<p>Thanks for the link, northstarmom! I think both my S and I suffer from this. And I would agree that fainting may not necessarily be from a panic attack or fear. For both S and I, there are very specific situations that seem to trigger feelings of faintness - and interestingly, dissecting animals is not one them. S did faint once in Biology (during a movie relating to human biology) at the beginning of the term, so we feared he would have a lot of problems with the class but he actually got through the dissections ok. We seem to both be effected more by human biology than animal biology. </p>
<p>With my S, we discussed his squeamishness with his teacher who was very cooperative and would have juggled his assignments if needed. The biggest fear was that S might fall and hurt himself so he learned how to watch for the first signs of faintness and then take precautions to prevent himself from fainting or falling - sit down, put his head between his knees, leave the room, tell the teacher. He began to sit close to the door so he could just leave if needed. S’s pediatrician was never overly concerned about this, but I do agree, however, that it is definitely worth discussing with your dr. </p>
<p>I can relate to the doctor or nurse whose “first” experience at certain things makes them squeamish since I am affected similarly; I will begin to feel faint whenever I first visit anyone in a hospital, but after the initial wave, I am fine even during future visits…until the next time I visit a different person in the hospital (when I was much younger I would even feel faint when visiting someone who had just had a baby, but seem to have gotten over this). My thought has always been that there is something about this setting, perhaps the emotional shock of seeing someone close to me hooked up to machines or tubes that somehow unconsciously upsets or “shocks” the system/brain.</p>
<p>Our funny/embarrassing story was the time when S was about 7, got a sliver in his palm that he did not tell us about, and tried to get it out himself. Within 1 day, he ended up with blood poisoning and streaks up to his elbow, so we went to ER. While the dr removed the sliver and washed out the wound, S nearly fainted and that did me in; we both spent several minutes sharing an oxygen mask…</p>
<p>Well, she definitely comes by this honestly, as I get very queasy at certain medical procedures. However, for me, this developed over time, after several bad experiences. She has no problems with shots or needles, and has been hospitalized with asthma several times. I would have never considered a career in science, I’m a math teacher! We’ll have to see if she gets through this, or follows a new set of interests.</p>
<p>Another one to weigh in here on how common it is for medical/science people to have had problems like this with some of their first encounters.</p>
<p>My husband’s partner (cardiologist) said he fainted first day in cadaver lab and received several stitches where he hit the table. My son who thought that blood and guts stuff never bothered him (at least on live people, it never did) worked in a path lab last summer. His first autopsy, he hit the floor. He was very nervous about going back in on his next post, but was so proud of himself when he made it through. (they placed a stool near the table and told him to sit if he felt the least bit faint–said he did that a couple times but didn’t have to leave room).</p>
<p>When I started cadaver work in nursing school–was oh so nervous and thought I might pass out–tell you d. to take deep, slow, controlled breaths–it helps–sometimes people are not hyperventilating, they are actually holding their breath. After a couple weeks in the lab, I was able to bring in dinner with me and eat while we worked.</p>
<p>Another little trick–don’t know if the pig is big enough for this—is to drape something over the part you are not working on–that way it is easier to not think about the “specimen” as a “real” animal.</p>
<p>If the smell of the preserving fluid bothers her, have her put a little dab of Vicks in each nostril to mask the smell.</p>
<p>Mkm56- those are both great ideas. She said that she wants a “calming herbal tea” to drink before class tomorrow. Even if it’s just a placebo, anyone have any ideas? (I feel a little like I’m starting to humor her a little too much, but she was excused from a Spanish test today because the teacher saw her shakiness. This is a girl who really prides herself on her academics, so I thought that was a little alarming.)</p>
<p>Chamomile tea is very calming to the stomach and the nervous system. Nice sweet taste too. Tell her to take deep breaths too. Maybe teach her some quick meditation techniques she could use in the girls room (close her eyes, take deep breaths, clear the mind). Just being aware of your breathing helps…<br>
I had to dissect a cat (with a partner) in high school. I totally freaked out - the teacher let my partner do the whole thing while I watched. He didn’t mind. Still had to take the cat anatomy test and did just fine.<br>
Good luck to your daughter!</p>
<p>Biohelpmom, even if the tea (or whatever she would like to try) is a placebo effect–hey, if it works—who cares? One other thing --don’t know what time her class is, but if it is a time of day when her blood sugar may be a little low, she might try a little snack of protein of some sort before class–maybe a protein bar, or some cheese—sometimes if the blood sugar is a little low, it seems the tendency for a response like hers is greater.</p>
<p>Another thought–you might talk over with Dr. and keep it as an emergency reserve. One friend of mine had a child that absolutely panicked when he had to speak in front of the class–sounds like your d.–he would have the “shakes”, get nauseous, once fainted–and of course after the first time he did this the anxiety just went up a few notches. His Dr. gave him a beta blocker drug that he used only when he had to do public speaking–it blocks those physiologic anxiety responses of the body somewhat. He used it for a few times until his confidence was built up and then found he didn’t need it at all.</p>
<p>can’t help you here both me and my son suffer from the same symptoms. We both like things that don’t move by themselves. I don’t even eat anything that moves by itself.</p>
<p>D2 is interested in biological sciences and took over when the football players in her marine biology class were squealing with horror over dissecting the squid. Didn’t want to sign up for the anatomy class because of the cat dissection…although I suggested that maybe she could get extra credit for donating our crotchety unfriendly cats that do nothing but sleep all day (JK, everyone!!!) D1 took intro to laboratory science class as a 7th grader at CTY—she was OK with the dissections (frog, fetal pig), until they got to the Cow eye…that night the dorm dining room served eye of round (beef) steak. She called to make sure it was OK with me for her to spend money to order out pizza!!! I’m the squeamish one of this bunch—there’s no way I could do half of what they’ve done already. Also, as others have mentioned, I believe that NC and PA are both states that have “opt out” forms that can be signed for dissections in science classes, btw…</p>
<p>My husband just talked to the teacher, and he offered a video watching alternative, away from the class. She doesn’t want to be separated from the class, so will try to tough it out. This is a big New England prep school, where they tend to be sensitive to individual needs, but have lots and lots of smart kids to deal with. Interestingly, the pig has no smell- they don’t use formeldahyde any more?</p>
<p>Biohelpmom, I’m laughing, not at your D, but gentle memories of myself at her age. I had a terrible phobia for frogs, and guess what our big bio project in high school was? We were even supposed to take the carcass home, boil it down and mount the bones! No way!. I made it through the dissection, but I must confess I bought my first cousin’s skeleton from 2 years before for $20. I got it with all the labels removed (the only way my teacher Mom would let me do this, she didn’t want the pickled frog boiled in her house either) and relabelled all the bones. I got my just desserts, too, my cousin made a 98 on it and I made a 96.</p>
<p>Oh, what do I do for a living today? I’m a pathologist, and among other things, I do autopsies, so I’ve come a long way.</p>
<p>Chamomile tea, deep slow breaths through her mouth, and actually doing the dissection (no better medicine than getting involved in what you are doing, helps you forget what you are doing). Sit if you feel the least bit faint.
It sounds to me like she began hyperventilating, as well as having a vasovagal response. We see this a lot with teens coming in to get blood drawn. Boys are generally much worse than girls, the girls are vocal with their squeamishness, and more accustomed to blood and lower Bps. The guys seem to not say much, or even feel much until their blood pressures bottom out and they are passed out on the floor. The shaking, though, sounds like hyperventilation to me. She can abort an episode by sitting down and taking deliberate slow breaths, breathing in and out, through her mouth, to a slow count of 5.</p>
<p>I do not think they use Formalin anymore, we still do, though, by the bucketload. Amazingly, there is no evidence of excess cancer deaths in pathologists that could be blamed on the formalin, but it is bad if you have respiratory problems.</p>
<p>This reminds me of my daughters freshman year project in bio.
I seem to remember experiments on crayfish- and her telling me about the custodian catching hers going down the hall.
Afterward I believe they made stew.</p>
<p>( my D used to faint when she would get her TB test every year- )</p>
<p>I fainted twice in nursing school and once more after graduation while assisting a Dr with a dressing change (was newly pregnant at the time so I get a free pass for that one!). Oddly enough, the cat dissection in high school was no problem (my partner got Mono and I had to do the whole thing). Don’t worry, it can be overcome…practice,practice.</p>
<p>Biohelpmom,
I am late to this discussion but my sons had the fetal pig dissection this year and I know that there were one or more students who did not want to participate. As many others have mentioned, there are numerous excellent online resources with “virtual” dissections. I hope your daughter’s day turns out well, but tell her that she shouldn’t feel that she needs to force herself to do the dissection. There are lots of other highly academic kids who are excused from doing the actual dissection.</p>
<p>Brings back bad memories! I switched my major from Physical Therapy to Nursing because PTs had to dissect cadavers. I didn’t think I was up to it. Nurses only had to do cats. I had no problem with it. After our morning class, though, we went to the cafeteria, where they served chicken. My classmates carefully dissected the chicken, naming all the parts. To this day I can’t eat chicken off the bone - I buy boneless breasts. </p>
<p>I don’t have an especially weak stomach, but I did have to leave the operating room during my first observation of abdominal surgery. I still can’t believe how many parents I’ve met over the years who run away from their injured children, because they can’t stand the sight of blood. C’mom - these are your kids!</p>
<p>Binx…usually H is the one who has always taken over when our kids got injured…starting w/ an episode when D1 was in the ER at age 2…I was pregnant, very emotional, always been squeamish…H and dr. both made me leave the room. In the instances where I had no choice but dealing w/ the injury situation, I handled it by taking deep breaths, making like I was calm, cool and collected in front of the kids, and later dissolving into a puddle on the floor. Your chicken story made me laugh–my mother is appalled that I have never, ever, cut up a chicken. Raw poultry is one of the most God-awful things in this world. And, I rarely eat steaks out, because I cannot remotely handle eating them unless they are fully cooked. Almost (but not quite) enough to make me a vegetarian.</p>
<p>Back to Biomom----Please keep us updated on how your D does with this fetal pig business. I would, however, make sure that you keep pork off the menu for quite some time. EWWWWWW!</p>
<p>I remember getting through the frog dissection by pretending it was just a plastic “thing.” </p>
<p>In college, as an animal science major, we had repro lab with reproductive tracts from the slaughterhouse to work with – no problem except that I needed to sign up for veggie dinner for nights after lab. Just couldn’t face meat afterwards!</p>
<p>One of my suggestions is to not focus on how ‘gross’ the stuff is, but to rather focus on how incredible it is that it works the way it does. In other words to focus on the function and beauty of the organism, even if you have to talk yourself in to seeing it that way!</p>