and earned a decent income. My issue was doing something permanently disfiguring that was fine while you were in the restaurant industry, but limited your job options beyond that. Even in the restaurant industry, I’d guess that pierced tongues and full body tattoos would make it difficult to get to the executive level. Am I incorrect? I wasn’t talking about modest piercings and tattoos.</p>
<p>Personally, I’m not of fan of things that can’t be reversed, and in spite of my objections, my oldest d has a tattoo (must be completely covered under scrubs) and</p>
<p>When we were reading about what son should wear to med school interviews, one thing that was often mentioned is that tats needed to be covered. Makes me wonder how a med school would feel if they interviewed someone with large gauges/plugs or unusual facial piercings? </p>
<p>But, since applicants have to submit recent photos of themselves with their applications, maybe an applicant with large gauges or unusual facial piercings may never get an interview?</p>
<p>Each person has to draw the line as to what he/she wants do in terms of expressing individuality. Most jobs, and believe me, I’ve been in some of the most straitlaced rule driven industries have a lot of flexibility in terms of off job life and appearances. They also are a lot more lenient AFTER you get the job. Highly unlikely that a worker holding his own or doing well, would be let go due to a tattoo or piercing, unless it is something pretty much universally distasteful. Again common sense needs to be there. True, that you may not want to work in an environment if the restrictions are too much. There is a balance there. I would not tell anyone to go for jobs where they would clearly not be comfortable and those who are so miserable in job should look for another and think about lowering expenditures if it means a reduction in money Money is truly not all. But I think it’s pretty stupid if a gauge ear thing or tattoo is so danged important to a person, that s/he lets it impede chances for getting jobs and opportunities wanted.</p>
<p>I am all for taking care of health - sunblock, yes, but putting face cream on evey night has NOTHING to do with health. Sooner or later, no matter how healthy you are, you WILL get wrinkles and WILL look older, and there is nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>"The people that I associate with, my kid’s friends…they are all going somewhere. "</p>
<p>And I think it’s sad that going somewhere, in your mind means social conformity.Personally, I admire people who are brave enough to be different and still succeed - people who have the skills and intelligence that is needed to get the job done and are valued because of that, not because of some arbitrary appearance thing. These are the people I prefer to be around, and as I mentioned earlier I don’t even have anything like tattoos or piercings.</p>
<p>"“Why age will take it all away? This one is much more strange than the original question.”</p>
<p>Maybe something about the thin body, smooth skin being replaced by cellulite and wrinkles?"
-are we talking about 80s? Well, in my 80s, I will be more worried about my health care bills, this is true… but now? Being wise and discover that most of it is under your control vs. nature is what it takes. I agree, you can rarely see people in thier 60s having strange things in their ears, there are exceptions but not many, we just do not bother with this stuff any more. It is funny topic anyway, just tell us more about diconnection between generations.</p>
<p>“And I think it’s sad that going somewhere, in your mind means social conformity.Personally, I admire people who are brave enough to be different and still succeed - people who have the skills and intelligence that is needed to get the job done and are valued because of that, not because of some arbitrary appearance thing.”</p>
<p>But that’s not how life works. People judge you based upon appearance, and if you want to have an “in your face” appearance, you will pay for that. Sometimes I see these kids with brightly colored mohawks, looking enraged, staring at people. I wonder if they are thinking, “I don’t care what you think! But…look at me, look at me. look at me!!”</p>
<p>With my job, I can’t do drugs. I can’t have outward piercings or tattoos, my hair must be neatly cut, I wear a uniform that must be neat and clean. I can’t embarrass the company on my time off, by getting arrested or being flaming drunk in a bar. Yes, I give up these rights of individuality to keep my job. I make a lot of money, and I really like my job, it is interesting and challenging. I can’t imagine giving it up because I couldn’t deal with social conformity.</p>
<p>The current crop young people with the tattoos and piercings aren’t at a point yet where they would be GM’s at most restaurants, so I don’t know how limiting their choices will be. What I do know is that the NON-tattooed/pierced current GM’s see fit to hire them for both back and front of house positions. And they will move up from there, just as the GM’s did.</p>
<p>And really, if they have a full sleeve tattoo or large gauges, they’re not looking to be working at any kind of modest place-you’ll see them in the edgier neighborhoods and edgier shops and restaurants in those neighborhoods. If you want to stand out that much, you’re not looking for a conformist job of any kind. And if they’re doing what they want I really don’t think it’s limiting or sad. A lot of us work at jobs we don’t love even WITHOUT the body art.</p>
<p>Everybody have their own life and their own priority. We are way too quick to criticize, while it is completely frutile. The only effective criticism that we can do is toward ourselves, everything else is futile and will result in hostility and absolutely no smallest positive result…so the point is …to provoke hostility…anything else?</p>
<p>That’s precisely the problem - you are comparing behaviors that are not only illegal, but, in my view, wrong - doing drugs, getting arrested (which presumably means doing something bad) to HOW SOMEONE LOOKS, which is just a superficial outward layer.</p>
<p>This is how life works? Yeah, I guess… until it doesn’t. It took a long time for a change to happen where women didn’t have to wear corsets and were allowed to wear pants.</p>
<p>You may be OK with social conformity, but I don’t like it at all when it comes to superficial things. I am actually all for rules (like not doing drugs or committing crime). I love social norms that encourage people to act like decent human beings to each other (like not lying or cheating). But I am very opposed to social conformity when it comes to superficial things, like what people wear or what hobbies they enjoy (aka if it’s OK to talk about sports at work but maybe not stamp collecting, lest you be thought of as weird), the norms that are norms because that’s what everyone else does. </p>
<p>I admire people who don’t blindly conform. Good for them.</p>
<p>“I can’t imagine giving it up because I couldn’t deal with social conformity.”</p>
<p>What if it’s not “couldn’t deal with,” but “My view of conformity isn’t the same as (many) others,” and a conscious choice to do what you love because it allows you to be non-conformist?</p>
<p>My brother has a lot of tattoos, and several ear piercings in each ear. He has long hair. But-he also owns his own contracting company, and has been hired by some of the most conformist people in his state. They are public figures, wealthy business people, historical conservationists. He gets hired because he is very, very good at what he does. He now works solely by word of mouth-friends of former customers and repeat customers. </p>
<p>His ability to design and build amazing things has nothing to do with how much he conforms. His clients recognize that. He chose this line of work so that he could be the kind of person he wanted to be. The only office he has ever worked in is the one in his own home, by design. You probably had an idea of what you wanted when you were just starting out, as did he. You’re both doing what you love, for a nice paycheck. So it’s all good, yes?</p>
<p>I have a friend who is a criminal defense attorney. When she goes to court in certain areas here, she wears her hair a certain way, dresses a certain way and puts in some piercings and maybe even a temporary tattoo. It does make a difference in the results in a jury trial. When she’s in other courts,she looks completely different, stuffed in her dark suit and her hair practically in a bun, and glasses to boot. Oh, yes, it makes a difference. I hardly say she blindly conforms. She conforms with her eyes very wide open.</p>